Inactive [LP CYOA] Overlord

[Nevill]

Spoiler

For the second choice, I'm concerned with protecting the weaker members of our group. I don't think that Trider and Rin are in too much danger, but the others could be. There are two ways of going about this. One is in option A, which is going to fill the forests with all sorts of runes and wards to discourage or heavily damage those in the expedition who start approaching too closely as well as giving an early warning, which is really invaluable for preparation. This will also probably result in a lot more exploration of the forest and finding odd stuff-- remember that object that the guys we slaughtered at the start were looking for? Plus, who knows, maybe the Minotaur Firelord was out licking its wounds somewhere, it was supposed to eventually regenerate. The only problem with this option is that it represents an investment in this location, which I understand some of you to be leery of. This being a densely forested region of ill-repute and rumored incredible danger, I think it will both be unlikely for people to stumble across the site by chance and difficult to support a dedicated army within it for aggressors, and there's a good possibility of diplomatic accidents being caused by rash military action considering that the intersection of three borders is not far off. It's furthermore an area where all those kingdoms that nominally control it are greatly weakened.

What I mean to say by this is that despite the flaws with our location, in a lot of ways it is a really safe spot for our goblin village to exist, as evidenced by it not already having been depopulated with all inhabitants either enslaved or put to the sword. It's hard to come across such places. The only other one that I can think of is the forest where the slimes were, but if you look at the map that's at something like half the distance from Yuria that this forest is, which manifests itself in trainees and others coming to it all the time specifically to murder monsters while our present forest lies almost untouched.

I mean, yes, there are possibly other such places out in the east or the west beyond the mountain ranges. The thing is, since we haven't sent any scouts out either way and won't have by the time the explorers arrive (still butthurt about not letting Rin go off) we won't have identified any. There's this idea of using mass teleportation to bring our goblin village elsewhere, but if we haven't come across a suitable place to send them to then what's the point? Even if we put them all in the slime's forest, keeping in mind that the knights have probably been harrying that area as we determined earlier, that's not where they've been raising crops. We'd have huge and immediate problems with getting them all fed.

Good arguments all around, and I am inclined to agree with you on most counts.

Though I can think of one more defensive use of teleportation devices. If we are on an expedition, they allow other parties to contact Erdrick and Rin (provided those parties know where we have gone off to), who for now constitute our only major line of defence.

The goblins receiveing an early warning about an invasion in our territory while we are on a mission might be a good thing, but what good is it if we can't react to it by virtue of being elsewhere?

Also, instead of using them to move the village somewhere else (how do you do it? the houses can't be moved to my knowledge) you can just move the squishies out for the duration of enemy stay in the area. Unless the enemy decides to settle there themselves and stay there for months, crops shouldn't be an issue. Basically, we become a half-nomadic tribe.

 

[lightbane]

Unfortunately Nevill, for now it seems some Codexers are bent on watching this world burn... With ourselves being the fuel, that is.
Perhaps this will change in the next days, we'll see. I'm tempted to use conditional votes for my selection so that if the mass teleport circles don't end up being chosen, Rin's teleport is picked up instead and viceversa. But I'll do that later.

By the way, considering our gobbo tribe is slowly but surely growing, we can't be a nomadic tribe forever. Eventually not even the forest's resources and space will be enough for our base and when that happens, we'll have to look for a better place to set up (I vote for an underground lair, following tradition). But that's something it won't happen until a few ingame years pass at minimum and/or Erd/Rin get tired of their goblin diets and desire something better (assuming our characters live that long, that is).

 

[Baltika9]

These are all variations of the same theme, where we attempt to pin it on one of the other powers in the region. Of all these scapegoats, the Galbadians are the most convenient, IMO. The reason for this is that Prince Feist has managed to smooth things over with the Barzamites over the past decade, and relations with Gran Byarlant are quite good. This leaves Galbady as the odd man out - hey, it wouldn't be the first time in this LP that someone has attempted to frame Galbady either.

Anyways, I think it's probably better to blame the attack and kidnapping on something that the Duke actually knows and will more likely believe to be working against him than some completely unknown (to him) entity. He knows that there is an icy relationship with Barzam and that things are tense at times with Galbady, these are more plausible.

Sold. Galbaldy is the perfect patsy for this, besides ourselves. I really don't want Erdick to take the blame, though that does have its advantages and is way better than Snake's idea, because Nevill nailed it:

That said, I find some of the logic behind E a bit strange. 'Our reputation is pretty well fucked in Methuss', seriously? We are sitting at -28 in the kingdom overall, and the closer the place to Brescia family, the worse it gets. But I remember a certain unorthodox fighter who had a reputation of -25 with his closest potential allies after a particularly stupid stunt. Said fighter also BROed it back up to them and had it over +50 about 20 updates later.
...
My point is that deliberately ruining our reputation is just harming the very trade that brings us results. Staining the wares. I love our business-like side and the way we handled the latest development ('there is no reason not to be professional' and all that fluff), and I would like to keep going in the same direction, which I assume we are about to make increasingly difficult for ourselves.

Our rep is bad, yeah, but it's not at the 'pretty well fucked' level that Scuba puts it at. Yeah, we dun fucked up, but, while -28 rep isn't great, that's not terrible either. Case in point:

Our reputation is pretty well fucked in Methuss, excepting a few individuals that know us personally (ex. our gay lover prince, the adventurer's guild leader, and maybe Wisteria?). We're not recovering that except through manipulation or conquest, so why not pull some suspicion off of our pawns?

That perception-altering manipulation can be worked into the ruins expedition. Don't we have some armor details from Galbaldy, can't we dress Rin up as an enemy champion or some shit (I'm not putting out a plan before we see the actual options, I'm making a point that there's wiggle room for us). They won't do a one-eighty on their perception of us, whatever we do, but that can be a start.

It does not help that I think we are also falling to pre-established patterns, taking all of the blame on ourselves for little personal benefit (does that remind you of anyone?) instead of pitting the powers in the region agains each other in a bid to weaken them, like a proper mastermind would have done. (Are we a mastermind, though? Is there any interest whatsoever walking down that path?)

Personally, I want to go for an angel cult, but I'm down for being a shrewd manipulator. Erdrick is at his best when he is a fucking ice cold businessman, automatically makes me thing of Al Pacino playing Michael Corleone.
And, yeah, I want to train our apprentices and grab the spell arm. One, it will let us arm our subordinates with some good last-resort spells and, two, I can see them pulling that thing out and doing this:

And how can I not love on that?

CEA

 

[Nevill]

Sold. Galbaldy is the perfect patsy for this, besides ourselves.

While Galbaldy is a believable scapegoat, in part because there is no one in particular willing to defend its actions, I am also a bit leery of this option.

They could be useful precisely because we have not taken action against them yet, unlike it is with Barzam/Byarlant, and because they seem to be mercenary in nature. Pay them money and give them work - there is no silly religion or shady deals to worry about... or so it looks like from where we are standing, because we still know very little about it.

What I dislike about this choice is that Barzamites wer interested in framing Galbaldy for some reason, and tensions there could benefit the ones we consider our enemies while inconveniencing a possible ally. Of course, we may adopt the position that no human state is our ally and adjust our schemes with that in mind...

I want to put it on Barzam, because FUCK THOSE GUYS, but I am open to ideas. Don't want to get in more trouble with the Adventurer's Guild. There is still a possibility we (as Trider Munch-a-cracker) could remain cordial with them, all the while killing them in droves via numerous proxies.

 

[Baltika9]

What I dislike about this choice is that Barzamites wer interested in framing Galbaldy for some reason, and tensions there could benefit the ones we consider our enemies while inconveniencing a possible ally. Of course, we may adopt the position that no human state is our ally and adjust our schemes with that in mind...

There is still a possibility we (as Trider Munch-a-cracker) could remain cordial with them. All the while killeing them in droves via numerous proxies.

Exactly. Ultimately, none of them are our friends, not even in perspective. We're our own agent, we do what's good for Number One, us. Anything bad that happens between them can be used to our advantage. If Barzam are working an angle to start a war, good, that's the time to make bold moves. Right now, we're kind of on the fence in regards to our reputation among the human realms and it's ours to make or break. As much as I'd like to move out East and settle among the monsters, we have a good thing going here, why fuck that up, instead of building on it?
If Sarah and the Guvna do their jobs right, then no one will track this lie to us and we can still deal with Galbaldy and that's great: Erdrick gets off clean, the kingdoms fight with one another and can't afford to pay as much attention to us. We win, so why not?

Trider Munch-a-cracker

Yeah, that name makes us sound like a Latino kraken that decided to put on a mask and take up Lucha Libre wrestling. We need a new one.

 

[Nevill]

Frankly, I am not that opposed to E, provided that the Codex does not go full retard and start LARPing a MONSTAR because 'all the bridges are burned, why not?', which, alarmingly, is the logic that is being used even now. We tend to go to the extremes at a drop of a hat. We sold the world for Rin? WE MUST NOW EAT ALL THE PUPPIES! The prince asked us about a star? HE KNOWS EVERYTHING, GIGADYNE TO THE RESCUE! Wist dropped dead? METHUSS HATES US NOW, KILL THEM ALL!

We may be an asshole, but I'd prefer to be an asshole with professional ethics with whom one can still do business.

In a post that has now disappeared treave mentioned to keep in mind a distinction between the royalty that hates us, and the royalty that dislikes us but can still tolerate us. E doesn't change that much, but my concern is not forcing them all to the former category just because we are such a bad boy that we can't be expected to conform to any of the society's rules.

 

[Baltika9]

I'm with you on that. Like I said, the bridges are still there, it's up to us to fix them or break them, so to speak; the argument that there's no fixing them is false. I don't think that E will make it impossible for us to operate in human territory openly, but it will make it much more difficult than it is now, for no big gain. Let's look at it from the other side, what will E do for us?
Someone mentioned that by admitting our presence and letting Shara take credit for beating us back would make Hargreave underestimate us and take the heat off of the Guvna.

 

[Nevill]

Let's look at it from the other side, what will E do for us?

It is a story that is less likely to be investigated and thus with less contradictions or tensions down the line. It remains a Methussian affair without involving other states in this mess. This could be relevant if we don't want anyone to look at the story up close, as all of those intrigue options have consequences that are difficult to predict. This also does not make Hargreave doubt Shara's words. Any of these can be viewed as an advantage and as a disadvantage, depending on your position on the matter. For example, tensions between the Duke and his right-hand woman may be exploited just like his complete trust in her.

archaen also mentioned that it makes it more personal with the Duke, making it possible to reach the point where he becomes obsessed with us. Given that Shara 'thwarted' our plot once, he will send her out again and again to ruin our nefarious schemes and bring us to 'justice', which may be used to our benefit. The more delusional he is, the more likely he is to stumble.

It gives us a bit of a reputation in the less than lawful circles, but it also undermines it because of our apparent 'defeat'. Still, we took out a whole team of Snakes single-handedly!

Finally, it points at us as an active figure in the region. Trider does not disappear and get forgotten after his brief rise and fall in the capital - he is out there somewhere, and he is a force to be reckoned with. One can make use of this word of mouth, if they are crafty. This is obviously a double-edged sword.

As for the disadvantages - there is always Ellen and her naivete, though I expect the Governor to take care of that she doesn't mention us anywhere and doesn't try to defend our actions from an obvious libel. There is a further drop in reputation with certain factions in the kingdom. My personal belief is that it makes it harder to conceal our connection to the Governor (too much of our activities have been around Ontoglia for it to be a coincidence), though treave indicates otherwise. Plus, everything that has been listed above could be seen as a downside if that isn't your cup of tea.

 

[Baltika9]

Then it's all about personal preference. I think we can come out clean from this. If our name doesn't come up in any inquiries, then we can run some more smear jobs on Galbaldy and instigate chaos that we can exploit.
Or we can be the Big Bad Wolf, though I think that if we take it far enough, then no one except for the most hardcore criminals will want to deal with us.
I dunno, I kinda like leaving the door open between us and the human realms while we fuck with them behind the scenes.

 

[Nevill]

Does anyone think that the training session will leave either twin with a useful spell or technique that can be used cleverly?

I will be content if Aria learns Light/Darkness, Dark-Sight, Invisibility, and Unlock - a gentlemanly GTFO spell pack. She would be able to do stealth missions and get away out of tough situations (or help others get out, if there is a need).

If she can learn some of our rank D spells, her versatility and survivability as an agent will shoot up tenfold.

And I want to make a man out of Arlin, goddamn! We identified him as a potentially better fighter than ourselves, and he'd better start lifting yesterday!

 

[Baltika9]

Yeah, you know how I compared Erd to Al Pacino? I guess that makes Arlin Keanu Reeves.

Lifting is a good idea for him, too.

 

[TOME]

So we are swapping spellarms and gigadyne equivalent spells for a training session to our mooks? Story wise it's okay but not the best choice even then. I would rather train Lucy to get her "story" or try to get more lore from Barbados (although I hate the idea of muscle wizard).

As for the second choice, why are you defending/fortifying Grahferde again? What is there that is worth defending? Goblins we can move, Zayan we can move, regeneration pod (I think) we can move. It's only a remote location and nothing else.

I'm flopping to BBDIV>BB!A.

 

[Nevill]

As for the second choice, why are you defending/fortifying Grahferde again? What is there that is worth defending? Goblins we can move, Zayan we can move, regeneration pod (I think) we can move. It's only a remote location and nothing else.

It is nice to have an advance notice about when to move.

 

[TOME]

And that is worth a whole project? Why can't we set goblin sentries in the forest and have them run back at first sight of the adventurers? With mass teleportation we don't need that much advance notion.

 

[Nevill]

Why can't we set goblin sentries in the forest and have them run back at first sight of the adventurers?

Which is how we will be doing it, I guess, if the early warning network doesn't win. There is no problem that can't be solved by throwing enough minions at it.

Then again, any good adventurers would take the scouts out, and have the scouts of their own - but that is going into Shulgi territory.

 

[Kipeci]

Spoiler

For the second choice, I'm concerned with protecting the weaker members of our group. I don't think that Trider and Rin are in too much danger, but the others could be. There are two ways of going about this. One is in option A, which is going to fill the forests with all sorts of runes and wards to discourage or heavily damage those in the expedition who start approaching too closely as well as giving an early warning, which is really invaluable for preparation. This will also probably result in a lot more exploration of the forest and finding odd stuff-- remember that object that the guys we slaughtered at the start were looking for? Plus, who knows, maybe the Minotaur Firelord was out licking its wounds somewhere, it was supposed to eventually regenerate. The only problem with this option is that it represents an investment in this location, which I understand some of you to be leery of. This being a densely forested region of ill-repute and rumored incredible danger, I think it will both be unlikely for people to stumble across the site by chance and difficult to support a dedicated army within it for aggressors, and there's a good possibility of diplomatic accidents being caused by rash military action considering that the intersection of three borders is not far off. It's furthermore an area where all those kingdoms that nominally control it are greatly weakened.

What I mean to say by this is that despite the flaws with our location, in a lot of ways it is a really safe spot for our goblin village to exist, as evidenced by it not already having been depopulated with all inhabitants either enslaved or put to the sword. It's hard to come across such places. The only other one that I can think of is the forest where the slimes were, but if you look at the map that's at something like half the distance from Yuria that this forest is, which manifests itself in trainees and others coming to it all the time specifically to murder monsters while our present forest lies almost untouched.

I mean, yes, there are possibly other such places out in the east or the west beyond the mountain ranges. The thing is, since we haven't sent any scouts out either way and won't have by the time the explorers arrive (still butthurt about not letting Rin go off) we won't have identified any. There's this idea of using mass teleportation to bring our goblin village elsewhere, but if we haven't come across a suitable place to send them to then what's the point? Even if we put them all in the slime's forest, keeping in mind that the knights have probably been harrying that area as we determined earlier, that's not where they've been raising crops. We'd have huge and immediate problems with getting them all fed.

Good arguments all around, and I am inclined to agree with you on most counts.

Though I can think of one more defensive use of teleportation devices. If we are on an expedition, they allow other parties to contact Erdrick and Rin (provided those parties know where we have gone off to), who for now constitute our only major line of defence.

The goblins receiveing an early warning about an invasion in our territory while we are on a mission might be a good thing, but what good is it if we can't react to it by virtue of being elsewhere?

Also, instead of using them to move the village somewhere else (how do you do it? the houses can't be moved to my knowledge) you can just move the squishies out for the duration of enemy stay in the area. Unless the enemy decides to settle there themselves and stay there for months, crops shouldn't be an issue. Basically, we become a half-nomadic tribe.

I'm not convinced. With no early warning system, they use the teleportation to wherever we last indicated we were essentially the moment that they are attacked given the shortcomings of sentries in comparison. The chances that Erd stayed in the exact same place is not likely, as he is highly mobile. They then have to track him down, and meanwhile everyone in every place we've had reason to travel thus far despises goblins and want to kill or capture them. It's incredibly dangerous and difficult even for the elites, and the best that they can hope for is that the village is still under attack when we get back. Even if they zip everyone out of the village in the meantime (which is what I meant by moving the village), there's no way to bring housing and crops with them even if we knew of a safe place to drop them off. Say what you will about becoming nomads, but unlike nomads they depend on subsistence agriculture; expecting an army of some sort to leave goblin crops totally untouched while short on supplies in a hostile forest seems a bit... hopeful.

What I prefer about 2A is that it allows the village to be more autonomous. It discourages and/or weakens future incursions by making the forest into a death trap and gives the village time to plan and prepare a defense, making it so that there's less of a need for them to get in contact with us to save them in a hurry. Having the village be less of a gaping weakness would do a great deal to settle my worries, and I just don't see mass teleportation as being anywhere near as effective in achieving that aim. Mass teleportation is important to develop eventually, but I think it's premature to focus on until we have masses or at least a place to go.

Also, for my last vote I'll have to swap to BIV. I'd really rather not, but personal development ranks over training mortals in my priority list. At least, those mortals. Maybe if it were the slimes...

 

[Nevill]

With no early warning system, they use the teleportation to wherever we last indicated we were essentially the moment that they are attacked given the shortcomings of sentries in comparison.

What are the shortcomings of sentries?

The chances that Erd stayed in the exact same place is not likely, as he is highly mobile. They then have to track him down, and meanwhile everyone in every place we've had reason to travel thus far despises goblins and want to kill or capture them. It's incredibly dangerous and difficult even for the elites, and the best that they can hope for is that the village is still under attack when we get back.

We are venturing too far into a 'what-if' land... but short-distance communication is far less of a problem than a long-distance one. A single signal rocket would pretty much convey the message, and would be noticed by everyone in the location.

I'd really rather not, but personal development ranks over training mortals in my priority list. At least, those mortals. Maybe if it were the slimes...

We are short on the staff. Our reliable officers at the moment are Erd, Rin and Lucy. I would like to solve that problem ASAP, since you guys refused to accept a pretty snake lady in our ranks.

Also, I find it a fun idea to train Arlin by giving Tenia a sword and having him DOOOOODGE.

Edit: treave, how far is the windmill from the city? Could the tornado have been seen all the way from there? The description made it sound rather noticeable.

 

[Kipeci]

Why can't we set goblin sentries in the forest and have them run back at first sight of the adventurers?

Which is how we will be doing it, I guess, if the early warning network doesn't win. There is no problem that can't be solved by throwing enough minions at it.

Then again, any good adventurers would take the scouts out, and have the scouts of their own - but that is going into Shulgi territory.

Well, I assumed that you meant this when I talked about their shortcomings. I'll be on a flight for the next several hours, I hope someone carries the torch to angle for option 2A. If not, I guess we should start making rockets.

Better yet, teach everyone Gigadyne!

 

[lightbane]

I'm not really convinced we'll be able to take the heat if Erd decides to take all of the blame for himself. Should that one win, for starters we'll need complex illusion spells to have a chance to go anywhere. And then there will be bounty hunters interested on taking our hide (alive or dead). Even if the Duke insists on sending his right-hand woman, there will be others who will not be as "friendly" as her. Also, what happens with the rest of her lackeys? Unless the governor ensures they're not going to talk ever again in one way or another, 1E can make things more difficult for him anyway. Even more so considering Ellen, who no matter how hard her father tries, it is unlikely she will not mention anything to anyone about this issue.

Perhaps I am overthinking it and the Codex is just doing what they do best: to troll everyone, including themselves.

By the way, are Ellen and Eileen related in any way? The latter is that rookie knight girl, who IIRC also seemed to have a noble lineage of some sort.

Anyway, I'll update my votes to tidy up the results:

1.B>D>F.
2. B>D>A.
3. A>DI>DIII>DIV (only if 2B doesn't win, otherwise ignore it)>EI.

EDIT:

Also, I find it a fun idea to train Arlin by giving Tenia a sword and having him DOOOOODGE.

I thought that was already part of the standard training with Rin. Also, I believe I already made that joke before.

 

[Nevill]

Should that one win, for starters we'll need complex illusion spells to have a chance to go anywhere.

I don't see the complication. We already claimed a hobo identity when we encountered the squires, and they didn't notice anything. We can have as many faces as we want to - that is assuming we would prefer operating in the open.

Even if the Duke insists on sending his right-hand woman, there will be others who will not be as "friendly" as her.

Those will likely get a less friendly response from us.

I am not particularly worrried about the Governor's side of things, either. The man didn't become the head of the secong most important city without knowing a thing or two about how to work with people.

I thought that was already part of the standard training with Rin. Also, I believe I already made that joke before.

But Rin wouldn't be that interested on landing a hit. Too easy.

The dodge joke is less about the DBZ abridged and more about his unwillingness to kill. Since he is no mage, that's about the only thing we can teach him for now.

I wonder, though, how long it would take them to become accustomed to Battle Premonition, if they can at all. This looks like something that can save lives in a pinch, and we learned how to cast it on others...

 

[lightbane]

Since he is no mage, that's about the only thing we can teach him for now.

That can be fixed. Last time we checked, both Aria and Arlin have above human average stats (including magical-related ones). Teaching the twins several useful spells such as Unlock or Darkness will be quite good for everyone involved. In fact, it's possible Rin and Lucy join in after a while, feeling left out. Moreover, it is very likely the training will trigger one or two PSTD flashbacks fond memories from Erdric's Hero training, which usually are fun to read.

Finally, this is the closest thing we have to bonding with the twins, which is also important to ensure their loyalty (or dislike us slightly less, in Arlin's case). Doubly so if we consider we're about to make even more human enemies, assuming the vote tally doesn't change.

PS: We also might learn something ourselves with the training, as it happened when regenerating Ellen. Lastly, this gives us a perfect opportunity to explain an idealized version of the truth whenever one of the twins asks us about our past (which they will).

 

[ScubaV]

That said, I find some of the logic behind E a bit strange. 'Our reputation is pretty well fucked in Methuss', seriously? We are sitting at -28 in the kingdom overall, and the closer the place to Brescia family, the worse it gets. But I remember a certain unorthodox fighter who had a reputation of -25 with his closest potential allies after a particularly stupid stunt. Said fighter also BROed it back up to them and had it over +50 about 20 updates later

Yeah but as a villain do we really care about Methuss outside of a few aforementioned individuals? Still, I'll flop to 1B on the off-chance it does sow some confusion/suspicion about backstabbing.

 

[Nevill]

Yeah but as a villain do we really care about Methuss outside of a few aforementioned individuals?

Well... yes? They are our potential clientelle. The individuals you speak of came to our attention because they are the heads of certain factions. Do we care about our standing with the different factions? Baltika and me seem to.

I mean, it is entirely possible that Velburg has its own burgomeister (possibly with a hot daughter, since it is becoming a running gag by now) that we might want a thing or two from down the line. Or to bring them out of Duke's influence as well. Or something, I have no idea how the plot would go.

I do not exclude the possibility of helping the royalty against another royalty that is openly hostile towards us. Or pretending to, while working against them both.

That said, I myself was coming around the self-blaming option. I don't particularly begrudge the choice itself, just warning not to use it as a way of separating ourselves from dealing with mortals (on the basis that there can not be an understanding between us), because that is what has been most lucrative so far.

Blaming other factions may have consequences that are difficult to predict.

 

[archaen]

I don't like that we are giving credit for our miracle of science to a bunch of hopped up zealots. If you think they will want to kill Ellen if we cured her, what do you think happens to her when her impossible to heal infliction by the Methussian clergy gets healed by a rival faith?

 

[Nevill]

No one moves orderly enough to conduct a mass escape of several hundred inhabitants and their cargo when you're being warned about enemies within arrowshot.
[...]
Filling a whole forest with dense death-traps is extremely hard work, probably a thousand spells simply to securely surround a 1 km radius with a single line of traps every 3 m, to say nothing of many lines of traps, and that level of coverage is not what I'm reading here.

It's magic, and it's Zayan.

It says it's a 'sensor network' of sorts, so that's what we will get. I am not reading 'within arrowshot' here. Traps are a separate issue and those may be closer to our village location. So that may work like a warning at long distances, and a deterrent at short ones.

Also, once you have a forest full of death traps, de facto, you are no longer protected by being hidden.

Surprise, surprise - the same happens when they run into you because you have no advance warning. You have to relocate and hide again.

The early warning allows to prepare for the guests and make it so that they all die. That helps with staying hidden for longer.

We are talking about the kind of defences that help against stray scouts and accidental incursions. Any serious, directed push won't be complicated much by your teleportation circles either - not with Rin broadcasting her location to anyone who can pinpoint her and with the circles designed to be activated by anyone.

If you think they will want to kill Ellen if we cured her, what do you think happens to her when her impossible to heal infliction by the Methussian clergy gets healed by a rival faith?

I thought that the Gods were entities 'friendly' to each other, what with them being talked about in plural. The Priest didn't talk about a particular Methussian patron deity when he mentioned the gods, although I admit he is not really a good representative of their faith.

But what I am hearing here is that you think there may be a Holy War, with one clergy appropriating a miracle, and the other denying it? That seems mighty fine to me.

Look, once the Governor goes against Hargreave, Ellen's safety is not guaranteed, regardless of the reason. She can be - and has been - used as a leverage against Ambrese. Whether it is us, or Barzam, or whatever - is just a dress up.

By the way, are you telling me that by owning up to our presence here we also admit to healing Ellen? Which I do not think we do, but just checking the logic here.