KickStarter Knights of the Chalice 2 Thread - Augury of Chaos

[Desiderius]

Or you could Summon with the Wiz. Wiz starts with xBow prof.

Improved Energy Missile gets pretty good for Psi pretty fast, as does Improved Mind Hammer/Improved Stomp.

 

[Yosharian]

I have been summoning but I see quite a bit of overlap between the Psion and the Red Wizard and I can't help but wonder if it's not necessary, I know it will make the lategame easier but..

 

[Abu Antar]

Just go with it. It's worth it, imo.

 

[Desiderius]

I have been summoning but I see quite a bit of overlap between the Psion and the Red Wizard and I can't help but wonder if it's not necessary, I know it will make the lategame easier but..

It covers Arcana and Psionics. Psionic gets Demoralize which can be spammed and doesn’t get Summons. Wiz gets Haste at lvl 5.

Ah, Red Wiz is second Wiz, got it. Yeah that would be a slog. Cheap Empower/Max doesn’t kick in for awhile.

Mantis Rogue makes more cash and can cast scrolls late while getting infinite attax.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Your Bishop (not Cleric obv) doesn’t have max CHR because you’re blowing it on INT that does nothing. CHR gives you both activations and DC.

Your summons suck because your Elf doesn’t have enough Feats to make them good.

My first party had a bishop with the aberration domain and the summon feats.
It was good back then because chapters 1 & 2 were brutal and in Chapter 1, the tentacled horror is overpowered and would carry you through it.

Now, you get there at level 4/5 instead of 2, aside from a full caster party, you have absolutely no need of it.
Later, if you keep on using it, it'll try to grapple everything regardless of the success rate and be utterly useless.

Same for TU, the damage sucks, there's no additional effects, any fire spell does 3 or 4 times the damage TU does, and even way more when you start to empower or maximize.

Next time I pick a Bishop, i'll make use of its 6 Domains to turn him into a Paladin with more spells or even a zen archer, which could be interesting for the Hearkenwold module.

Also, my current Cleric is Moon Elf M 6 - 12 - 9 (will get +1 from the fountain) - 20 - 16 - 18(CHA).
It's certainly suboptimal, I'd rather get 17+1 CON, 10 DEX and 10 INT but I want to grab the hidden stash in the forge, I couldn't during my last two runs and it haunts me, I think there is magic diamonds there.

At level 2, he does 3 TU damage to the shadows from the village night quests and they have 2X and 3X HP...
With life + flux domains and healing feat, you can kill one with one light healing spell...

A great bishop would be life + curing + healing + flux + magic + mysticism.
Mass cure spells would do wonders later, either to heal or to kill undead.

I was thinking of ditching my Red Wizard for a Death Knight. I need more melee, my party is too caster-heavy, it's just really painful having so much dead weight around at the low levels rn. The new party would be:

1) Fighter TWF
2) Cleric Caster/Summoner
3) Geomancer Druid Caster
4) Psion
5) White Wizard
6 & 7) Jorad & Pizarra
+ the DK.

What do you guys think, is that a mistake or? Would you recommend a different melee class instead?

With 5 magic users, you'll find the DK invaluable, his aura of dread do wonders.

 

[Desiderius]

I can buy most of that. Aberrations been somewhat disappointing compared to the Inevitable from Justice. A Summoning Domain does make clearing Finchbury at lvl 1/2 (including Spiders) much more routine and adds staying power for Sword quest. Obv that's with the Augment Summoning (and optional Summoning Mastery) you can afford with Human.

Standard action Elementals (leaving Move Action for Bless/Prayer from Mysticism) have been solid and the bigger ones show up right around the time the little ones go (mostly) obsolete but yeah I think Magic Domain is probably better? There are a lot of ways to go, including yes Hunting.

Healing Undead is fine but Turning Domain isn't just for Undead and, again, if you're trying to turn those ghosts without Turning Domain you're wasting your time. Turning Domain also opens up dialogue and gives you Superior Concentration for free.

You don't have to have an Elf for Forge, Rogue can get it or any character with high INT by that point (I think, will need to make sure ). I'll check tonight exactly what's there but I think mostly more Ice Scrolls. You know you get two characters for Forge, right? Summoning a tank for Salamander makes that fight reasonably routine. Even if he burns through one you just Summon another.

20 INT on a Bishop is literally wasting 12 stat points. Seriously man get a grip.

 

[Humbaba]

How "hard" is this game exactly? Is it hard like JA2 is hard i.e. a matter or mastering the game's mechanics or is it hard as in "any party that hasn't been autistically minmaxxed is doomed because number not big enough"?

 

[Darth Canoli]

How "hard" is this game exactly? Is it hard like JA2 is hard i.e. a matter or mastering the game's mechanics or is it hard as in "any party that hasn't been autistically minmaxxed is doomed because number not big enough"?

It depends on the difficulty settings you pick.
If you pick the original difficulty (Very hard), autistic all the way up until you get enough knowledge of the rules and the module and at this point, it's not about minmaxing (through, you'll do it anyway) but rather superior tactics, knowing the tools at your disposal and when to use them.

But you could and probably should buy the game and then start by installing Dorateen's Hearkenwold module from Nexusmods, it's more beginner friendly, even if some encounters are brutal.

Or maybe start with the tutorial then Hearkenwold and then Augury of Chaos (the main module).

TLDR: Preset difficulty settings or customized and start with the tutorial and Herakenwold fan mod.

You don't have to have an Elf for Forge, Rogue can get it or any character with high INT by that point (I think, will need to make sure ). I'll check tonight exactly what's there but I think mostly more Ice Scrolls. You know you get two characters for Forge, right? Summoning a tank for Salamander makes that fight reasonably routine. Even if he burns through one you just Summon another.

20 WIS and 16 INT.
I'll never bring a rogue to the Salamander fight on Archmage, losing means game over, you need one caster (Cleric, Bishop or Druid work well) and one brutal fighter (DK, Fighter, Barbarian).
You also need some healing, a fighter (type) in order not to get fatigued after climbing and a high search DC (not sure how high).

As for Turning:

Turning: Your Turn Undead attempts deal an extra 2d6 points of damage, and their Difficulty Class increases by two points. The turning bonus increases to 3d6 at level 7 and 4d6 at level 14. You also gain the feats Superior Concentration and Extra Turning for free. Supernatural. This domain is also associated with reversion, conversion, transformation and meditation.

+2 DC and +7 TU damage early on.
I see no reason to waste a domain on this.
So what, you will spend a feat to turn elementals (they're never a problem) and dragons (I'm sure you can kill one in about 30 turns trying to TU, oh wait, you don't have that many uses per day, bummer ...)

Undead take +50% fire damage, that's all you need to know, dragons > skewer, elementals gets nuked by mages and psionicists or you eventually kill them with your fighters.

TLDR
I think you have a Turn Undead fetish problem.
I'd rather have a foot fetish problem than this...

 

[Desiderius]

Says the guy who doesn't even test. Turning itself scales by lvl/2, is thirty feet enemies only (it *heals* two members of my party), *and the Domain scales too*. I've been over all the other stuff.

Now the interesting thing to me is that I've always hated in-combat healing but after that Pizarra fight yeah it might be pretty good in which case Healing/Curing is definitely a way you can go.

Rogue and Bishop are fine for Forge because unlike Fighter Rogue can use all the Ice Scrolls it gives you. And what do you know my Bishop can even use his Turning there to heal the Summoned tank while burning the foes. Yes with the Summoning Feats you can summon a tank that can live.

In any case 16 INT on a Bishop is just really a bad idea.

 

[Darth Canoli]

We can agree on that last point but I'm playing with my 16 INT Cleric nonetheless and I doubt it's going to be an issue.


The psychic warrior is really underwhelming so far (built STR/WIS - reach weapon) and the mantis gladiator isn't very good either but at least, he can tank.
The Paladin (STR/CHA and some WIS - sword/shield) is decent, smite does the job.

The Cleric and the Barbarian are really killing it, the Fighter holds his own and the Storm warrior quicksands and summons.

Having no psion nor wizard really hurts but I'm starting to appreciate some cleric spells I barely used until now.
I guess Pizarra fight is going to be tough and the Castle as well.

I'm trying to bank xp once more, tried to stay level 1 for some time and beat the swords cave level 3, even with the reduced combat xp, I almost reached 10K before the goblin invasion but made a lot of fights way more painful than it should have been.

If a scarce caster party or no casters but divine party can win, Fighter (for wade in later) and a Half-Giant Barbarian (incredible damage) should be included.
Maybe a Whirlwind Samurai (Reach + Skewer later with a good reach weapon if there is one)

 

[covr]

I've just met spider queen. What the actual fuck?

 

[covr]

I loved the game until now. This is shit.

 

[Desiderius]

We can agree on that last point but I'm playing with my 16 INT Cleric nonetheless and I doubt it's going to be an issue.


The psychic warrior is really underwhelming so far (built STR/WIS - reach weapon) and the mantis gladiator isn't very good either but at least, he can tank.
The Paladin (STR/CHA and some WIS - sword/shield) is decent, smite does the job.

The Cleric and the Barbarian are really killing it, the Fighter holds his own and the Storm warrior quicksands and summons.

Having no psion nor wizard really hurts but I'm starting to appreciate some cleric spells I barely used until now.
I guess Pizarra fight is going to be tough and the Castle as well.

I'm trying to bank xp once more, tried to stay level 1 for some time and beat the swords cave level 3, even with the reduced combat xp, I almost reached 10K before the goblin invasion but made a lot of fights way more painful than it should have been.

If a scarce caster party or no casters but divine party can win, Fighter (for wade in later) and a Half-Giant Barbarian (incredible damage) should be included.
Maybe a Whirlwind Samurai (Reach + Skewer later with a good reach weapon if there is one)

I mean doesn't Fighter have a couple things that use INT? You're choosing the one class you're playing that really has a use for both WIS and CHR instead of everybody else (Pal same boat as Cleric) who barely need more than one stat. I'd have very hard time not just going Mysticism and Reach on Cleric.

 

[Darth Canoli]

I mean doesn't Fighter have a couple things that use INT? You're choosing the one class you're playing that really has a use for both WIS and CHR instead of everybody else who barely need more than one stat.

Fighter needs 13 DEX way more than 13 INT and he needs some CON as well, particularly on a low caster party where I'm not going to mop the floor with a psion/wiz trio.
I think mine has 20 STR, 14 CON, 13 INT/DEX 8 WIS 6 CHA and probably one more point somewhere.

I loved the game until now. This is shit.

One should grow some hair on his chest before playing KotC 2...

 

[Tweed]

I loved the game until now. This is shit.

If you can't beat Settram you can't clear the front gate.

 

[Desiderius]

needs some CON as well

I've been doing 12 CON on everybody with more on pure casters that can spare the stats easier both for Concentration and so I don't have to re-roll levels.

 

[Yosharian]

Bank XP? Why?

 

[Darth Roxor]

You get more XP from fights if you're underlevelled.

 

[Modron]

You get more XP from fights if you're underlevelled.

Does it follow the pattern of IWD 2 with average party level determining how much XP from combat you get so you can cheese it by carrying 1-2 level one character(s) with you? Or does it just go by highest party member?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Does it follow the pattern of IWD 2 with average party level determining how much XP from combat you get so you can cheese it by carrying 1-2 level one character(s) with you? Or does it just go by highest party member?

I think the gain/calculation is individual so no.
But if your whole party is underlevelled, they all get more xp and if you carry one level 1 dude to a big fight, he'll get a shitload of xp.

To my knowledge, fight xp is split evenly between members then each character gets a multiplier which is somewhat fight CR/this character CR.
So, smaller parties also get a xp boost.
A 6 men party gain 25% more xp (individually, it's the same total) than a a party of 8.

So it's not a cheat, more like a risk/reward situation, the more risks (lower level char) you take, the more xp they get.
Useful for crafting and even more useful for iron man runs.
Also, it helps a lot if you know when things are going to get hairy so you can bank xp up until some choke points where you go all in and get there a few level ahead compared to a game where you level up right away.

Also, any companion you recruit gets an xp boost if your party has on average more xp than him.

 

[Yosharian]

Do characters that aren't currently in your selected party, but are recruited, get XP or do they get nothing like in BG2

 

[Darth Canoli]

Do characters that aren't currently in your selected party, but are recruited, get XP or do they get nothing like in BG2

They get nothing, xp is split among active members.
But you can get free xp for Asharazelle if you wait as much as you can to recruit her, same for Erzimon, Jorad and Xantrix, except on a way smaller scale.


Also, there's a weird bug I've been experiencing on and off for a long time and with many different builds.
Pierre can't reproduce it, I can't reproduce it either.

During the disappearing sword quest / village.
There's 3 encounters with sentient rats, gnolls and orcs.
Sometimes, only the leader is engaged in the fight, the other are neutral and can't be targetted.
I got it in the first rat encounter this time, usually, it was the second with gnolls.
Except if I reload, it doesn't happen anymore.

Did anyone experience it as well?
If you do and have additional info, it'd be much appreciated if you could report it with details and even attach a save file to it.

 

[Darth Canoli]

First reload in front of the crypt against the elementals.
They got the surprise round, and in 3 turns, they threw 2 stinking clouds, one web, one fireball, 2 electric spheres, a couple of magic missiles...

The good news is I passed the first part of the crypt with a level 3 party (psy warrior and storm warrior are level 4).
The bone dragon was a real pain to deal with and I had to use light and moderate healing to dispatch the vampire.
I think it's time to level up.

I was thinking about not using Pizarra but I'm not sure it's possible to do it without her with my current party.
I'll have to pick Pizarra before the Lizard's King & Hydra fight.

 

[Mortmal]

I loved the game until now. This is shit.

It was way worse before steam release, and unless its changed you are getting worse fights after that.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Once more unto the breach.

I'm pretty sure this party is going to crash and burn terribly because it has 3 characters I have awful prior experience with (Pally, Cleric, Ranger), 2 that don't seem particularly amazing (Mage Knight, Death Knight) and only 1 that I know is gud (Psionicist).

Dis gon be gud