KotOR 2 is one of the best games ever made

[Volourn]

"there is this "us" word instead of "I"."

The fact she feels that everyone should think theb way she does and tries to speak for others and act for them shows how evil she. It's the 'ol 'with us or against us mentality'. And, again, she doesn't give a shit about ohters. Only about herself. She is evil. Her actions, words, her manner, her methods, her everthing reeks of evil.

Avellone may have tried to write her like a 'sympathetic evil' like Ravel but failed miserably in that manner. there is nothing sympathetic about Kreia. I don't feel for her. She's just plain 'ol fashion. WAA WAA Poor little old ugly moronic pathetic evil selfish punk girl.

Piece of shit.

 

[MetalCraze]

Volly you are stupid. I understand that you like being a rebel, a brave warrior who fights against the evil hivemind - but fucking lern2reed - she never tried to speak for others. she says "force controls our destiny" but she also says "-I- hate it".

 

[Armacalypse]

So evil is directly connected to impoliteness?

You sound like Bioware.

 

[Volourn]

No. Evil is committing mas smurder, and supporitng mass murder. It's also not really caring about what happens to others even as you give lip service pretending that you do. Kreia doesn't give a shit about anyone else. Just herself, and her feelings. Her goal is also pathetically retarded. She treats everybody like garbage. That they're beneath her, and that they have no feelings, and she cna do anytting she wnats to them 'cause it don't matter because they are merely ants.

The ultimate scumbag bitch.


@ Skyway: Keep spinning your Obsidian fanboyism. It's irrleevant. kreia is evil. She's also unsymapthetic . Which is why Ravel is an excellent character, and Kreia is merely adequate.

 

[MetalCraze]

Volourn now I really do believe you missed every important thing about KotOR2. as Kreia obviously gave a shit about others, despite using them. that's what I liked about this character and other in KotOR2 - there were no stupid extremes.

 

[Jasede]

Kreia is the only woman I'd ever marry. B)

(But we'd never, you know... because that's just gross, you can't do that with a girl, eww.)

 

[Jedi_Learner]

Care to post some examples Skyshit?

 

[Jasede]

Well, for one, Kreia loves the Exile. Sounds like caring to me. She also cares deeply about Revan.

 

[Volourn]

She didn't give a shit about the Exile. She tried to fuckion' murder him for fuck sake. Not to mention the constant bullshit she spewed, the lies, and the rest of the shit she does to him. LMAO About her loving Revan. Fuck. She must of used her mind tricks to brainwash. Fuck.

If you think that's love, I feel sorry for you.

 

[Unradscorpion]

I think Kreia is the same alignment as V from V for Vendetta, they both fought against a large force for revenge while at the same time they fought it for everyone. They also would sacrifice anyone for their goal.
Only Kreia didn't win the fight so she turned completely evil.

 

[Jasede]

You should feel sorry for -her-, Volourn. She never tried to murder the Exile. Make him stronger by conflict, yes. She believed that only in battle he could express himself since she was an Ech-

wtf.

This is stupid. Nobody cares. Either like the game or don't, who the fuck cares? How nerdy to argue this!

 

[Azarkon]

Not to intrude on a Volourn-vs-Codex match, but how the hell was Revan a great character?

"MUAHAHAHA I AM THE DARK LORD OF THE SITH. OOPS, I BUMPED MY HEAD AND FORGOT EVERYTHING. O WELLZ I GUESS IM A NOBODY AGAIN."

 

[MetalCraze]

actually oh so good-hearted jedi council who represents only the force of light according to Volly erased his memory in order to use him as a marionette.
no wonder that sooner or later somebody would've got so pissed of about it that she would eliminate all of them.

 

[Volourn]

Who said I said that the Jedi wer eperfect little angels? Dumbass.

 

[Jasede]

Not to intrude on a Volourn-vs-Codex match, but how the hell was Revan a great character?

"MUAHAHAHA I AM THE DARK LORD OF THE SITH. OOPS, I BUMPED MY HEAD AND FORGOT EVERYTHING. O WELLZ I GUESS IM A NOBODY AGAIN."

Revan is awful in Kotor 1; but well fleshed out in Kotor 2; just talk to HK - a comedy character who Avellone turned into an actual believable creature - much to the ire of Kotor 1 fans.

 

[Mareus]

Oh for fucks sake will you guys just forget this Kreia discussion already. Yes she is 100 times better character than both Revan and Malak together, but that does not make Kotor 2 one of the best games ever. I have to say that I loved 3/4 of Kotor 2 much more than Kotor 1, but the last 1/4 of Kotor 2 was so horrible that it was barely playable.

Yes the story is deeper and darker. Yes the characters are better, but the fact remains Kotor 2 was rushed and the result is almost unplayable last 1/4 of the game. The whole story in the last 1/4 of the game that should be about big revelation is nothing more than a bunch of crap put together so the game could be published in time. I still laugh when I remember how Obsidian made sure to create uber motherfucker sith who can kill whole planets with force, only to be defeated in one quick mission by my party. Yes, it is explained how and why, but goddamn it should have been much, much more. Also, being betrayed by the jedi masters is something so not jedi-like. Then Kreia defeating 3 jedi masters in 1 second made me do the biggest facepalm I have ever done while playing a game. But it gets better, .. all the tension and the story that was masterfully woven for 3/4 of the game suddenly turns into ilogical hack and slash, so you could defeat the sith lords and in the end face Kreia, which somehow managed to kill 3 jedi masters in 1 second, but she couldn't defeat poor old me even with 6 jedi swords. I mean come on.. And not only that, but even during those great 3/4 of the game, there are holes in the story which you just cannot miss. I played the game a long time ago, but I still remember how confused I was when Kreia lost her hand and then came back to your party. I didn't trust her, but the game just skips that part and forces her onto you. And the whole wound in the force concept is just bloody oh come on, you have to be kidding me. And what about all the characters being force sensitive? I mean bloody hell... You can bend the rules or the lore a bit, but this was just too much.

Kotor 1 was atleast much more consistent even if a lot more predictable and cliche.

 

[Jasede]

No, Mareus. The ending story is as intended. Kreia died because she wanted to. She never intended to live! She believed that by killing her, you become the perfect student. The whole game is about you, the exile, becoming a worthy pupil to her who, in the end overcomes her teachings.

There -is- no big revelation. That's how Avellone intended it. That's what makes the game good, at least to me. There's no big twist; no unpredictable revelation at the end. There's just you, the student, and your master, who, in loving you, is defeated by you so you can-

Urgh I'm doing it again.

Just read the damn Let's Play fully. It's better than playing the game. Shame on Obsidian and Lucas Arts that, to make a good/decent game great someone had to dissect it and add the cut content, as well as spell out Avellone's ideas to push it into the realm of "very good"; which, and Volourn is quite right, shouldn't really be considered since you can only judge a game on what you get.

 

[Mareus]

No, Mareus. The ending story is as intended. Kreia died because she wanted to. She never intended to live! She believed that by killing her, you become the perfect student. The whole game is about you, the exile, becoming a worthy pupil to her who, in the end overcomes her teachings.

There -is- no big revelation. That's how Avellone intended it. That's what makes the game good, at least to me. There's no big twist; no unpredictable revelation at the end. There's just you, the student, and your master, who, in loving you, is defeated by you so you can-

Urgh I'm doing it again.

Just read the damn Let's Play fully. It's better than playing the game. Shame on Obsidian and Lucas Arts that, to make a good/decent game great someone had to dissect it and add the cut content, as well as spell out Avellone's ideas to push it into the realm of "very good"; which, and Volourn is quite right, shouldn't really be considered since you can only judge a game on what you get.

That was not my point Jasede. My problem with Kotor 2 ending is with the way everything ends too fast. Basicly, after Kreia fries 3 jedi masters in one second, you kill the badass "i can kill planets with force" guy in one quick mission. Then 30 minutes later you kill the second badass. Then you face Kreia and it's over. All the tension and great story that was masterfully woven for 3/4 of the game ends in less than 2 hours of hack and slash in the end with very bad explanation. If the game had another 5-6 hours to it, with more content in the last 1/4 it would trully be a masterpiece 10 times better than Kotor1. The end ruined everything.

 

[Gragt]

So we know that Obsidian is unhappy with the current state of the game, Chris Avellone himself publicly apologized for it and said he only should take the blame for things that did not work in the game. It is hardly a secret: KotOR2 is a flawed masterpiece. You do not bring anything new on the table.

It seems you were conditioned to expect and take for granted some aspects in a game and if these are not present then the game sucks. Well tough luck. I just do not know what you expect though, maybe you can try suing Bioware or Square for messing your brain up.

 

[Wyrmlord]

HK - a comedy character who Avellone turned into an actual believable creature - much to the ire of Kotor 1 fans.

You know what's funny? David Gaider who created HK-47 didn't particularly think much of his character and was surprised by how popular he became.

 

[kris]

For me it is hard to see how anyone can find Kreia to be a likeable person. I can on the other hand understand how people find her an interesting character.

I liked both games for different reasons and I don't feel like putting any disclaimers on that.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Bottom line is Kreia is evil. She fits the very defintion of evil. Selfish, no qualms when it comes to murder even innocents, full of hatred, and plain old f ashion scummy behaviour.

Wrong.
2 examples:

1. Nar Shadda - The guy who begs for credits:

a) you give him credits - Kreia thinks it's bad, because people are jealous and others get hurt.
b) you tell him to gtfo - Kreia thinks it's bad, because people are angry and others get hurt.

2. When you achieve one of the first unnecessary killings on civilians:
"Are psychotic urges all that drives you?" (influence lost).

And I bet I'd find more if I thought about it.

 

[Mareus]

So we know that Obsidian is unhappy with the current state of the game, Chris Avellone himself publicly apologized for it and said he only should take the blame for things that did not work in the game. It is hardly a secret: KotOR2 is a flawed masterpiece. You do not bring anything new on the table.

It seems you were conditioned to expect and take for granted some aspects in a game and if these are not present then the game sucks. Well tough luck. I just do not know what you expect though, maybe you can try suing Bioware or Square for messing your brain up.

Hey asswipe, I never said Kotor 2 sucked. I just said it doesn't score much better than Kotor 1, because the ending sucked.

 

[Volourn]

"Yes the story is deeper and darker. Yes the characters are better,"

Simply not true.


"1. Nar Shadda - The guy who begs for credits:

a) you give him credits - Kreia thinks it's bad, because people are jealous and others get hurt.
b) you tell him to gtfo - Kreia thinks it's bad, because people are angry and others get hurt."

So, she's psycho? She expects you to sit on your thumbs and twiddle them? She has no way of knowthing any of this. She's not a psyhic. Evenw rose, I have no empathy for her 'cause her motivations are retarded, illogical, an djust plain delusional. That's the big difference between her and Ravel. I actually feel symapthy for Ravel depsitev the fact she's an evil hag.


"2. When you achieve one of the first unnecessary killings on civilians:
"Are psychotic urges all that drives you?" (influence lost)."

This coming for a woman who has no problems killing innocents herself, and letting them being kill. She's a piece of shit eveil scumbag.

 

[Darth Roxor]

So, she's psycho?

I think you need to look into the dictionary.

She expects you to sit on your thumbs and twiddle them?

It's called neutrality.

She has no way of knowthing any of this. She's not a psyhic.

Judging by the fact that she is able to discover Atton's past, even though he has been specifically trained against mind-probing pretty much shows she is a psychic, a good one at it too.

This coming for a woman who has no problems killing innocents herself, and letting them being kill.

Prove it.
And you do realise, that you are trying to contradict things that are said in the game?