Magic the Gathering Arena

[Jason Liang]

Dino tribe is just too expensive for Frenzy besides Wayward Swordtooth and perhaps Ghalta. And the dino support cards (Commute with Dinosaurs and Thunderherd Migration) are ill-fitted with Frenzy.

i meant frenzy + swordtooth, no other dinos in the deck

edit
this is the deck:

10 Mountain (RIX) 195
8 Forest (RIX) 196
2 Evolving Wilds (RIX) 186
2 Rootbound Crag (XLN) 256

4 Experimental Frenzy (GRN) 99
4 Wayward Swordtooth (RIX) 150
4 Treasure Map (XLN) 250
4 Shock (M19) 156
3 Lava Coil (GRN) 108
3 Llanowar Elves (M19) 314
3 Lightning Strike (XLN) 149
3 Light Up the Stage (RNA) 107
2 Dryad Greenseeker (M19) 178
2 Banefire (M19) 130
2 Fight with Fire (DAR) 119
2 Runaway Steam-Kin (GRN) 115
1 Shivan Fire (DAR) 142
1 Karn, Scion of Urza (DAR) 1

tell me what i'm doing wrong

I think the main problem is the mana. You are trying to do a mix of the RDW Frenzy and the green Frenzy build, but for consistency you have to stick to one or the other - the current Frenzy builds are basically mono-color that splash red for 4 Frenzies and maybe another spell (like Heroic Reinforcements for Boros Frenzy). So if you are going Swordtooths, you should take out all the other red spells and Frenzy is your only red spell (and maybe some of the new Gruul spells). Steam-kin especially needs all red to be a true mana engine. Then, playing Frenzy in Pirates, I feel like Frenzy should be closer to 26 lands than 22. Frenzy is a mana hungry build and you don't want to miss land drops in your first few turns.

I would do this~

1 Mountain (RIX) 195
17 Forest (RIX) 196
4 Stomping Grounds (RNA)
4 Rootbound Crag (XLN) 256
4 Treasure Map (XLN) 250
4 Experimental Frenzy (GRN) 99
4 Rhythm of the Wild (RNA) 201
3 Wayward Swordtooth (RIX) 150
1 Gruul Spellbreaker (RNA) 179
2 Steel Leaf Champion (DOM)
2 Dryad Greenseeker (M19) 178
2 Kraul Harpooner (RIX) 136
1 Silhana Pathfinder (RNA) 141
4 Llanowar Elves (M19) 314
4 Fanatical Firebrand (RIX) 101
3 Thrash/ Threat (RNA) 229

Not sure about Silhana Pathfinder, just tossing it out as an idea but there's probably a better 2cc or 1cc drop (like Druid of the Cowl or Merfolk Branchwalker or a 4th Thrash). 4 Firebrands is also probably too many. I think Firebrand is way better than Pelt Collector but for the mana it should probably be a 2/2 split.

Alternatively, what would be REALLY ambitious is to combine Experimental Frenzy with Wilderness Reclamation. Not sure if the support is there but Swift Warden is a green 3cc 3/3 with flash, while Snapping Sailback is 5cc 4/4 with flash, Spore Swarm... yeah probably not working with g/r.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Jason Liang]

Put together this Gruul Frenzy and tested it about 15 matches today. Didn't want to commit too many rare wildcards although I did wildcard 3 Treasure Maps.

3 Treasure Map (XLN) 250
4 Experimental Frenzy (GRN) 99
3 Rhythm of the Wild (RNA) 201
1 Ghalta, Primal Hunger (RIX) 130
1 Grand Warlord Radha (DAR) 195
1 Wayward Swordtooth (RIX) 150
1 Steel Leaf Champion (DAR) 182
4 Merfolk Branchwalker (XLN) 197
3 Druid of the Cowl (M19) 177
1 Dryad Greenseeker (M19) 178
2 Kraul Harpooner (GRN) 136
1 Thorn Lieutenant (M19) 203
4 Llanowar Elves (DAR) 168
3 Pelt Collector (GRN) 141
4 Fanatical Firebrand (RIX) 101
1 Sprouting Renewal (GRN) 145
1 Thrash // Threat (RNA) 229
2 Rootbound Crag (XLN) 256
3 Stomping Ground (RNA) 259
4 Timber Gorge (M19) 258
12 Forest (RIX) 196
1 Mountain (RIX) 195

a. Definitely needs a set of Thrashes for board control
b. Definitely needs a full set of Stomping Grounds and Rootbound Crags
c. Definitely needs more Steel Leaf Champions and Wayward Swordtooths. Wasn't too hard to Ascend the Swordtooths.
d. Druids of the Cowl are petty terrible when you don't draw Experimental Frenzy (see e.)
e. Despite 4 Frenzies, 4 Branchwalkers and 3 Treasure maps, still had many games where I didn't find a Frenzy
f. Pelt Collectors also rather mediocre. On the other hand, Thorn Lieutenant was legit especially with Rhythm of the Wild
g. Firebrands were ok but sometimes I didn't have enough sources of red to easily cast them

Overall I think the build needs work. It's slower than Rakdos or RDW by far, and depending on Frenzy as the only form of card advantage is a large flaw. But really the problem is that Green is midrange and Frenzy is not a midrange build.

 

[Jason Liang]

Jason Liang dont you feel the need of warlods fury in your pirate deck?

Both Crash Through and Warlord's Fury are interesting options for Pirates but you really can't run that many spells, and those spells should be Cannonades and Drill Bits. Of the two I'd rather play Crash Through. You could always run more Pirates with First Strike (Daredevils and Rigging Runners) or give them Double Strike with Bravado. Trample is much more valuable and combos just as good if not better with Cannonade.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Scruffy]

anyway, the dino deck is shit, and i don't have much time to play these days, but if anyone cares, i easily got platinum with this homemade brew:

20 Swamp (RIX) 194
3 Memorial to Folly (DAR) 242
1 Arch of Orazca (RIX) 185
***
4 Duress (M19) 94
4 Treasure Map (XLN) 250
4 Golden Demise (RIX) 73
3 Diamond Mare (M19) 231
3 Plaguecrafter (GRN) 82
3 Fell Specter (M19) 96
3 The Eldest Reborn (DAR) 90
3 Ravenous Chupacabra (RIX) 82
3 Vampire Neonate (M19) 124
2 Burglar Rat (GRN) 64
2 Vraska's Contempt (XLN) 129
2 Twilight Prophet (RIX) 88
2 Doom Whisperer (GRN) 69

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Teferi/nexus players with that new land untapping enchantment are killing my enjoyment of the game. They take 7 turns in a row if you don't kill them instantly since they can just magnify all their fucking mana and run a ton of cycle cards so they're always pulling in more nexus of fate, and their only win condition is "I'm going to stand here and jerk off in front of you for 40 minutes until you finally concede out of boredom and I can cum".

 

[illuknisaa]

You could you know concede earlier.

 

[Berekän]

You could you know concede earlier.

t. blue player

 

[spectre]

Sometimes, it's fun to play it through. I once killed the faggot's only win condition (Warrant // Warden iirc) and he just stood there like an ass recycling his entire library and eventually conceded.
It's nice that the client currently blinks the program icon when your action is required. Makes it easier to go alt tab on the goddamned thinkers.

Play Unmoored Egos if you see that a lot, last two days I mostly saw one million mono red variants, with an odd WW and jeskai drakes.

But yeah, I'm not that big fan of Nexus of Fate. For a moment I thoought it was a genuine design mistake, but it appears they went all the way with this shit giving it addiitonal Root Snares etc.
When it comes to high mana wincons, I think Approach of the second sun was miles better.

With Nexus+Azcanta+ Magic Nigger you just wank with your own cards for an inordinate amount of time. I think Lich Mastery Rainbow is a much better endless turn combo because it doesn't durdle around too much. Two turns should be sufficient to roll up
a sufficiently big Bananafire or Explosion, and I sometimes will sit through the ordeal because that actually feels satisfying.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[illuknisaa]

You can type the card name partially and it filters the list as you go. It works the same as mtgo or xmage.

 

[spectre]

I'm not 100% sure if it shows the list of "seen" cards, like it does on creature type selection, been ages since I played it and it didn't back then.
You don't get to punch in an invalid card name. But apart from planeswankers (if you can remember which Lilianna or Ajani are the playable you're a better man than me) it's not that hard.

Where it gets a bit tedious is having to search all the relevant zones and clicking the stuff. I've seen some guy copy it with 1000 year storm and it took a good while.

Still, like I said, it's a card you mainboard if there's one particular card you absolutely hate and want to make a point about it. Other than that, it's sideboard material.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Play Unmoored Egos if you see that a lot

I was actually thinking about how Dimir might be alright against Teferi shit. Thought erasure to pre-counterspell, regular counterspells, discard shit to help keep his hand low despite a ton of draw, etc. Unfortunately I'm not confident enough in that to want to burn wildcards on exploring it more. Only problem of course is you'd probably face plant against almost any other deck. Was also thinking about Izzet with the smug fucking dragon so you could keep fucking with your opponent as he's jerking off but he'd probably just eat a Vraska's contempt or something.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Jason Liang]

Dimir's proven to be the worst of the GRN guilds. Too slow, too much wasted mana without affecting the board, and not enough offense.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[spectre]

Yeah, Unmoored Ego does that to people.
It requires a bit of skill to actually pick stuff that'll make the opponent's deck fall apart, but generally speaking, offing a nexus or teferi pretty much makes it game over for decks with only a handful winconditions.
I had one used against me several times, and people plucked irrelevant shit, like Curious Obsession or Treasure Maps, sometimes even missing entirely.

The problem with UB is that it primarily works as an anti-control color combination while not being particularly agressive. The current arena environment is overrun by fast aggro which gives discard decks a hard time.
This may change in time, as I've seen a bunch of control builds that utterly massacre mono red, courtesy of maindeck revitalizes and absorbs.

An interesting approach that I've seen used UBR, dumped its entire hand really fast (drill bits, vicious rumors, etc.) while blocking and dealing damage with Electrostatic Barrier, then mopped up with an adapted Pteromander.

 

[Squid]

Dimir's proven to be the worst of the GRN guilds. Too slow, too much wasted mana without affecting the board, and not enough offense.

I don't play standard (besides now starting Arena without spending money) so I really wouldn't know the answer to this but was Dimir ever good? I started in 2008 so Ravnica wasn't too old, and I've been active during both returns. I've never seen much from Dimir cards. Glimpse the Unthinkable and Mind Funeral are the only cards I hear people talk about as if it was impressive.

 

[Jason Liang]

In the previous meta the Dimir decks that worked were running full sets of Doom Whisperer and Eldest Reborn, while using a ton of discard and occasional counterspell to make sure those stick. The problem is that Eldest Reborn ended up proving to be a mediocre 5cc spell for Golgari at least (too slow, sometimes does jack shit) and discard is in a way a losing proposition since you are spending mana to trade 1 for 1 when the opponent doesn't spend any. Counterspells OTOH SOMETIMES come out ahead manawise (but can't deal with the occasional Carnage Tyrant), while removal generally does (but loses value to enters play/ dies effects, planeswalkers, tokens and stuff like History of Benalia).

Dimir in GRN didn't get enough questions to ask outside of Doom Whisperer (I've yet to see either Thief of Insanity or Nightveil Predator work consistently), compared with Izzet which as I've vented before should not be did get the best creatures in the previous meta.

I have a soft spot for Dimir. Back in high school my casual deck (my competitive deck was Necro) was Hypnotic Specter + Time Elemental control. U/B has certainly had peaks through the past 25 years, people fondly remember Recoil, Probe, Dr. Teeth, Undermine and even most recently Scarab God and Hostage Taker. I even have fond memories of Ramierez de Pietro and Sivitri Scarzam who were the first legends I ever owned. I was pretty excited about Thought Erasure but one card doesn't make a deck and next set WotC went ahead and supplanted in with Drill Bit.

 

[spectre]

was Dimir ever good?

There was that thing called Psychatog and it was one mean cunt. I really miss it.

Unless you're referring to Arena metas. UB control was briefly a thing when WUR control was all over the place, UB pirates was also pretty decent back in Ixalan block got me consistent wins when the meta was all about dinos. then Scarab God came round and the meta was all that vs. hazoret RDW for a time.

 

[Squid]

was Dimir ever good?

There was that thing called Psychatog and it was one mean cunt. I really miss it.

Unless you're referring to Arena metas. UB control was briefly a thing when WUR control was all over the place, UB pirates was also pretty decent back in Ixalan block got me consistent wins when the meta was all about dinos. then Scarab God came round and the meta was all that vs. hazoret RDW for a time.

I mostly meant in a sense that the guild was relevant in Standard. I know UB can be good but I was wondering if Dimir themselves ever had much impact in a format. I do remember someone mentioning mill being (more) viable due to Glimpse and Mind Funeral though but I don't know if they said it was particularly good. Like has Dimir during the times any Ravnica set helped UB much enough to make it competitively viable? Or as a guild, do their guild cards really outshine more other guilds' cards than not?

I have some clue about it but I primarily play EDH where if you're aren't going infinite, mill is probably useless or just annoying your opponents. What's good in standard is usually something I'm informed of and know very surface level things.

 

[spectre]

Can't really help you here, last time I fondled cardboard was around Onslaught/Judgment so official guilds and tri-color combos weren't a thing. Then I came back for Origins in Magic Duels and MTGArena.

 

[Steezus]

Has anybody a remotely competitive Orzhov deck with some of the new cards?

I'd love to play BW, but I can't seem to build a deck that performs adequately.

I tried this Divine Visitation deck and it's really fun when it works, but often it's too slow for RDW and any Teferi variation consistently pushes my shit in.