Just got Fallout

[Zomg]

Wrong, Small Frame is one of the worse investments. The primary point of Strength is carry weight, and you are effectively trading 2 points of strength for 1 point of agility. The only thing that STR effects otherwise is min strength, and that is, like I said, easily overcome with just a few skill points, especially if you have the weapon skill tagged.

Strength also gives hit points, melee damage bonuses and throwing range, although throwing is mostly useless.

Don't listen to all of this advice, just make something and run with it. Getting powergaming tips from people that have played the game 10+ times for your first playthrough of FO is a good way to ruin it.

 

[bryce777]

Small Frame is also good for that 1 stat point more.

Wrong, Small Frame is one of the worse investments. The primary point of Strength is carry weight, and you are effectively trading 2 points of strength for 1 point of agility. The only thing that STR effects otherwise is min strength, and that is, like I said, easily overcome with just a few skill points, especially if you have the weapon skill tagged.

If you dont take gifted it is difficult to make a character with good dialog options who is not otherwise a gimp.

This is wrong.

You can't get the sniper tag

You can't get the sniper perk until level 21, if I'm not mistaken, and as much as I love Fallout, I usually reach the end of the game at around level 14-16. You won't get sniper anyways, in a normal game.

Finesse is the stupidest trait ever, too.

It's quite effective once you your first crit perk perks, and if you have high Luck. 10% chance for crit means 1 in 10 shots will be a critical hit. You have a base (LCK)% chance, so 5 or more means 15%, and at level 6 or 9 you get your first crit upgrade (+25%) if you have LUck>6 (I think)I played a Finesse character a while back, 7 Luck, I ended up with 25%+ chance for crit by level 15 (I think) and I had Better Criticals, pretty much every other shot was critting when I used called shots and those were usually 1 hit kills with Better Criticals.

Well, mathematically speaking, I am pretty sure it is a bad investment, and it is useless if you have sniper.

Also, he is not playing only fallout 1 - I presume.

You are going to have shit luck if you don't have gifted and you ahve decent perception and charisma, so no extra criticals for yuo.

The character you describe is a gimp and when you get to the nightkin you will be unprepared.

 

[kingcomrade]

My favorite build:

Name: PatrickStew
5 STR
8 PER
3 END
6 CHA
8 INT
6 AGI
4 LCK
Small Arms
Energy Weapons
Lockpick

Good Natured
Finesse or Fast Shot (depending on whether I'm snip/critting or multishotting)

If I'm Finesse, I take all the critical hit perks. Otherwise I take Bonus Ranged Damage and Bonus Rate of Fire.

 

[Elwro]

So why not just take the 2 points from Strength and put them in Agility?

I prefer my method because:
1.HPs and Minimum Strength requirements of some weapons (why should I overcome the difference with skill points when I can just take the trait?)
2.I sometimes like to have 2 traits and Small Frame is usually the second best one for my char (after Finesse)... :D

 

[kingcomrade]

Strength also gives hit points, melee damage bonuses and throwing range, although throwing is mostly useless.

Yes but none of those are important. Carry Weight is the only important thing that Strength modifies.

 

[Elwro]

Carry Weight is the only important thing that Strength modifies.

Well, Carry Weight is only important if you want to drag along lots of big guns.

 

[kingcomrade]

1.HPs and Minimum Strength requirements of some weapons (why should I overcome the difference with skill points when I can just take the trait?)

Because skill points are easy to come by and combat is at close range?

 

[kingcomrade]

Carry Weight is the only important thing that Strength modifies.

Well, Carry Weight is only important if you want to drag along lots of big guns.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So why sacrifice 2 points of Strength for 1 of Agility, when you can sacrifice 2 points of Strength for 2 points of Agility?

 

[Elwro]

So why sacrifice 2 points of Strength for 1 of Agility, when you can sacrifice 2 points of Strength for 2 points of Agility?

When, as I said, I don't care about Carry Weight, taking Small Frame is gaining a point of Agility while not sacrificing a single point of Strength.

 

[User was nabbed fit]

So why sacrifice 2 points of Strength for 1 of Agility, when you can sacrifice 2 points of Strength for 2 points of Agility?

When, as I said, I don't care about Carry Weight, taking Small Frame is gaining a point of Agility while not sacrificing a single point of Strength.

I didn't carry a lot of stuff around, so I took it too (in later games). I always had to have 10 AP points (not that I couldn't have 10 AP points without it).

 

[El Dee]

Don't listen to all of this advice, just make something and run with it. Getting powergaming tips from people that have played the game 10+ times for your first playthrough of FO is a good way to ruin it.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I did. Now, I am just reading the debate as it unfolds.

Also, he is not playing only fallout 1 - I presume.

You are correct, though I won't start it until I finish FO1.

 

[kingcomrade]

When, as I said, I don't care about Carry Weight, taking Small Frame is gaining a point of Agility while not sacrificing a single point of Strength.

Yeah...? You've got a logic problem there. If you don't care about carry weight, then you shouldn't care about sacrificing Strength, which is what I'm saying, because you get more points to put into AG or wherever you like.

 

[User was nabbed fit]

When, as I said, I don't care about Carry Weight, taking Small Frame is gaining a point of Agility while not sacrificing a single point of Strength.

Yeah...? You've got a logic problem there. If you don't care about carry weight, then you shouldn't care about sacrificing Strength, which is what I'm saying, because you get more points to put into AG or wherever you like.

What about if you don't want to put a lot of points in Strength in the first place at all? You've got to have some, there's a point at which you can't sacrifice it anymore (depending on how you want to play the game).

 

[Elwro]

Yeah...? You've got a logic problem there. If you don't care about carry weight, then you shouldn't care about sacrificing Strength

As I've said: HPs, minimum strength requirements. Really, for most of my chars Small Frame is getting shit for free whereas your solution is a lose some, win some situation.
And when you sum up all your primary statistics points, my char has one point more than yours if you don't take Gifted:D

8=====>

 

[kingcomrade]

You are suffering from the same logic problem he is.
Okay, let me write it again.
Small Frame = -2 STR, +1 AG = Net Loss of 1 Char Point.
Thus- It is more efficient to simply take 2 points of strength
EX = -2 STR, +2 AG = Balanced Char Points

If you are playing a low STR character, and you take Small Frame, you are still losing 2 points worth of STR to your carry weight.

I mean, if you have less than 3 STR you might have trouble shooting straight before your weapon skill is above 100%, but otherwise it's not a big deal if you want to play a low STR character.

@Elwro-
HP loss is negligible

 

[kingcomrade]

And when you sum up all your primary statistics points, my char has one point more than yours

but not EFFECTIVE stat points. One of your stat points is worthless because it isn't contributing compared to alternative.

 

[User was nabbed fit]

I will have to try this, kingcomrade... I'll start a new game (I haven't played in a long time, so this is the perfect opportunity), and I'll try your method.

 

[kingcomrade]

The only other thing worth mentioning is that min STR affects accuracy, so you'll have to compensate by putting a few more skill points into your gun skill, but if you tag the gun skill you plan to use like most people do, it's not a problem as skill points are easy to come by (1 level at INT 8 = 21 points * 2 tag bonus = 41% in one level)

 

[Elwro]

How many times do I have to repeat that Small Frame does not mean -2 to STR when I don't fucking care about Carry Weight? STR stays where it is and I get a free point of Agility, it's that simple.

 

[kingcomrade]

Yes, it does, because you can get more Attribute Points to put elsewhere.

 

[vazquez595654]

What was the website with all the game manuals again (I lost all my favorites)?

 

[bryce777]

When, as I said, I don't care about Carry Weight, taking Small Frame is gaining a point of Agility while not sacrificing a single point of Strength.

Yeah...? You've got a logic problem there. If you don't care about carry weight, then you shouldn't care about sacrificing Strength, which is what I'm saying, because you get more points to put into AG or wherever you like.

Jesus schrist. Obviously he means you need at least the min strength for your weapons. If you have 3 strength youa re fucked.

 

[kingcomrade]

If you have 3 strength youa re fucked.

No, all you need to do is devote perhaps one level's worth of skill points to overcome that.

 

[oherror]

If you have 3 strength youa re fucked.

No, all you need to do is devote perhaps one level's worth of skill points to overcome that.

no your fucked only way you wouldn't bee is with powerarmor even so you get that late in the game so....i agree with bryce777...your fucked!

 

[kingcomrade]

My fucked what? Is English your first language?