Killing kids: why and why not?

[howlingFantods]

The ability to choose your character(s) actions within a relatively open-ended system is a cardinal feature of roleplaying games. Therefore, a greater and more diverse range of choices could only strengthen the fundamental heart of what an RPG is.
Player freedom is and should always be a priority.

However, given that games are composed of finite code, only so many player choices can be accommodated for. Furthermore, the strictures of taboos and moral doctrine can impinge upon a game in the form of censorship for various reasons. So naturally the game developers have to draw the line somewhere.

My question for you all is:
Where is that line for you personally? When has a game gone too far and when has it not gone far enough? And why?

For me, I think that killing kids is a pretty basic freedom to afford a player because it's easy to implement and it's pretty immersion-shattering when your sociopathic serial killer is hacking away at a kid who is passively making your sword look like a pool noodle.

However, if a game implemented animal rape, or allowed me to do something else which was ridiculously gross, specific and odd, then in that case I'd probably have to say that the developers had crossed a line. I wouldn't want them to be censored (as a strong proponent of free speech) but I'd definitely also not want to play their creepy ass game. Because in the end when you give a player an option your encouraging them to take it to some degree.

 

[kinzadza]

I wish to raise undead corpses and have sex with them

 

[Haba]

Children are not very interesting.

 

[Commissar Draco]

If this is work of fiction, accessible to adult people only and no living people are including anything goes. If you do feel offended by this... well you have proven to be NPC.

 

[user]

Having kids in your game and making them immortal or unresponsive to the environment sucks. They only remind you of how artificial everything is. Better not to have them at all. Remember getting banned in the old beth forums for just mentioning that mod. The rest require new animations, fx etc, resources better spent elsewhere, imho. Btw, nice try FBI.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Because in the end when you give a player an option your encouraging them to take it to some degree.

Location:
California

Is there some kind of connection between these things?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Why not: because it would kill sales.
Most countries would flat out ban a game that allowed you to kill children. It would get them an AO(Adults Only) rating from the ESRB and therefore be prohibited from being sold on any major console platform in USA.

 

[laclongquan]

Children only is interesting in Japanese games with kawai art and animation specifically for that. Otherwise it's meh.

 

[Darth Canoli]

How morally depraved of player choices do you want to be given?

I want to be able to go medieval on AAA devs in my cRPG.

 

[aeroaeko]

Children lack the life experience and complexities required to be compelling characters. I can't think of a single memorable child character

 

[Abhay]

Video games are mainly targeted at younger audiences, even though adults are also interested in them. Killing kids isn't really an issue, its the presentation and depiction of any given scenario in games that attracts certain groups to be hurting whatever sentiments.

The more detailed and accessible the scenes are, the higher are the chances of offending the sentiments of the people.

Present those same situations in pixelated, blocky and dated visuals. It might fly over the heads of the critics to even notice their existence in the game.

 

[Shin]

I draw the line at rape. Call me a left-wing liberal hippy son-of-a-bitch if you want. Killing kids is often a functional thing since you might not want any witnesses to a crime you just committed or they end up on the chopping block because of collateral damage. Raping people.. meh, it's just tasteless and doesn't server any purpose unless you're LARPing some kind of maniac (EDIT: or you are some kind of maniac I guess).

 

[mondblut]

My question for you all is:
Where is that line for you personally? When has a game gone too far and when has it not gone far enough? And why?

When kittehs are harmed.

For humans, anything goes.

Because in the end when you give a player an option your encouraging them to take it to some degree.

I'll remember to use that line in the court if I ever get caught.

 

[Mark Richard]

I wish to raise undead corpses and have sex with them

Dragon Commander might serve your purposes.

 

[vota DC]

Eating kids is ok. Killing without eating them doesn't make sense: they are poor and not dangerous. Commies said they are tasty.

 

[Deleted Member 22431]

Now I divide in my head every cRPG I played between the ones with kids and the ones without them. Goddamnit!

 

[Neanderthal]

If you kill kids Chris Avellone'll come after you.

Fallout did it right, as usual.

 

[howlingFantods]

Because in the end when you give a player an option your encouraging them to take it to some degree.
Location: California

Is there some kind of connection between these things?

I'll remember to use that line in the court if I ever get caught.

I knew I'd get shit for this. But I thought someone would make me laugh (at myself). So I left it in and was not disappointed

 

[Sranchammer]

Killing anyone should be prohibited in video games.

Period.

 

[Sacred82]

being able to kill everyone has never made a game better/ game world more realistic.

And the funniest thing is the whiners who want to be able to finish the game no matter whom they killed

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I draw the line at rape. Call me a left-wing liberal hippy son-of-a-bitch if you want. Killing kids is often a functional thing since you might not want any witnesses to a crime you just committed or they end up on the chopping block because of collateral damage. Raping people.. meh, it's just tasteless and doesn't server any purpose unless you're LARPing some kind of maniac (EDIT: or you are some kind of maniac I guess).

Found Avellone's alt.

 

[JarlFrank]

It depends on the overall possibilities the game offers you.

Rape is an extreme example and I wouldn't expect any RPGs to include it, for it would require the coding of a new gameplay mechanic, or at the very least new animations, just to be edgy and controversial.

But killing children just requires you to apply to children the very same rules that apply to all other NPCs. If your game allows you to attack and kill neutral NPCs, and you can kill any man and woman in the world, but children are for some reason invincible... your game feels contrived and unrealistic because an option that works universally on every NPC in the game suddenly doesn't work on children. They get a special rules exemption. The rules of the game don't apply to them. This breaks the immersion and the logic of the game, and therefore it feels artificial and forced, like the devs just wanted to dodge a controversy. But if there is no option to attack NPCs in towns anyway (like, say, Diablo where you can't attack anyone in town, only in the dungeon) you won't feel like there's anything missing.

The problem of being able to kill children or not be able to kill them only arises when attacking random NPCs is possible in general. You can attack anyone in Fallout, there are kids in Fallout, you can attack and kill them too. It's logical and makes sense because it means the rules that apply to all NPCs in the game apply to children too. Consistency and all that. You can attack random NPCs in the Infinity Engine games, too, and as far as I remember you could also attack and kill the children. Makes sense, is logical, all NPCs follow the same rules.

Meanwhile in Fallout 3, you can attack everyone... but kids (and essential quest NPCs) are invincible. They go down when their HP reaches zero but then they get up again immediately, their health restored. They explicitly break the rules of the game and that's why it feels wrong.

You need to make everything follow the same rules consistently.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Killing kids in video games is haram. But if you are a mudslime in jEUrope, you can rape and kill kids for your amusement.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Rape is an extreme example and I wouldn't expect any RPGs to include it, for it would require the coding of a new gameplay mechanic, or at the very least new animations, just to be edgy and controversial.

Why animations?
Mere textbox might be enough if its how rest of the game gives feedback of combat and other player activities or plot related events.

 

[frajaq]

Going all-in with rape is just retarded and being edgy, although it's perfectly fine as a element of the setting in the background (like New Vegas). Also it would cause way too much drama in today's political environment and affect sales