Kotor 1 destroys my brain cells. The pain... Aaaargh!!!

[Iznaliu]

Yes. Have you heard of something called a game? Is chess a good game because of writing? Is Football (not soccer, which is like field hockey and other girl sports and doesn't count when talking about men sports) a good game because of writing?

The mechanics are passable and worth it to experience the quality writing.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Is chess a good game because of writing? Is Football (not soccer, which is like field hockey and other girl sports and doesn't count when talking about men sports) a good game because of writing?

Chess is a competitive game, retarded comparison.
Sports fans that i know are waaaaay into the writing/articles/drama/etc./etc. that surrounds their chosen sport. Retarded comparison.
And yes, manuals can be a treat, dom3/4 and FO1/2 come to mind. I bet there's a great remote-control manual out there somewhere.

How do you manage to keep coming off as such a fucking retard

 

[YES!]

Is chess a good game because of writing? Is Football (not soccer, which is like field hockey and other girl sports and doesn't count when talking about men sports) a good game because of writing?

Chess is a competitive game, retarded comparison.
Sports fans that i know are waaaaay into the writing/articles/drama/etc./etc. that surrounds their chosen sport. Retarded comparison.
And yes, manuals can be a treat, dom3/4 and FO1/2 come to mind. I bet there's a great remote-control manual out there somewhere.

How do you manage to keep coming off as such a fucking retard

So a well written game is a good game? A sport that sucks can be good because of the well written articles about it. And there is a very fun to read remote control manual.

Got it. I manage to come off as such as retard because you guys are so smart and make such great arguments. How can I compete with geniuses like you who have really thought the issues through and have mastered reasoning and logic?

 

[Starwars]

I tried to replay KOTOR2 (which I always liked more than the first) last year and just couldn't do it. It fucking sucks. It having some interesting writing does not save it.

 

[Old One]

It fucking sucks.

It's the most consistently overrated cRPG on the Codex.

 

[oldmanpaco]

It fucking sucks.

It's the most consistently overrated cRPG on the Codex.

Thought that was New Vegas?

 

[Morality Games]

It's not overrated, but you get two playthroughs out of it: Light and Dark. If you only enjoy one, of those you get one play through.

It doesn't help that the first 5-10 hours are a slog. It is a story-driven game where the story takes awhile to get going.

 

[Old One]

KOTOR2 is an ugly NWN2 mod with poorly designed locations, lightsabers that can't cut through anything, and a villain that looks like a cross between a transvestite nun and the Phantom of the Opera. It starts out bland and gets worse.

The Old Republic is a garbage setting. They took the setting of Star Wars, copied it, then replaced everything in it with pseudo-instances: pseudo-stormtroopers, pseudo-R2D2, pseudo-C3PO, pseudo-Millennium Falcon. It's supposed to be thousands of years before the events of the movies, but everything is exactly the same...except it has a slightly different name and looks a little bit different. It's a stunning example of low-effort marketing.

NWN2 d20 mechanics don't fit Star Wars at all, mainly because very little effort was made to adapt them - because d20 is supposed to work for anything, I guess. The d20 mechanics as expressed in NWN are pretty bad to begin with, and when you jam them into Star Wars without radical revision, they become nonsensical.

Dark Jedi Masters are trash mobs.

In KOTOR1 you had to work to become a Jedi, but in KOTOR2 you start as a Jedi, and all your stupid companions can become Jedi Knights, no matter how emotionally unstable and unworthy they are. All it takes is some sweet talking and a cutscene. Everyone is a winner!

In Star Wars movies, the pattern is to shift from an artificial location, to an organic location, to a new artificial location, to a new and radically different organic location. For example, you have a battle on Princess Leia's ship, followed by an adventure in the deserts on Tatooine, followed by a battle in space and an adventure on a space station, followed by a landing on Yavin 4. KOTOR2 violates this by moving you from ugly man-made Peragus to ugly man-made location number 2 to ugly man-made location number 3. Even KOTOR1 did this better than KOTOR2.

The writing isn't nearly as good as it's reputation, and it if weren't for Kreia's excellent voice-acting, it would be held in much lower regard. On the whole, it's a pretentious, ham-fisted attempt to combine Sith philosopy with Friedrich Nietzsche. Beyond that, the actual events of the game make very little logical sense.

HK-47 was the lone bright spot from KOTOR1, so in KOTOR2 they tried to make more of him, but even that's a failure. It's a hollow echo, like someone trying to write jokes "in the style of" a successful comedian.

If you absolutely must play a Star Wars game, play Star Wars: Jedi Academy instead. At least the lightsaber fights are fun.

 

[oldmanpaco]

Didn't hate these games as much as you but yeah Jedi Academy is probably the best starwars game to play these days.

 

[Iznaliu]

It doesn't help that the first 5-10 hours are a slog. It is a story-driven game where the story takes awhile to get going.

Peragus is underrated.

 

[Morality Games]

It doesn't help that the first 5-10 hours are a slog. It is a story-driven game where the story takes awhile to get going.

Peragus is underrated.

In the same respect novel beginnings are underrated.

It's fine if you have a thoughtful, meditative attitude and patiently soak in the Star Warsy atmosphere.

From a conventional gaming point-of-view, it is terrible.

 

[Beastro]

It was OK game but really overshadowed by sequel; but if you want to have cool Jedi/Sith fights play Academy instead; I remember to gimp myself playing first time by leveling my soldier to 8 level... the sweet innocent times before Jewtube and walkthroughs; what is still good; the HK-47, Korriban and Dantoine... rest felt like theme park and Card Cuckasi was really annyoying; specially if you chosen to play as wombyn.

Going evil and having the goodie shitheads turn on you at the end, then cutting em all down was very satisfying.

KOTOR1 is like a bowl of ramen (or instant noodle) cooked carefully and competently.

Sure, it's just noodles (with a few optional things). Sure, it's not haute cuisine.

But whenever you get a whiff of it and you can resist the urge to make a bowl of your own to eat, you are faggot.

And like such noodles you instantly regret eating it once it's polished off and you start to feel how much that flood of salt and "food" is doing to your insides?

 

[YES!]

I like all the people making grand statements like D20 doesn't fit Star Wars. Yes, it is D20s fault and has nothing to do with implementation. There are rpgs that prove D20 is a decent system, such as ToEE. NWN and Kotors had a retard version of it made for the retarded audience they game was made for. Also, for non TB, look at DDO for a great implementation that din;t lead to retard combat for retards.

I also like how Jedi Academy is being recommended a lot. Since I have never heard of this game it must not be an rpg, which further proves my point about this site and its community.

 

[Nutria]

The writing isn't nearly as good as it's reputation, and it if weren't for Kreia's excellent voice-acting, it would be held in much lower regard. On the whole, it's a pretentious, ham-fisted attempt to combine Sith philosopy with Friedrich Nietzsche. Beyond that, the actual events of the game make very little logical sense.

My impression is that Kreia was supposed to be kind of pretentious and ham-fisted, and after the big plot twist she gets called out on it. But since it was released incomplete, it's hard to even guess what the ending was supposed to be. It makes about as much sense as a European art house film made by students on LSD.

On the other hand, Avellone is the guy who wrote Alpha Protocol so we know he's capable of being ham-fisted throughout a whole story.

 

[Nutria]

It doesn't help that the first 5-10 hours are a slog. It is a story-driven game where the story takes awhile to get going.

Peragus is underrated.

In the same respect novel beginnings are underrated.

It's fine if you have a thoughtful, meditative attitude and patiently soak in the Star Warsy atmosphere.

From a conventional gaming point-of-view, it is terrible.

One of my problems with Peragus is that it doesn't really have a Star Warsy atmosphere. It tries to rip off System Shock 2, but it doesn't have the dark, claustrophobic setting to pull that off either.

 

[Beastro]

In Star Wars movies, the pattern is to shift from an artificial location, to an organic location, to a new artificial location, to a new and radically different organic location. For example, you have a battle on Princess Leia's ship, followed by an adventure in the deserts on Tatooine, followed by a battle in space and an adventure on a space station, followed by a landing on Yavin 4. KOTOR2 violates this by moving you from ugly man-made Peragus to ugly man-made location number 2 to ugly man-made location number 3. Even KOTOR1 did this better than KOTOR2.

My.... God..... I never knew!

I've heard of some atrocities committed through history, but this one takes the cake!

How DARE you Obsidian for this crime!

(how does Empire Strikes Back fit into this though?)

 

[Starwars]

Peragus was never well thought of until that dude did a KOTOR2 let's play (the one that pointed out all the cut content) and said that it's so misunderstood. Then everyone went "omg its so brilliant, you see its more like a System Shock 2 homage, you just dont get it!11!"

It's a really shitty level and it does not achieve what it tries to do in the least. You can see the potential but it's terrible to play.

 

[Nutria]

Peragus was never well thought of until that dude did a KOTOR2 let's play (the one that pointed out all the cut content) and said that it's so misunderstood. Then everyone went "omg its so brilliant, you see its more like a System Shock 2 homage, you just dont get it!11!"

Homage? Ha! I haven't heard that one yet. It was obvious to me the first time I played it because of the "ghosts" acting out what had happened before they died. When you copy something so directly just a few years after the original came out, it's not an "homage", it's a rip-off.

 

[Commissar Draco]

My beef with Peragus is that it offers Biowerian illusion of choice; all you change in the end is who blow the whole thing up; you can't decide to kill or leave neither Kreia nor Atton all the miners are long dead too so its all pointless aside from being very long and unskipable tutorial. Its quite fun when you do this first time and inserting the choices from prequel into conversation with Atton is neat but skip peragus mod is the must in second play-through.

 

[Black]

It fucking sucks.

It's the most consistently overrated cRPG on the Codex.

Thought that was New Vegas?

Nope, bg 2.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Don't blaspheme, Black.

 

[Black]

That's why the Codex is for. To blaspheme against all the wrong normie opinions.

 

[Mangoose]

No, books and movies and plays can be good because of writing, which tells a good story. A well written remote control guide isn't a good reading. A game is only good when it is a good game. When it has the mechanics and systems that make it a fun game to play. If a game's only good quality is writing it could be a well written shit game but is still a shit game that should have been a book.

Choices and consequences are mechanics. You're write that righting is not a mechanic, however.

 

[Zanzoken]

I have beaten both KOTOR but have no interest in touching them again. The only reason to play them is if you are a Star Wars fanboy or storyfag. Even then you should stick to the main stories and a few interesting characters -- the gameplay is awful so just get yourself a double lightsaber and spam Flurry to zoom through it.

I wish someone would make a good turn-based Star Wars combat system though.

 

[mbv123]

I never got the hate for Peragus. Yes, it's a bit long, but it's pretty spooky and if you read all the miner's logs and holograms, the backstory is quite neat with the HK unit wreaking havoc just because it wants you dead.
Taris is fucking boring as shit with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. You're stuck with the most boring goody shoes party members for the most of it and you hurt yourself in the long run if you level up your character in there.