Legend of Grimrock

[Grunker]

I'm pretty happy with my two fighters and two mages, seems optimal so far. It's just hard as hell because of the interface. How someone is managing four mages is an enigma to me.

Also, I'm really bad at the puzzles. Right now I'm at the "I demand a sacrifice" one. I've tried killing a spider next to it, throwing food onto the grate, various other stuff. Can't figure out how to interact with the trapdoor on the other side since there's a grate in between.

 

[Jasede]

You can put things through grates, but only 1 square in front of you.

 

[Gord]

Well, you have to put something there, just try different stuff.

Spoiler

Don't worry too much about losing it ...

I found a secret passage from 3 to 4, but it's either getting raped by slimes or find a way through a door by a stone face that wants to be "fed"...

Edit: Got it...

 

[Grunker]

It is not a matter of taste, my comment had nothing to do with the style differences. KotC has more depth in its character system and its combat system. Good puzzles do not make up for that.

Also, just found out you can put items behind grates by dropping them lower on the floor. They could have told us that

EDIT: Thanks Jasede, just noticed your comment.

 

[Jasede]

I disagree, it is a matter of taste. Character system is fairly irrelevant to a blobber like this. For example, Dungeon Master and Lands of Lore have far more primitive systems than this game. It doesn't matter, though- because character building isn't part of the appeal this sort of game holds to its core audience. Rather, they are looking for interesting dungeons and puzzles. It's a different thing. If someone who exclusively liked blobbers looked at KotC he'd say, what is all this character and combat system good for? This will only make it slower to get to the next switch puzzle! And why can't I map out these dungeons!? The perspective is all wrong.

See what I am trying to say?

 

[JudasIscariot]

What are you talking about, I need those 3 boxes filled with 24 torches!

Obviously the torches have to stay :D along with some rocks for the pressure plate puzzles but once gear is supplanted by newer, better gear there's really no point in hanging on to it.

 

[Grunker]

Dungeon Master and Lands of Lore have far more primitive systems than this game

Which is one of their core weaknesses.

they are looking for interesting dungeons and puzzles

So the old "not a good RPG but a good game", eh?

I don't think I've gone into this discussion in like the last year on the 'dex but I'm sorry to say it:

If someone who exclusively liked blobbers looked at KotC he'd say, what is all this character and combat system good for? This will only make it slower to get to the next switch puzzle! And why can't I map out these dungeons!?

Then that someone wasn't looking for a good RPG, but a puzzle-game.

Anyway, I'm know struggling with the locked gate just before delving into level 4. Must've missed something.

 

[Jasede]

No, I am trying to say there are many different sub-types of RPGs and they all have their fans. Some of us here are eclectic and enjoy most of these types. Others are exclusive. And then some just hate all but one kind and express their loathing every chance they get.

These types all have different aspects to them and would all have to be rated differently. You can not rate a blobber with the same criteria you would rate Fallout. They are different genres, although they are both under the umbrella term RPG.

There are many such sub-types and many games that blend two or more of them. LoG clearly belongs only the blobber sub-type. Trying to rate it as anything else is futile and unproductive. It is a good RPG, just not in the way you see RPG. It is a good RPG in the sense that it is a good example of the RPG sub-type "blobber".

 

[Nattvardsvin]

I find the rogue to be quite decent if you spec him in Missile Weapons and equip him with a bow or crossbow. Does some good damage, and hits like 99% of the time.

 

[Jaedar]

Since Jasede asked for it:

I'm fairly sure I'm missing more secrets than I am finding. I knew this was going to be the case going in though, I am quite terrible at finding secrets.
And yeah, most missile weapons seem to be hitscan, which is a huge benefit.

 

[Grunker]

Jasede: Bullshit, dear sir. Wizardry 8 and Might & Magic 6-8 are both examples of blobbers with great character customization. Legend of Grimrock is definetely a good game - a good RPG even, but it is nowhere near the level of KotC in terms of RPG elements.

Also, my turn. First real play-day over, here's how it looks:

Yes, I know. I suck at finding secrets

 

[Jasede]

I disagree, Wizardry 8 and Might & Magic 6-8 are different genres. Don't you agree they feel completely different? They focus on character building and exploration on a grand scale. They are also not that linear. Contrast Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder and this game: linear experiences that do not focus on character building, but instead on puzzles and mapping.

They are two different archetypes. though many games fall somewhere in-between or blend elements of both. Well, we can argue all we want, you're not convincing me and i am not convincing you.

 

[evdk]

I wanted to join the dick waving achievements competition but Print Screen doesn't seem to be working in the game for me.

 

[made]

Character system is fairly irrelevant to a blobber like this. For example, Dungeon Master and Lands of Lore have far more primitive systems than this game. It doesn't matter, though- because character building isn't part of the appeal this sort of game holds to its core audience. Rather, they are looking for interesting dungeons and puzzles. It's a different thing.

This is very true. Puzzles come first. However, a well-designed (if simple) char system certainly doesn't hurt. LoG has a solid framework but there are some glaring issues. Dex being useless for archers has been pointed out. Mages get +str in the fire tree, various +energy skills for melee are equally pointless. There's a lot of filler in the skill trees that's just there for flavor and makes no sense otherwise. Could easily be fixed if/when they release mod tools tho.

6 hours in btw, just finished lvl 5. I'm pleased so far.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

Mages get +str in the fire tree, various +energy skills for melee are equally pointless. There's a lot of filler in the skill trees that's just there for flavor and makes no sense otherwise.

This I totally agree with. Certainly feels like fillers.

 

[Mortmal]

Log is an evolved dungeon master clone except in the magic department it end up you cant really play much with the combinations, theres 4 spells by schools, period. At least in Dm you can play with the intensity of the spells and mix up a bit . They may as well remove the runes and put a spellbook like in eye of beholder , its too simplistic in my opinion.
Most of it is in, but its msising features from older clones like eye of the beholder, no dialogues, party recruitment, no lockpicking,i am probably forgetting some other things , cant really says the older ones are primitive compare to it, dungeon master you had fighter, ninja mage , priest, here you get 3 classes but 4 races, Eye of the beholder the 2nd edition of D&D rules.

Oh i know why they put str in mage tree , to not make them one sided, but i hardly believe anyone will hot switch the mage with a fighter in front row to melee , its low hp may soak a bit of damage, but at that point that means you are already dead.Energy for fighters same, i hardly seen their specials consuming it.
Fights are not nearly as strategical as KOTC off course, never been the case in this subgenre, but the puzzle are really good, maybe the best ive seen in such subgenre.

Worth the price no doubt, and probably the best rpg of 2012 so far, lot of fun.

 

[Gord]

Hm, I think energy factors into combat for fighters, too.
Not sure exactly how, but probably random critical/special attacks cost energy?

There's certainly room for improvement in the game, but given that it has been developed relatively fast by a small team and is being sold at a pretty low price, I'd say we got a quite decent game. And they are already working on a level editor, which they plan on expanding over time, feature-wise. Bonus.

 

[Jasede]

Spell-casting is flat-out bad. The runes don't bother me, it's more the fact that it's more primitive than it was in Dungeon Master. Crooked Bee is going to be pissed with her useless 4 mage party.

 

[Elwro]

...what? I really hoped I could create variations of the basic spells by experimenting with the runes, and that only my low skills were preventing me from finding them. Shame if it really isn't the case...

 

[Stabwound]

Yeah, you can definitely see the Dungeon Master roots of the game. It did begin as a DM mod. It is a shame that they didn't add more expansive class options to the game, and it really wouldn't have been much extra work compared to crafting the dungeon itself.

I agree that it's a solid framework and I hope that future expansions or modding allows for a more varied character system on top of what's already available.

And yeah, playing with 4 mages would only work if you were on speed while playing, I think.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Spell-casting is flat-out bad. The runes don't bother me, it's more the fact that it's more primitive than it was in Dungeon Master. Crooked Bee is going to be pissed with her useless 4 mage party.

I wouldn't say my party is useless. I've already steamrolled 3 floors with my trusty insectoids and have only died a few times. I have discovered but a few spells so far, but they're all pretty powerful even on Hard. I've also made my front line mages relatively evasive, which helps in the rare case the enemies manage to get a swing at them.

It saddens me to hear there aren't many spells overall, though.

 

[FromWisdomToHate]

Just reached lvl 6 and so far it's quite fun, especially the puzzles.

Made a party with 4 minotaurs: 2 fighters and 2 rogues, all specialized in unarmed combat

 

[Brayko]

I hope you folks are having fun because apparently my new bank doesn't authorize payments from GoG unless you give them permission to do so because it's overseas so I have to wait a few days.

 

[Nattvardsvin]

Energy gets depleted by using basic melee attacks too, however, it's such a small amount that Fighters really never need any upgrade in energy.
At least i have never had any of my Fighters or Rogues depleting too much of their energy. That's only an issue with the Mage.

This is what I got so far, recently started over trying out a dfferent style of Rogue.

 

[Elwro]

I hope you folks are having fun because apparently my new bank doesn't authorize payments from GoG unless you give them permission to do so because it's overseas so I have to wait a few days.

So don't buy from GoG, buy straight from the devs!