Last good Bioware game?

[KörangarTheMighty]

On a day where I'm being provocative, KotOR. Realistically though, regardless of my distaste for it, Dragon Age: Origins. KotOR fixed most* of the issues with NWN and could have been set to be the inheritor of BGII's legacy for storytelling. All it really needed was world expansion and firm dedication to the PC market. Unfortunately, due to it being released in the early 00's console boom, it was robbed of its potential in gameplay and scope. The true decline made itself obvious with Jade Empire's release.

DAO likewise fixed most* of the issues with KotOR. The combat camera modes were great. The full party control of IE titles returned. I just personally found the plot and setting too dull for my taste. Bioware was always better working with other people's IPs than making their own. I also found the animations a bit... clunkshit. Might just be me, but playing a warrior felt a little stiff. Late 00s were also very ugly graphically with every texture looking like melted playdough combined ubiquitous brown palettes and over-saturated lighting. Either way, like KotOR, DA:O should have been the jumping off point to get them back on track to greatness. Alas, it was just another false start.

 

[Ulysa]

DAO likewise fixed most* of the issues with KotOR. The combat camera modes were great. The full party control of IE titles returned. I just personally found the plot and setting too dull for my taste. .

I agree, really DAO might have better gameplay but Jesus why I would want a full party with those emo companions? And don't get me started on that generic story where you are a pariah if you are an elf, yet forced to save the world. Why would you do that? Fuck that. At least kotor had an original plot twist and lets you be the real bad guy or whatever. From HK to Alistair and Morrigan. It was a heavy decline, even with KOTOR crappy combat. For me that was the end of BW.
Yeah even SWTOR original class missions have more spark than Emo Age.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

that generic story where you are a pariah if you are an elf, yet forced to save the world. Why would you do that? Fuck that.

I had the same reaction when I tried playing Human Noble. After the Grey Wardens shanghai you into joining and were subsequently wiped out, I couldn't justify remaining loyal to what was essentially a dead cause when I had a missing brother to locate. Too railroady and I was never invested enough to buy train tickets.

 

[Butter]

DAO... a full party

 

[rusty_shackleford]

the only origin you were supposed to play is human noble you tards, the other ones were trap choices
it's why they also get so much more reactivity overall, the main plot is directly related to their family, and the ability to actually become a king

 

[Camel]

the only origin you were supposed to play is human noble you tards, the other ones were trap choices
it's why they also get so much more reactivity overall, the main plot is directly related to their family, and the ability to actually become a king

I quite liked dwarven origins especially being a pariah Casteless goon even if the dreaded Hamburger Hepler wrote them. Dwarven kingdom has the deliberate ASOIAF feel with palace intrigues and ruthless backstabbing, it has some original flavour in otherwise generic setting.
Also Cousland massacre is a direct ripoff of GRRM’s Red wedding. Female Cousland becoming a queen and marrying Alistair is every girl’s wet dream.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Also Cousland massacre is a direct ripoff of GRRM’s Red wedding. Female Cousland becoming a queen and marrying Alistair is every girl’s wet dream.

Except the massacre is closer to the historical event he based the red wedding on than the red wedding itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe

 

[NerevarineKing]

I feel like Mass Effect 2 was the beginning of the downfall, but it's still a good game even with it's dumbed down gameplay. If someone said Dragon Age Origins was their last good game, I would agree to some extent though.

 

[Camel]

Also Cousland massacre is a direct ripoff of GRRM’s Red wedding. Female Cousland becoming a queen and marrying Alistair is every girl’s wet dream.

Except the massacre is closer to the historical event he based the red wedding on than the red wedding itself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacre_of_Glencoe

Doubtful that Gaider et al. read history books and were influenced by them when creating DA:O. Gaider obviously read ASOIAF.

I mentioned off hand on the [BioWare] forums that George R. R. Martin novels were a big influence, but that was mainly because I think at the time — this was five or six years ago when I started working on Origins — I was a little burnt out on fantasy. George R. R. Martin’s books…I found them influential because he did fantasy in this different way.

https://venturebeat.com/community/2...-interview-part-ii-creativity-and-the-novels/

 

[Wulfric Pinewood]

Andromeda is great, at least it has nice atmosphere and good shooting can't wait for new Mass Effect game.

 

[Gromlintroid]

Obviously DA:O, everything since has been trash

 

[Mexi]

DA:O, really.

I didn't like KoTOR. It felt like it should've been a great game. I liked the art, atmosphere, solid combat. Characters were... eh... alright, but the Star Wars setting fucked it up for me. You're railroaded into good or mustache twirling evil. I hated that there was no in between, but that isn't BioWare's fault. I've not played the Obsidian one.

DA:O is a great AAA RPG. I don't think we'll ever see a game like that again. Sucks because all they needed to do was tweak it for the sequel, not rape its corpse. 6 party members and tweak the combat system was all, not awesome button madness we got.

But yeah, I've not play any Mass Effect game. I would've if it didn't feature a talking protagonist.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Mass Effect 1 for me. Fucking loved it to be honest, just gave me that space-explorer vibe which I used to dream of as a kid.

You mean sex scenes with blue aliens?

Dr. McCoy: "Jim. Your face is red. I think you need to visit sick bay."
Captain Kirk: "Dr. McCoy. Those. Blue females Aliens. Really do make me. Aroused... Even more than those green. Female Aliens. I think I need a cure. The only cure... Blue. Alien. Poon."
Mr. Spok: "Captain. This is quite illogical. Their planet is 100 light years away from our current position. We cannot just change course on a whim as we're expected on Risa."
Captain Kirk: [presses his combadge] "Scotty. How long will it take. To configure the transporters. To beam me to that fine. Blue. Alien. Poon."
Scotty: "Aye Captain. It`ll take me a day."
Captain Kirk: "You have. Five minutes. Make it happen"

 

[Falksi]

Mass Effect 1 for me. Fucking loved it to be honest, just gave me that space-explorer vibe which I used to dream of as a kid.

You mean sex scenes with blue aliens?

Dr. McCoy: "Jim. Your face is red. I think you need to visit sick bay."
Captain Kirk: "Dr. McCoy. Those. Blue females Aliens. Really do make me. Aroused... Even more than those green. Female Aliens. I think I need a cure. The only cure... Blue. Alien. Poon."
Mr. Spok: "Captain. This is quite illogical. Their planet is 100 light years away from our current position. We cannot just change course on a whim as we're expected on Risa."
Captain Kirk: [presses his combadge] "Scotty. How long will it take. To configure the transporters. To beam me to that fine. Blue. Alien. Poon."
Scotty: "Aye Captain. It`ll take me a day."
Captain Kirk: "You have. Five minutes. Make it happen"

 

[jackofshadows]

Let's see:
- Haven't played Anthem but I assume that's not a good game.
- Andromeda: has even better combat/gameplay than ME3 but overall obviously not a good game so
- DA:I too many shitty design decisions to consider it good
- ME3 great combat, good dialogue, story, mood, pace, unfortunate ending. Overall's still good in my book so there's that.

 

[Morgoth]

NWN HotU. Good writing and atmosphere. Everything after that including ME2 ranged from good to servicable. And after that, Bioware ceased to exist and they became EA Edmonton.

 

[Bohrain]

ME2 was the last one I played from them. The combat in the first one wasn't amazing but at least they tried to do something that wasn't just a third person shooter. The gunplay was better in 2 but I was hoping for them to develop it to another direction. And I generally dislike save the world/universe plots, which they went for after the first ME. The ayylien robots collecting humans to make a big meatloaf robot was the last straw, I couldn't take the setting seriously at any capacity after that point.

 

[Lutte]

I'm still surprised by the amount of people who give so much credit to DAO.

DAO is one of these games that seem great the first few hours you play them. You haven't understood all mechanics just yet, you discover new things, see how spells can combo together etc.

Then, past a breaking point... it becomes a completely fixed routine. You always do the exact same thing, everywhere, all the time, and god knows the level of repetition you're going to go through, this isn't a combat-light or well paced RPG but one with a lot, lot of it, and it never gets better.

Rarely do enemies have unique resistances, or weaknesses, most group of enemies are built the same, it's mind numbing to fight a group of darkspawn and discover how they literally have the same balance of tanky warrior, rogues and mages among them as a group of humans or bandits would.

Contrast that with how unique it was the first time you met vampires (who level drain you), beholders, dragons and so on in BG2.

Now, a lot of good RPGs have repetitive, mediocre combat. Fallout combat is pretty garbage. But it doesn't overstay its welcome, it's not a game of 80 hours with 75 hours of it spent clearing large waves of enemies.

If your developers are too stupid to build some element of variety and fun in combat, then the first thing you need to learn to do is : restraint. The derp roads are so maligned not because they're the only part of the game that is a spammy bullshit but because it's the point at which a lot of people were just tired of the game and wanted it to end.

I find it easier to tolerate the ME series if only because bland shooters are still more palatable timewasters than shitty RPGs.

BG2 is arguably the last worthwhile Bioware game. Some games they made past that.. were tolerable, but not great.

 

[Nano]

Inquisition is kind of a trash game. But Cullen and the Iron Bull are hot. So I voted for Inquisition.

 

[Darkwind]

Mass Effect 1 for me. Fucking loved it to be honest, just gave me that space-explorer vibe which I used to dream of as a kid.

You mean sex scenes with blue aliens?

Dr. McCoy: "Jim. Your face is red. I think you need to visit sick bay."
Captain Kirk: "Dr. McCoy. Those. Blue females Aliens. Really do make me. Aroused... Even more than those green. Female Aliens. I think I need a cure. The only cure... Blue. Alien. Poon."
Mr. Spok: "Captain. This is quite illogical. Their planet is 100 light years away from our current position. We cannot just change course on a whim as we're expected on Risa."
Captain Kirk: [presses his combadge] "Scotty. How long will it take. To configure the transporters. To beam me to that fine. Blue. Alien. Poon."
Scotty: "Aye Captain. It`ll take me a day."
Captain Kirk: "You have. Five minutes. Make it happen"

Jesus you nailed the Shatner bantz. I read this to myself mentally in a flawless mimicry of that absurd pause, over-annunciation, and scene chewing style that he became so famous for. Pretty good effort post for using text alone to convey that.

 

[Storyfag]

the only origin you were supposed to play is human noble you tards, the other ones were trap choices
it's why they also get so much more reactivity overall, the main plot is directly related to their family, and the ability to actually become a king

That is not an argument in favour of DAO being good.

 

[JDR13]

I voted BG2. Even though I enjoyed DA:O and Mass Effect 1 to certain degrees, BG2 was the last really good game they made imo.

KotOR was ok but tends to get vastly overrated for some reason.

 

[no-return]

DA2 was the last one that feels like real Bioware game to me. I wish they didn't rush it and didn't call it Dragon age.