Let's learn about fighting games and get murdered together.

[Sitra Achara]

WAVU WAVU

 

[d1r]

On a side note, can we please nuke Tekken 7 season 3?

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Yes, Season 3 was a mistake. Leroy's nerfs, hahaha. HAHAHAHAHA. God what a fucking clown circus.

Every time I want to really go in and shit talk Namco they just march Harada out there and sure enough I keep my trap shut.



I can't hate him. He has too much machismo.

 

[d1r]

Leroy is worse, yes, but I have a far bigger problem with them normalising 500m wall travel combos and upping the damage of everyone. This certainly killed the uniqueness of some characters in the game.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

That's kind of why I started to zone out of T7, the constant wall travel combos and the high damage everyone brings is boring after the novelty wears off. Upping damage is such a lazy way to buff characters as is. I still fuck with T7, but Leroy and the gameplay changes made me go back to playing SCVI as my preferred Namco title. I think Season 2 of SCVI is much better and some of my characters felt like they got buffed (mostly Cervantes, Voldo still doesn't feel like he can compete sadly).

 

[Gerrard]

THE BASICS: ARCADE STICK/CONTROLLER
So you wanna be a fighting game player, HUH? Think it's easy to just jump into, HUH? Oh you've seen many people pick it up, make it look easy, well fuck you, kid. Eat shit, get out of my topic. Just kidding.

If you want to play fighting games, I want you to do the first thing that will change your life: take your keyboard & mouse and put them into the garbage bin. Yes. You don't want to use that. You'll be laughed at by school children and called an EBTer.

I had a video of someone replicating the Daigo parry in a real match on a keyboard, unfortunately I think it was deleted as I can't find it on my playlist of fighting game stuff nad there's a bunch of [deleted video] there.
Also https://www.oneesports.gg/fgc/stree...-tech-that-made-daigo-ditch-his-arcade-stick/

Basically what I'm saying is: git gud, scrub

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Figthing games are fucking amazing.
One of the last genres where solid gameplay mechanics still reign supreme.

THE TOP FRANCHISES OF TODAY

I hope by this you mean the most popular figthing games of the moment, and not the best ones.
Because I'll shoryuken your ass if you're actually recomending people to play the the trainwreck that is SF5.

Also why no Smash?
Even the most autisitc members of the fgc have accepted SSB as a figthing game.

 

[Citizen]

I would play a fighting game with you, but where do I download the turnbased mod?

 

[DonGabo]

This are the only 2 resources you need to learn to play fighting games.

https://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

 

[HoboForEternity]

you have 8 legs of course you'd be good at button mashing games

 

[ItsChon]

Where the fuck is Super Smash Bros? Super Smash Bros Melee and Smash 64 are some of the greatest fighting games ever created, and Melee is one of the most popular competitive games out there right now. That's right, games, not just fighting exclusive.

 

[Latro]

a lot of words for fighting games; just play

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I had a video of someone replicating the Daigo parry in a real match on a keyboard, unfortunately I think it was deleted as I can't find it on my playlist of fighting game stuff nad there's a bunch of [deleted video] there.

There is probably a super autist that can do Rising Storm, Daigo parrys, Overkills and charge supers at will using a PS2 steering wheel but does that mean you could too? Refer to Part 2 of THE BASICS.

Also why no Smash?

It's a party game. Refer to FREQUENT QUESTIONS for better explanation.

 

[ItsChon]

It's a party game. Refer to FREQUENT QUESTIONS for better explanation.

Not an answer, and Stone Cold is shit.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

It's a party game

Every game is a party game with the right mindset.
What about them wrassling games though? Are they fighting games too?

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

OKay, okay, OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY OKAY

I'LL GO INTO WHY SMASH BROS ISN'T A FIGHTING GAME

But I'm only going to do this once so after I say it shut the fuck up and deal with it:

BUT MR. SPIDER, WHY IS SMASH BROS NOT A FIGHTING GAME?

Spoiler

There has been a recent hot topic as of late on the Codex and it concerns Disco Elysium. There are people who see it as decline, people who think it's more of an evolved CYOA than an RPG, it isn't a true RPG as it doesn't have the things you'd typically find in an RPG or identify with an RPG. Then you have people defending it, saying it is indeed an RPG and that the definition of what qualifies an RPG is loose and much more encompassing.

This war with Smash Bros and it being a fighting game is oddly similar.

You see, Smash Bros was never designed with a real competitive aspect in mind. Think back to a game like Street Fighter II which allowed two players to face off against one another in a virtual contest to determine the better player. Smash Bros was designed for the ideal scenario of having three friends over and womping the shit out of one another and that's that.

The way how competitive Smash is played involves a severe gutting of the game itself. Items must be disabled, only certain stages are played on, it is always restricted to a 1v1, there are no bells and whistles, no incorporation of intended features that are by default on for a reason. Smash Bros has to actively reduce itself to desperately try and fit the most base mold of a fighting game. This leads to the popular defense screeched by pterodactyl Nintendrones everywhere:

"BUT IN SMASH BROS YOU FIGHT THEREFORE IT IS A FIGHTING GAME."

This is the weakest, most vague defense you can ever say to try and give validation to your claims. If you remove all the weapons in Doom, ban all the stages except five or six, and allow only the gauntlet or chainsaw between two players does this now make Doom a fighting game that doesn't look out of place between KOF and Tekken? Because going by that flimsy definition then yes, Doom is now a fighting game. In fact, you can make almost any other game into a fighting game if you follow all these restrictions. It is hollow and means nothing, just like if I were to tell you that Resident Evil is an RPG because you are technically roleplaying as a character in the game. Now everything can become an RPG even if it is the furthest thing from Darklands. It's one of the worst arguments and people who say it should be banished to the sea.

You'll see many fighting game enthusiasts refer to Smash as a "party game." But what is a PARTY GAME? Why, Mario Kart is also a party game but is it not also racing?! In simple terms, a party game is something you can entertain and is perhaps intended to be played with multiple people. It isn't meant to be serious, it isn't meant to be competitive, it has a highly random element at play that almost always allows players of various skill the capability to win. Mario Kart has all the various power-ups and boosts scattered all around, Smash Bros has crazy stages with platforming elements and items that do anything from summon a random monster to attack everyone to straight up one-shot-KOing someone. Like Mario Kart, Smash Bros gains a lot of its enjoyment the more people are involved and it becomes this chaotic mess of "anyone can win."

Not only that, but people have been pushing Smash as a legitimate fighting game since Melee was released in 2002. Since then there have been multiple entries into the series: Brawl, Smash 4, Ultimate, and it is well aware to Nintendo and the very creator of Smash Bros how much traction this was getting through the years. Surely they took notice and at least one of these titles is where they started to take the "fighting game" portion of it seriously, right? No, wrong, very wrong, so wrong. It has always remained with its party game elements at the forefront with flashier items being added, more crazy stages that morph wildly as you continue playing, upping the player count from four simultaneous characters on screen to six and above.

Even when you look at the fluff description on the back of the box you always see it pitched to the reader as a four player+ romp with it being some competitive fighting game nowhere to be found.

Spoiler

But if all this talk about Smash being a transsexual trying to use the fighting game restroom isn't convincing enough for you, let's acknowledge that even the creator of Smash Bros does not consider it a fighting game:

https://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013...nt-fighting-genre-and-value-unpredictability/

When planning the development of a new game, I always take a lot of care to discuss the concept and try to define it as best I can. For example, I like to think of Smash as a four-player battle royal action game. You'll notice that's a lot longer than saying it's a fighting game, because 'fighting game' is a completely different label.

And yet still, this still won't do it for Smash kids. FUCKIN' SHIVA AND VISHNU COULD HAND THEM A PAPER SAYIN' SMASH ISN'T A FIGHTING GAME AND THEY STILL WOULDN'T BELIEVE IT. FUCK YOUUU, PATEL.

Seriously, it isn't a fighting game, doesn't play like a fighting game, doesn't advertise itself as a fighting game. At best you can call it a party game in which you fight much like Mario Kart is a party game in which you race. But if you're really into racing games you're not going to play Mario Kart as your main chicken. You'll likely play Forza or Gran Turismo or... I don't know, fucking Jet Moto. If you're into fighting games or want to play a serious one you're going to play Tekken or Virtua Fighter or Street Fighter or fucking TIME KILLERS. I'll drop anyone with Mantazz, btw.

As alluded to earlier, Smash Bros is a transsexual. It can be as retarded as it wants and change everything about its anatomy to try and resemble its ideal but it'll never be what it wishes it was. Tough break, life sucks and then you die, now let's play some goddamn Darkstalkers.

 

[ItsChon]

To determine what is or is not a fighting game, one must first determine what is a fighting game. To quote Wikipedia

So, to summarize, fighting games require.

1) Close Combat between two people.
2) A stage in which the boundaries are fixed.
3) Characters must fight each other until they are defeated or their the time expires.
4) Each character must have different abilities and players must be able to chain together attacks known as combos.

Smash checks all of these. If you want to limit the fighting game genre to shitty, super zoomed in, 2D side scrollers with very little to no vertical movement, that's on you. Doesn't make Smash any less of a fighting game. The fact that there are items, the fact that stages need to be eliminated to ensure competitive integrity, and so on, do nothing to devalue Smash as a fighting game. Those elements are often eliminated to maximize competition and prevent RNG and character exploits from interfering with player skill. I do not believe it is unheard of for certain exploits to be banned from other fighting games. Also, a game does not have to be designed with a competitive aspect in mind for it to be a fighting game. No where in the definition of a fighting game does it state that a game has to be competitively viable. You're using the words "fighting game" and "competitive fighting game" interchangeably, when they both mean different things.

Whatever. The actual fighting game genre is dogshit, and Smash is the only game even worth playing. It also has a much higher skill cap than most popular fighting games. Stay mad though.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Those elements are often eliminated to maximize competition and prevent RNG and character exploits from interfering with player skill. I do not believe it is unheard of for certain exploits to be banned from other fighting games.

There is a big difference between what is an exploit and what is an intended, conscious decision. Like it or not, a lot of what is removed/turned off for competitive Smash to work are put in there because that is how the developers want the game to be ideally enjoyed. An exploit would be something like, how combos were created in SF2. The developers didn't intend for combos to actually be a thing, but because this glitch went over so well with players they decided to keep it in the game and even embrace it fully by adding in a combo counter in later versions of SF2 (I think it may have been Super Street Fighter II: New Challengers).

Nowadays if a glitch or bug that can be heavily abused is found it tends to be patched, but to put items and such from Smash on the same level as having an exploit is simply incorrect. I guess those gosh-darn Nintendoers just can't stop releasing buggy, glitchy as fuck games with hundreds of items each time Smash gets a new release. !

Also, a game does not have to be designed with a competitive aspect in mind for it to be a fighting game.

Actually a huge part of the fighting game experience is that you can face another person, one on one, MAN ON MAN, therefore we can reasonably conclude that even if you're playing Shaq-Fu there's some competitive aspect there. In recent times you have had some developers like NRS expand greatly on fighting games by adding in lots of single player stuff, but the main focus is still on that fight between people.

I believe what you're confusing though is being tournament viable. Not all fighting games are tournament viable and this can be due to factors such as glitches and exploits that are so prevalent it makes the game miserable to take seriously, maybe the fighting game itself just isn't very good in terms of its mechanics, perhaps hitboxes and damage are all fucked up, whatever the case may be there are some fighting games that are played more as morbid curiosities. But that does not mean they are not still designed with a competitive focus in mind, they simply didn't deliver enough for players to invest in.

Smash Bros by contrast has never been designed with competitive focus as I brought up in my previous post by quoting how the very guy who has the most say on the game's development cycle sees it as a four player battle royale.

Whatever. The actual fighting game genre is dogshit, and Smash is the only game even worth playing. It also has a much higher skill cap than most popular fighting games. Stay mad though.

 

[abija]

I'm also very butthurt over the lack of a PC release of the new SamSho, despite SNK promising "it's totally coming, u guise!". If anyone got some news, please share.

Stadia uses the PC version so probably some exclusivity bullshit with google fucks...

 

[ERYFKRAD]

What about them wrassling games though? Are they fighting games too?

Heed my query you obstreperous arachnid.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Wrestling gamez, especially today, are more simulation based than straight up fighting. Most of those games try to replicate what you see on television and in the case of wrestling, the showmanship of it all. There's not too much of a big difference between characters and I've always found those "OVERALL" stats to be pretty pointless since you could have Repo Man beat up Andre the Giant if you really wanted to. I wouldn't call them fighting games than I would their own subgenre of sports, in this case just straight up "pro wrestling."

With that said, there was one WWF game that was in the arcades in the '90s that I used to spend a shitload of quarters on:

Wrestlemania the Arcade Game, BABY. Made by Midway and carrying a control scheme/style that was like a more bonkers version of Mortal Kombat, this game was really fun to play if you had friends to join in. Instead of blood each wrestler would "bleed" something relating to their gimmick. Yokozuna had chicken legs come out of him because he was fat, Undertaker had skulls and souls because he's undead, Shawn Michaels had broken hearts because he was the Heartbreak Kid.

I could make a whole different topic on wrestling games though because I used to love the old AKI games like WCW/nWo Revenge, Wrestlemania 2000 and then there were the godly Fire Pro Wrestling games from the SNES to the PS2. Giant Gram 2000 for the Dreamcast was really good too.

 

[Terra]

Namco

TEKKEN 7 - If you want to learn another language then Tekken 7 is what you have been waiting for. With characters that can have anywhere between 80-120 moves alone, I hope you like to spend time in training mode because that's where you'll be baby. So here's the thing, Tekken 7 is a very good game. It's a terrible game if you're new to fighters as a whole. The Tekken series has seen changes but it is also the one that has remained the most pure. If someone has played since the earlier Tekken games then chances are they will seem like Bloodsport's Chong Li while you're Karate Kid's Daniel-san. You'll get obliterated. That's how it is. It is also a fully fledged 3D fighter which has very different movement and gameplay than the previous ones on this list which are still on a 2D playing field. If you are committed to jumping into shark infested waters with the intent to one day horsefuck the demons waiting for you in the deep then T7 will be your best friend that loves to push you off cliffs. T7, compared to other games on this list, is also the most barebones in terms of single player content and expects you to be into kicking the shit out of other people from the get-go. Again, if you're a fighting game enthusiast you'll love Tekken 7 more than you love your pet tarantulas. If you're new or wanting to merely try your hand, stay away from this neighborhood. It's 1970s Bronx, New York.

SOUL CALIBUR VI - Namco's other big fighter, however, is more of a contrast to Tekken. If you really want to learn a 3D fighter, SC is in my view the better title to get into. Much more friendlier to new players, you can actually mash buttons and look like you're doing cool shit. If Tekken is an unbudging old master who operates out of a dilapidated wooden temple, never laughs and responds to your conversation with grunts before walking off in disgust, Soul Calibur is the fun and cool looking dojo in the city that has lots of style and a sensei all the girls find hot. This doesn't make it vapid, though! SC has lots of depth, lots of subsystems, a lot of stuff under the hood that advanced players will be able to sink their teeth into. It also has decent content for single player that provides many hours of entertainment with two story modes, character creation/editing, and a smaller but meaningful roster. I always liked how SC's presentation was, it's very elegant and definitely stands out. Between this and T7, I actually always preferred the SC series. It has characters that appeal to me more and having clutch matches where you and your opponent have 5 weapon clashes in a row before finally landing the killing blow is satisfying. I recommend it.

This is basically why I've finally started laying off of Tekken. Been playing since the first game and years of demanding Kazuya execution finally caught up to me in the form of carpal tunnel. I've really come to dislike that performing KBDs and wavedashes are almost arbitrarily difficult (almost exploity) just for the sake of being difficult in Tekken, whereas in Soul calibur, if you hold back, you're moving back at full speed. SC's just a lot less demanding on your digits.

Sadly, way more people play Tekken, especially among my fighting game pals so I've not been playing fighters much over the past few months.

It is funny just how much of a role legacy skill plays; friends will insist that I've been secretly practicing on either game after our matches but in reality, it's just that I've been playing since the first entries of each franchise and know the game/characters pretty well by this point.

 

[Silverfish]

unless you are one of THOSE GUYS who makes Talim sized girls with Astaroth moves. Are you one of THOSE GUYS?

 

[Cromwell]

Since you guys listed the games by the way they play what current game could one play if one wanted a 2d fighter that plays somewhat like samurai shodown and thats available for pc? I have no idea about fighting games, the last I played was Tekken 3 and the Internet is not that helpful in this question.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Since you guys listed the games by the way they play what current game could one play if one wanted a 2d fighter that plays somewhat like samurai shodown and thats available for pc?

Honestly, Soul Calibur is probably the closest you'll get to Samurai Shodown that's readily available on PC. I suppose you could go for Garou: Mark of the Wolves (the port on Steam got a big overhaul recently and has seen something of a resurgence since the netcode is much better) since I believe Garou and the new SamSho both share a Just Defend system.

One other thing is Soul Calibur is actually getting Haohmaru from Samurai Shodown as a guest DLC character soon to tide you over until those fuckers decide to release the PC version.