Interview Lore-focused Project Eternity interview with Chris Avellone at Anon of Holland

[evdk]

It matters to creating a believable world. A world where player's actions are respected by the game, which happens to be the unique quality of the medium. It doesn't make the world artificial, it makes it less so. A world where you can interact in plausible ways is less artificial than one where there's less plausible interaction, despite the inadequacies in the former. An example of artificial would be ending slides featuring different outcomes of your actions. They're artificial because they have no presence in the game, and the influence they have on the gameworld occurs outside the game.

But they are not respected in the game, it's just another part of the whole larping experience, this time using the engine. You take some silver ingots and leave them lying all over the town and they'll be there for the rest of the game and that is the game respecting your actions? Not in my book, I'd rather the game to disrespect me by removing them, because that at least would make sense.

?

That's all the people use this super respecting freedom for.

 

[abnaxus]

"including the fact that Fallout 3 is one of his favorite modern RPGs"



Seeing how well he's doing at Arcanum I'm not surprised that he likes simplified popamole RPGs.

http://forums.obsidian.net/blog/1/entry-127-fallout-fan-question/

:: Floodgates open ::

It's a testament to the game that for every thing that initially bothered me, there was a solution or a tool to counterbalance it. For example, I was exploring Hubris Comics, dropped my Power Fist so I could haul some extra loot, then came back and couldn't find it on the floor. Pissed. And then I remembered Dogmeat has the dialogue option to go "fetch" existing weapons in the environment and bring them back - so I asked him to go hunt down the Power Fist for me, and he found it in 5 seconds. Awesome. The game had enough options and tools at my disposal to insure I was having fun no matter what the challenges, so I can't ask for much more.

So here's the list:

The negatives: Dogmeat's breathing if you don't adjust the sound sliders. The tiny model house in Minefield not containing anything special. Anyone armed with a flamer can kick my melee-specialized ass, and thus, can kiss my ass. It was confusing to find one's way around Megaton, although it had beautiful set pieces and I got used to it. I played with a 4 ST character and regretted it, but it made me appreciate the ST boost from alcohol more (1st time I've ever considered alcohol a viable drug in any game system, ever) and also made me appreciate Buffouts. I suck at the Science minigame, which is a horrible confession for an English major. Thought Hubris Comics should have had more Grognak issues, although I really liked the fan mail and the text adventure game in there. Didn't like not being able to kill Amata or Andy the Robot at the outset because I hated them both. I didn't like that the first potential companion was a bad karma companion and expensive, but then the twin goals of being an **** and scrounging up a thousand caps became bait and a challenge in trying to get him - when I got Jericho, I felt like I'd earned him as a companion. I think Repair became too valuable as a skill, but it's better than the special case it was in Fallout 1 and 2, so I'd rather that than it remain a broken skill (like Doctor in F2). Maybe because I'm approaching it from the development end, I didn't care, but I think the level cap turned a number of people off, as did not being able to play after and continue the game until Broken Steel came out. Some of the locations I think broke the 4th wall (Dunwich, which I actually enjoyed playing, just not the premise).

So that said...

Likes: Opening immersion and re-introducing you into the Fallout world. Fallout 1 and 2 had consistently broken or special case skills that were rectified in F3 (for example, Repair - and Doctor vs. First Aid in Fallout 2 became broken without a time limit, so Medicine was clearly an improvement). Fast Travel. Felt my skills mattered in general. The kitchen bell XP sound. I love radiation more in F3, it makes me pay close attention to the environment, I loved the Grognak text adventure game, I loved the Gutsy and Robobrain combat barkstrings, I liked the usage of the radio and the reactivity to the player's actions - that seemed an elegant way of reinforcing your actions in the world as well as introducing a bad guy you couldn't immediately shoot in the face, I liked a lot of the moments in the game, including suddenly being surrounded by the creepy Andale residents after entering the basement in town, I never thought a neighborhood filled with land mines would be a good adventure locale and I ate my words, loved the juxtaposition of real world mundane locations and their change into dungeons (Campgrounds, Springvale School, Super Duper Mart). Liked tracking down radio transmission signals for rewards. This is the first game I've ever played where I was excited to see barricades.* Nerd Rage surprised me as a Perk - chose it by default at one level only so I could drop grenades on myself to increase my carrying capacity and found it surprisingly useful at saving my ass when I walked into an ambush. The Pitt DLC, especially the opening vista crossing the bridge, is incredible. Liked the lockpick minigame. The Arlington Cemetery actually hit me pretty hard, and as a location it really drove home the futility of war to me - just seeing all those graves with Washington DC stretching out behind it made me feel really bad. Loved firing my combat shotgun into a bus with 5 ghouls trapped on the Dupont Circle freeway below and watching the whole screen erupt in fire. Consistently being rewarded for exploring the environment - there was always at least three things to see on the horizon that you wanted to go check out. I didn't think I would like Liberty Prime, but the Iron Giant aspect worked for me and made me do a 180. I liked the Brotherhood camping out at the Pentagon. The sign inside the portable bomb shelters made me smile. I liked the Time Bandits aspects of Mothership Zeta. Seeing Dogmeat on fire, and being so tough that he didn't even care that he was on fire. Liked playing as a Psycho-using alcoholic and murdering caravan folks for things I didn't even need. Thought beer was valuable as a ST enhancer to carry loot. Liked the Well-Rested Perk. Shiskebab rocks - tap and burn.

* Yes, barricades. I have never had anything but hate for barricades until this game. They block my progress. **** barricades. But in F3, they are filled with the equivalent of RPG candy - containers are usually embedded in the wreckage, which was a great way to turn something hated into a gaming loot opportunity.

 

[Space Satan]

Oh, please, noone is saying that Skyrim's mechanics is ideal. But, it's a step forward. I bet Bethesda will work in this direction and expand AI behaviour until NPCs WILL pick up droped plate and place it back.
The main problem here is that Bethesda is full of lazy fucks who will rather waste time on child molestationadoption and cottaqge building than AI improvement.

 

[General Maxson]

Oh, please, noone is saying that Skyrim's mechanics is ideal. But, it's a step forward. I bet Bethesda will work in this direction and expand AI behaviour until NPCs WILL pick up droped plate and place it back.
The main problem here is that Bethesda is full of lazy fucks who will rather waste time on child molestationadoption and cottaqge building than AI improvement.

Why would they? Look at their audience. They seem more than satisfied... Just pump money in marketing so it sells even better and that's it.

 

[Lancehead]

It matters to creating a believable world. A world where player's actions are respected by the game, which happens to be the unique quality of the medium. It doesn't make the world artificial, it makes it less so. A world where you can interact in plausible ways is less artificial than one where there's less plausible interaction, despite the inadequacies in the former. An example of artificial would be ending slides featuring different outcomes of your actions. They're artificial because they have no presence in the game, and the influence they have on the gameworld occurs outside the game.

But they are not respected in the game, it's just another part of the whole larping experience, this time using the engine. You take some silver ingots and leave them lying all over the town and they'll be there for the rest of the game and that is the game respecting your actions? Not in my book, I'd rather the game to disrespect me by removing them, because that at least would make sense.

Yes, that is game respecting your actions, and for the game to be believable it also has to react to it. The example I gave doesn't need any reaction. The example you've turned that into, by introducing NPCs (that's what I take it by "town") that weren't, requires some reaction. If I put a ladle in the middle of the town, and an NPC picks it up, it still is a pretty minor thing and inconsequential without context, but makes the world more believable than one where you couldn't do that.

That's all the people use this super respecting freedom for.

Maybe, but the discussion is about design principles, and what it can enable. By way of example, in Arcanum, I could drop an item near an NPC, and the NPC may pick it up, wield it. Is that inconsequential, LARPing? Try that procedure with a hexed item.

 

[evdk]

Oh, please, noone is saying that Skyrim's mechanics is ideal. But, it's a step forward. I bet Bethesda will work in this direction and expand AI behaviour until NPCs WILL pick up droped plate and place it back.
The main problem here is that Bethesda is full of lazy fucks who will rather waste time on child molestationadoption and cottaqge building than AI improvement.

They haven't worked on this for the last three games, why should I believe they would in the future? There is no pressure on them in that area, the audience and press are bith eating out of their hand. They will not do it.

Lancehead I have to admit I have lost track of our argument - are you agreeing with me that for the action to be believable the game must react to it (like having a NPC pick up the items you've dropped) or not?

 

[Space Satan]

Why would they? Look at their audience. They seem more than satisfied... Just pump money in marketing so it sells even better and that's it.

There's still hope. Bethesda is more of a stray child and not as lost to degradation as BioWare. There's still a hope for redemption for them.

dropped my Power Fist so I could haul some extra loot

Oh, look, a fellow hoarder.

 

[Lancehead]

Lancehead I have to admit I have lost track of our argument - are you agreeing with me that for the action to be believable the game must react to it (like having a NPC pick up the items you've dropped) or not?

Yes, I do, but my initial point was about world persistence. My example was that, say, you come across some abandoned house, you go inside, move some item two inches, and move on. And the game keeps the item in that new position until someone messes with it, and my point was that such persistence increases the believability of the game world. To go back to Arcanum, I always keep extra stuff in a chest in a tavern in Tarant, and the stuff stays there.

 

[evdk]

Lancehead I have to admit I have lost track of our argument - are you agreeing with me that for the action to be believable the game must react to it (like having a NPC pick up the items you've dropped) or not?

Yes, I do, but my initial point was about world persistence. My example was that, say, you come across some abandoned house, you go inside, move some item two inches, and move on. And the game keeps the item in that new position until someone messes with it, and my point was that such persistence increases the believability of the game world. To go back to Arcanum, I always keep extra stuff in a chest in a tavern in Tarant, and the stuff stays there.

Yes, I admit it's a nice first step, but without something in the game actually acknowledging your input (I notice all your examples deal with situation without any othe actors in the scene - abandoned house, etc; I guess it works OK in those cases) it's just window dressing to me - sort of like the dialogue choices Bioware put in BG. They are there, they are nice on their own and give the feeling of choices, but they have almost no effect and they are meaningless when coming into contact with rest of the world.

 

[Roguey]

Everyone's getting hung up on Avellone liking Fallout 3 and overlooking how one of his favorite characters is the one-note auto-tune guy from Saints Row the Third.

I bet he likes that game because it feels likes an Alpha Protocol done right better.

 

[Scruffy]

"they turned almost every obstacle and hazard into an opportunity for reward for the player, which I thought was great."

oh... then why was it so incredibly boring? i couldn't even manage a second playthrough with a different build because the thought of going once more through all that blandness and derpness made me sad...

 

[Manjuice Nutella]

In Avellone's defense, he's a fan of Fallout 3 due to its exploration design. In general, he seems to have a great appreciation for games that do things he's not so good at himself. Emergent gameplay, wide open worlds, etc.

Is he even allowed to say something bad about Bethesda products, considering that he was an employee of sort? If he talked shit or expressed more in-depth critical opinion, wouldn't it be said that he did it out of spite for that 84 Metacritic or what gives?

 

[AstroZombie]

When I saw him play Arcanum, I knew immediately what he really likes...

Well...

 

[General Maxson]

Hopefully he will somewhat redeem himself with good writing in kickstarter games. :D

 

[Ramireza]

When I saw him play Arcanum, I knew immediately what he really likes...

Well...

Why not? BS:I is a great game.

 

[evdk]

Why not? BS:I is a great game.

You sure you have the right forum?

 

[AstroZombie]

Why not? BS:I is a great game.

 

[Ramireza]

Why not? BS:I is a great game.

You sure you have the right forum?

I mainly love cRPG´s like Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 & 2 (yes, i ALSO love NV), BG1 & 2 and the Eschalon Series. But sometimes i wanna play a Action Game. Where is the Problem? And dont tell me that Unreal, Quake or Doom are more pretentious or the better Games (only because they are old? Comon!). Yes, Bioshock Infinite is a nice Shooter with a great Story. And now rip me apart.

 

[undecaf]

And now rip me apart.

 

[evdk]

Why not? BS:I is a great game.

You sure you have the right forum?

I mainly love cRPG´s like Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 & 2 (yes, i ALSO love NV), BG1 & 2 and the Eschalon Series. But sometimes i wanna play a Action Game. Where is the Problem? And dont tell me that Unreal, Quake or Doom are more pretentious or the better Games (only because they are old? Comon!). Yes, Bioshock Infinite is a nice Shooter with a great Story. And now rip me apart.

Why bother, you've done my work for me.

 

[Ramireza]

Why not? BS:I is a great game.

You sure you have the right forum?

I mainly love cRPG´s like Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 & 2 (yes, i ALSO love NV), BG1 & 2 and the Eschalon Series. But sometimes i wanna play a Action Game. Where is the Problem? And dont tell me that Unreal, Quake or Doom are more pretentious or the better Games (only because they are old? Comon!). Yes, Bioshock Infinite is a nice Shooter with a great Story. And now rip me apart.

Why bother, you've done my work for me.

wich is?

 

[AstroZombie]

I mainly love cRPG´s like Planescape Torment, Fallout 1 & 2 (yes, i ALSO love NV), BG1 & 2 and the Eschalon Series. But sometimes i wanna play a Action Game. Where is the Problem? And dont tell me that Unreal, Quake or Doom are more pretentious or the better Games (only because they are old? Comon!). Yes, Bioshock Infinite is a nice Shooter with a great Story. And now rip me apart.

I have no fucking idea what this means.

 

[Irenaeus]

I have. He's saying that Bioshock Infinity is better than Unreal, Quake and Doom.

 

[AstroZombie]

I have. He's saying that Bioshock Infinity is better than Unreal, Quake and Doom.

Then he's a fucking moron.

I still have no idea why the word "pretentious" is in that sentence.

 

[Irenaeus]

Yeah, beats me.