Inactive [LP CYOA] Overlord

[Baltika9]

That's the update I was referring to.

In the chaotic battle, you see seven mages chanting, preparing an unknown spell. They are being defended from your wolves by a group of well-armoured guards and a woman wearing a cloak similar in pattern to yours – a commander, perhaps?

It struck me as odd that we haven't noticed their more ornately dressed commander sooner. It might have been that she was staying back to coordinate her mages and delegated the combat to her junior officers. Or maybe she was handling an unexpected development in the rear, like a demon tearing her soldiers apart.

I find it very unlikely that they would have two secret weapons - one that can cause physical wounds and bypass the Titanium Armor and the other that can affect the mind and bypass Magical Defences (?).

I don't think they had two. Maybe the thing that wounded her is the same thing that drove her nuts, like a ritual dagger or parasite?
We don't have enough data to speculate accurately, but I think this is how it happened:
Rin goes to harass the rear flank, commander reacts and pulls out her trump card to stop Rin, and then returns to the field.
Now we're cleaning up the mess.

 

[Nevill]

Rin is too heavy. She'd sink through the roof.

That's inexcusable. We should advise her to go on a diet.

It struck me as odd that we haven't noticed their more ornately dressed commander sooner.

That's the first time we paid attention to how the soldiers were organized, yes. I don't think she went anywhere else.

I guess we'll see once we question Rin.

 

[Baltika9]

That's funny because the person that commits evil acts rarely recognizes himself as evil. Pragmatic, practical - perhaps, but they rarely have the self-awareness to look at their actions and say 'that probably wasn't very nice'. For them, there is always an explanation, a reason why they do things.

Don't we all though?
But here's another angle: one doesn't need to be a genius, or a monk seeking perfection through introspection to understand that ordering the torture and execution of prisoners is a morally bad thing. But he can be callous enough to not give a shit about the suffering he causes, so long as the end result benefits him.
Pretty much what happened with the interrogation: we got what we wanted in the end and didn't really care about the prisoners in the end. Erdrick's only reaction was incredulity at how badly Rin messed up.

 

[lightbane]

That's inexcusable. We should advise her to go on a diet.

Plate armors aren't known for being light, you know (mithril bullshit doesn't count). However, her armor and weaponry is magically made of her wing stuff, which themselves are made of shadow. Shadow is weightless, therefore her armor and weapon should be weightless as well and therefore useless... Uuuh, forget it. Let's say it's magic raping physics and call it a day. Also, Erd will most certainly be too busy checking which limbs and organs of his are still functioning after the brutal, one-sided beatdown that he's going to receive. Hopefully he's not horribly disfigured to the point of being mostly non-functional or worse, losing his family jewels, if you know what I mean.
Either way, I'll wait the update with eagerness (and hope for the best).

PS: Just to know, treave, do you have an idea in mind of how many chapters this CYOA will have?

 

[treave]

PS: Just to know, treave, do you have an idea in mind of how many chapters this CYOA will have?

I have a rough idea of the general plot progression, but not how many chapters it will take. If I were to guess, maybe about 15, with 20+ updates per chapter. Could be shorter if/when I lose interest, longer if things don't feel draggy.

 

[Bibbimbop]

Our betrayal of our friends to the Demon Lord is mentioned as 'evil' more often than the all the slaughter we do with our own hands. I wonder if it isn't because it was a full retard option that just can't be explained away - so people think that's 'evil' simply because it just can't be mistaken for anything else.

You unwittingly demonstrate the answers to your own questions. Why is one evil action mentioned more than the others? Why didn't you correctly state the breadth of the real betrayal in the beginning chapter? The two questions have the same answer.

We didn't betray our friends. We betrayed an entire kingdom in which we had spme friends. That's a key distinction in scope. When it came time for you to remember what we did back then, your mind doesn't register the larger scope of betraying an entire kingdom, because that is just a boring and faceless fact. Our friends had names and had bantered and flirted with us, so they were real characters. The people killed in the larger betrayal of the kingdom had no names. The same thing is also true afterward. The people killed since then have been nameless mooks, too, including the poor saintly soldiers that we evilly turned to stone... just before they planned to rape little children. Man, we're so evil for killing nameless mooks about to molest little children. I can't understand why people would point out the evil in betraying named friends (forget about an entire kingdom) over the killing of nameless child molesters on a murderous raid. Both seem equally evil!

Face it, the betrayal was the last really interesting path chosen and the last choice that caused an upheaval in named characters. That's the real reason that it gets mentioned more.

between two closest allies

When did Rin become a close ally? Was it somewhere that I failed to read? She seems like an open frenemy that cannot betray us in any real sense, because she never pledged for us...

“Very well… Erdrick Mercant. My eyes shall be on you until the day I may regain the legacy of Demon King Kimaris, my departed father. I shall guard you from harm until that day comes to pass, as the Demon King Agares guarded his enemy’s children until he could harvest the precious gems that were their eyes."

The contractual length of her vow is until the day that she can regain the legacy of her father... whatever that means. It's pretty open-ended. She didn't say "six months" or something fixed. The contractual catalyst for breaking her pact is regaining her father's legacy, which probably means an opportunity to devour your heart, and surely the offer doesn't mean patiently helping you in a stable long-term relationship to build an empire and cult surrounding you and develop your powers to the point that you are beyond her ability to harvest whatever "precious gems" that she wants. There's a very short lifespan for a relationship in which you can both be equally powerful, and her stated intention is to watch you like an enemy's child who exists for harvesting.

Amid all this supposition about farfetched and unknown things, it behooves us to consider what is known: Rin is not a close or even a sworn ally. If anything she swore that we were enemies watching each other. Even if she is being controlled by others right now, she will still harvest you one day when she is more powerful or you are temporarily weakened. The day that you seem to be gaining too much power to be harvested, she will also be forced to act out of fear.

Given the openly stated intentions on which this lovely partnership was made... it could be more trouble than it is even worth. Why not just level up on her carcass and move on?

 

[Baltika9]

You're absolutely right, Gobblecock. She's flat out saying that she's keeping an eye on us until she finds the perfect moment to strike. And our reaction to her offer is no better:

Stifling her laughter, Rinnefiela composes herself and says, “Very well… Erdrick Mercant. My eyes shall be on you until the day I may regain the legacy of Demon King Kimaris, my departed father. I shall guard you from harm until that day comes to pass, as the Demon King Agares guarded his enemy’s children until he could harvest the precious gems that were their eyes.I shall not betray your trust unless it is broken first through your own actions. Will you reciprocate?” She offers her hand to you earnestly. Rinnefiela blushes, seeming to understand the awkwardness of the situation. “It is tradition,” she mutters. "An oath of partnership." You could be mistaken, but it almost sounds like a proposal of some sort. Or at least a business deal. And she does not even have the foresight to plant magical compulsion into the terms of the deal. This should be easy to ditch if you change your mind later.

Scratching the back of your head, you say, “Alright, alright. I, Erdrick Mercant, former Hero of the Seven Kingdoms and third son of the Mercant family, hereby swear that my eyes shall be on you, Rinnefiela Kimaris, until the day you regain the legacy of your father, Demon King Kimaris. I shall guard you from harm until that day comes to pass, and keep your trust for as long as you keep mine.” You take her fingers gently, lower your head, and kiss the back of her hand.

All of this specific wording literally says: I'm in this while you're useful to me, no further. For her, it's until she reclaims her father's legacy, whatever that means (maybe she wants to eat our heart, maybe she wants to become the demon queen).
Our first thought was, 'what a sucker, I can ditch this whenever I want.' Something to think about, at any rate.
I'm starting to get way too complacent with this LP, missing out on all of the important details.

Why not just level up on her carcass and move on?

Because the majority doesn't want to play a text based Diablo game without towns or merchants, which is fair enough.

 

[FrankHamilton]

The contractual length of her vow is until the day that she can regain the legacy of her father... whatever that means. It's pretty open-ended. She didn't say "six months" or something fixed. The contractual catalyst for breaking her pact is regaining her father's legacy, which probably means an opportunity to devour your heart

Or when she marries us. Don't be surprised if you start seeing black widow motifs.

 

[Nevill]

When did Rin become a close ally?

Somewhere when she swore an oath to protect us for an indefinite amount of time.

She was consistently portrayed as naive and inexperienced, as well as someone who takes pride in her family's word, so I have a reason to believe that her oath is much more binding for her than it is for us. She can't and won't weasel out of the deal.

Unless you think that her cluelessness as to how the world works is in fact an elaborate act to make us complacent.

She seems like an open frenemy that cannot betray us in any real sense, because she never pledged for us...

Except she did.

The contractual length of her vow is until the day that she can regain the legacy of her father... whatever that means.

Yes. Which is pretty much forever, since there is currently no known way of reclaiming that legacy.

which probably means an opportunity to devour your heart

Wrong. She said she has no need of our heart because there is no guarantee that it retains the qualities of her father's.

she will still harvest you one day when she is more powerful or you are temporarily weakened.

It was stated that she is already more powerful. However, she can't take what she needs by force.

This is a typical alliance of convenience, but with no particular ending in sight it might as well be a genuine one if you treat it accordingly. It is much more likely to end in marriage than with a fight to the death.

But I know that for the edgy rapelord to even have a chance of succeeding one should ignore all the context and misinterpret all cues, so I am more thinking aloud than arguing.

 

[Bibbimbop]

until the day I may regain the legacy of ... my departed father

Yes. Which is pretty much forever, since there is currently no known way of reclaiming that legacy.

Doing a sloppy job of parsing a demon's pact is a notoriously ill-fated mistake. How would you know the duration? The wording itself is vague, so to speak of "no known ways" is to pretend that the meaning is clear to you. She will decide what her father's legacy is and how to attain it. To consume physically the remnants of his essence. To train her power other ways to similar levels above all other beings. To gather under her banners a similar number of minions. To learn the super secret recipe to his fabulous chili con carne dish that won the interplanar bake-off three centuries in a row. Whatever. She can choose the meaning of her vow, because it's vague. You stating that it means forever now and that she can't choose an easier definition is merely your own wish. As a general rule, though, nothing is forever. If your default assumption about something is that it will last basically forever, then you have started out on a false principle that nature abhors. It's also the most boring interpretation, btw. Pick up any play of Shakespeare, and there's a betrayal or at least a build up to being at cross-purposes.

Wrong. She stated she has no need of our heart because there is no guarantee that it retains the qualities of her father's.

Her statement did not specify our angelic little heart when she said "I don't need a human heart" and then spoke about "no guarantees" of our heart having her father's power. Not to say there is "no likelihood" or "no reason to try it out" but just a simple "no guarantees" that it would help her to consume it. We clearly had already transcended human form when she mentioned that she didn't need a human heart, and she knows the exact circumstances how that happened: by consuming something that she regarded as hers. It's willfully naive to switch "no need for a human heart" wishfully into "no need for our heart" at this point. Her alternatives were few. After asking "would you?" to the possibility that we would hand over our heart, either she mentioned "no need for human hearts" and could follow us closely and study secretly our nature over time to reclaim the powers from us, or she could confess openly that she planned to get back the obvious transfer of power from her father to us in any way necessary, and then she would have to follow behind us at a greater distance and more animosity.

She sees that we took her father's power. I've seen blood-related families torn apart because one son takes the larger share of an inheritance, let alone some outside jackass wandering into the reading of the will and randomly picking up the whole estate. She is with us, in her own words, until she can figure out the mechanic by which that power can be passed again to its rightful heir. That's not a vow until forever. If she needs to downplay the chances of an ultimate confrontation in order to more easily study us and the nature of the power transfer, she has managed that without really even committing to "eternal friendship" or even "friendship one minute past usefulness"

I shall guard ... as the Demon King Agares guarded his enemy’s children until he could harvest the precious gems that were their eyes

It is much more likely to end in marriage than with a fight to the death

one should ignore all the context and misinterpret all cues

Gotcha. I ignored context and missed cues like "I'm going to guard you the way that a livestock is guarded for harvesting" so I failed to grasp that this was headed toward marriage.

 

[lightbane]

What is true though is that Rin is not giving the respect Erd deserves and, in fact, she despises his orders most of the time. It wouldn't be bad to teach her who's the boss here, before something bad happens in the long term.

Also, considering how much effort and resources were spent to ensure the prince's demise, it is quite clear that someone from Methuss wants him dead for good. Whoever is the culprit will most certainly try to kill him again in the future, so if for whatever reason we take too long to go to Yuria, it may be too late to cash in that reward.

On the other hand, the moment we step inside and meet the prince and his family, that conspirator will be REALLY interested in us, becoming a target ourselves. However, if he/she is smart, there's a chance the conspirator will try to make us join his/her side to murder the prince (although that doesn't rule out the possibility he/she tries to kill us anyway to cover his tracks). That's something we'll have to take into consideration at some point. With a little of luck we'll have managed to find out a way to better hide our non-human features by that point. Lastly, I say that whenever someone from outside the goblin village ask us our name, we answer "Adahn" just for kicks .

 

[Nevill]

Doing a sloppy job of parsing a demon's pact is a notoriously ill-fated mistake.

No less ill-fated than trying to twist Rin into something she isn't.

She will decide what her father's legacy is and how to attain it. To consume physically the remnants of his essence. To train her power other ways to similar levels above all other beings. To gather under her banners a similar number of minions. To learn the super secret recipe to his fabulous chili con carne dish that won the interplanar bake-off three centuries in a row. Whatever. She can choose the meaning of her vow, because it's vague.

Unless she defined it beforehand... oh, wait!

“Regardless, you took my father’s heart. It was the culmination of his work. It is his legacy, and as his daughter, it belongs to me.”

The legacy of her father is what he worked on. Could it be the famous chili con carne dish?

"Father never shared the full details of his work with me, but I can hazard a guess at what did happen. He was looking for a way to turn humans back into their original form.” She does not seem overly surprised, but a troubled expression creases her elegant brow.

“By original form, you mean…”

“Demons, of course. The superior life form. You humans are just degraded devolutions of our stock,” she says arrogantly.

I guess not.

So it isn't as vague as you make it sound to be. Until she learns how to resume her father's work, she will stick with us, to the best of her abilities.

She has no clue how to do it, though, and it will be a long time until we figure it out. By then I expect the nature of our relationship to change.

You stating that it means forever now and that she can't choose an easier definition is merely your own wish. As a general rule, though, nothing is forever.

No, I am stating that it is undefined and is not subject to change in the foreseeable future due to Rin's personality and our circumstances.

For now, the alliance is genuine. By the time we arrive to the point where we can part ways as she figures out how to do what her father intended to do, there might not be a reason to change anything.

If, y'know, we don't do something to screw this up, which I see quite a few voters are eager to do.

Pick up any play of Shakespeare, and there's a betrayal or at least a build up to being at cross-purposes.

Any potential betrayal is much more likely to originate from our side.

Her statement did not specify our angelic little heart when she said "I don't need a human heart" and then spoke about "no guarantees" of our heart having her father's power.

You are splitting hairs. Time and time again you are taking the literal meaning of the words and ignore the context they were spoken in.

Her referring to us as a human was meant as an insult - it was quite apparent that we were not a human by that point, and she spoke about our heart. Human or angelic, it does not matter.

Not to say there is "no likelihood" or "no reason to try it out" but just a simple "no guarantees" that it would help her to consume it.

Yes, she might try gouging our heart as a last resort if we ditch her. It would literally be the last resort, for if it doesn't work, the legacy would be lost to her forever. She will try to avoid that outcome at all costs. That is pretty much the reason for that oath - if she wanted to try it, you'd be dead after the first fight. Instead, she entered into an alliance that she wasn't very enthusiastic about.

I ignored context and missed cues like "I'm going to guard you the way that a livestock is guarded for harvesting" so I failed to grasp that this was headed toward marriage.

You are ignoring that it was spoken to a guy who invaded her realm, caused the death of her father and was a former human. Those were words she spoke to the one who was her enemy a few hours ago. There is no way she would swear an eternal friendship to us.

Yet she still did swear the Oath of Partnership, which should show just how much it was important to her. She will not chance it if she doesn't have to, which is why the alliance is holding up and why I use the term freely.


I have news for you. When we were dying, we said this to Kyle:

Gathering up all your strength, you attempt to speak from your ruined throat. “Kyle… my friend…”
“…I still have the bigger dick.”

But since we didn't have much of a lower body at this point... it means that Kyle has no dick and is actually a woman!

I mean, it literally is what it says. Not like there is context for those things.

 

[Nevill]

Pretty much how it is supposed to go down, yes.

And hey, what do you know, maybe the kids will turn out something special. Her father's work was supposed to turn humans into something else, right? Natural selection is just one of possible solutions.

 

[treave]

 

[archaen]

Reporting treave for harvesting.

 

[Esquilax]

Yes, she might try gauging our heart as a last resort if we ditch her. It would literally be the last resort, for if it doesn't work, the legacy will be lost to her forever. She will try to avoid that outcome at all costs. That is pretty much the reason for that oath - if she wanted to try it, you'd be dead after the fight. Instead, she entered into an alliance that she wasn't very enthusiastic about.
...
You are ignoring that it was spoken to a guy who invaded her realm, caused the death of her father and was a former human. Those were words she spoke to the one who was her enemy a few hours ago. There is no way she would swear an eternal friendship to us.

Yet she still did swear the Oath of Partnership, which should show just how much it was important to her. She will not chance it if she doesn't have to, which is why the alliance is holding up and why I use the term freely.

I think you've got the terms of the agreement right. Her ultimate goal is likely to turn humans into demons, thus fulfilling what she speculates* to be her father's legacy. As long as we don't get in her way of fulfilling her father's legacy, which seems to be finding a way to turn humans into demons, she'll stick with us and remain a loyal ally. And, if there is absolutely no other way to do that other than by taking our heart just as we took her father's - a heart that has the amazing property of turning whoever eats it into a wide variety of different species - then she'll maybe turn on us as a last resort, though I doubt that it would come to that because it's an oath that she takes seriously.

That being said, I don't think it's smart to just be so casually trusting of her either. Gobblecock is right on that. She'll stop at nothing to fulfill her father's legacy, and if we end up getting in her way or we end up in a situation where we're at cross-purposes in the future (i.e. we might not be too enthusiastic about turning all humans into demons, seeing as we are not a demon ourselves), we might clash.

On the other hand, it wouldn't be out of character to help her fulfill her goal either; it's not like it would be the first time we forsake mankind in favour of demonic entitties.

* This could mean, as you said, the nature of the agreement could change in time if we find out what the Demon King had initially set out to do is actually different than what Rin thought it was.

But since we didn't have much of a lower body at this point... it means that Kyle has no dick and is actually a woman!

I mean, it literally is what it says. Not like there is context for those things.

Wat? The statement would imply that Kyle has a smaller dick, not that he has no dick.

 

[Nevill]

Wat? The statement would imply that Kyle has a smaller dick, not that he has no dick.

Ah, but we lost our dick by then. How would he have a dick smaller than we did unless he didn't have one in the first place?

...it didn't take long for the thread to become about dicks.

 

[lightbane]

Should we find out a way to turn people into demons that is not inherently harmful to us, we totally have to repurpose this project to turn humans into Pigeon Angels, thus recreating a race of bloodthirsty killing machines. What can go wrong with this idea?

 

[Nevill]

She'll stop at nothing to fulfill her father's legacy, and if we end up getting in her way or we end up in a situation where we're at cross-purposes in the future (i.e. we might not be too enthusiastic about turning all humans into demons, seeing as we are not a demon ourselves), we might clash.

I agree with your assessment of the situation if you put it that way. We should not try to purposefully cross her, which is what I am saying.

However, I must point out that I don't really see how we can work at cross-purposes. To take your example (which I know is hypothetical), not even Rin states that her father's goal was to turn all humans - she says that he simply sought a way to alter them. To translate it into our experience, we are seeking a way to raise dead (Mieren), but we do not actually intend to cause a ghoulpocalypse... I think.

It could happen, but I just don't see how, for the moment.

Also, it is quite apparent to me that whatever her father worked on, we'll have to be the one doing most if not all of the research on the subject, and therefore will be able to influence the direction it takes. Rin does not really look like a scholarly type.

Lastly, I say that whenever someone from outside the goblin village ask us our name, we answer "Adahn" just for kicks

Been there, done that. Our last protagonist's name was Shinoseki Adachi, with pretty much the same idea.

That said, we probably will need to use a pseudonym to avoid the tales of our exploits reaching Seven Kingdoms and warning them about our existence before we are ready to strike.

 

[Esquilax]

However, I must point out that I don't really see how we can work at cross-purposes. To take your example (which I know is hypothetical), not even Rin states that her father's goal was to turn all humans - she says that he simply sought a way to alter them. To translate it into our experience, we are seeking a way to raise dead (Mieren), but we do not actually intent to cause a ghoulpocalypse... I think.

It could happen, but I just don't see how, for the moment.

Also, it is quite apparent to me that whatever her father worked on, we'll have to be the one doing most if not all of the research on the subject, and therefore will be able to influence the direction it takes. Rin does not really look like a scholarly type.

Well, she states that she thinks that was the goal of his work. It was explicitly about turning humans into demons. You quoted this earlier:

"Father never shared the full details of his work with me, but I can hazard a guess at what did happen. He was looking for a way to turn humans back into their original form.” She does not seem overly surprised, but a troubled expression creases her elegant brow.

“By original form, you mean…”

“Demons, of course. The superior life form. You humans are just degraded devolutions of our stock,” she says arrogantly.

Rin hates humans and thinks that they are an inferior form of life. Given her father's goals, and her wish to fulfill her father's legacy, the logical conclusion here is that she would either want to exterminate them or to uplift them by turning them into their original forms, superior demons. She may feel differently about humans down the road, and we may find more about what Kimaris' legacy actually was and whether Rin misinterpreted it, but right now, the goal seems obvious.

That said, we probably will need to use a pseudonym to avoid the tales of our exploits reaching Seven Kingdoms and warning them about our existence before we are ready to strike.

Our pseudonym shall be Man Tiger Pigeon.

 

[Nevill]

It was explicitly about turning humans into demons.

It was about finding a way to turn humans into demons. A small difference, but it's there.

If I found a way to turn lead into gold, I would not want to turn all the lead on the planet into gold.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Could always turn her into a human. That or maybe through the course of the story we can convince her to take another path. Or we will find out her father actually wanted something different.

That thing called "character development".

 

[Bibbimbop]

That thing called "character development".

Dude, our character's personality is fleshed out enough that he isn't so "malleable" that he can naturally make such a sharp turn personality-wise.

We're gonna need a bigger birdhouse.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

There's a difference between someone changing their mind about a goal after a long stretch of time or when confronted by new information that may reveal itself over the course of that time, and someone, in a mere moment, turning from an at least somewhat empathetic being into an abject sociopath who allows a new and previously alien instinct to control him.

One is a slow change of opinion, the other is a rapid and unnatural change of personality.

I would think that most people could tell the difference. I'm so surprised that someone named "Gobblecock", who in the past advocated raping a woman over a corpse, can't. A "bigger nuthouse" is more like it.

 

[Nevill]

Wow, it is almost like a character can't develop if he doesn't have schizophrenia and is not changing tunes once an update.

Edit: ninja'd

Edit: Edit: WTF, I am agreeing with Lambchop. How did it come to this?