KeighnMcDeath
RPG Codex Boomer
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2016
- Messages
- 15,420
Well.... you should be very afraid.
it isn't just generic but also a star reporter
Last edited:
-
Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.
"This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.
Jeff Vogel Soapbox Thread
- Thread starter Humanity has risen!
- Start date
Well.... you should be very afraid.
it isn't just generic but also a star reporter
thesecret1
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2019
- Messages
- 6,683
I'd also be depressed if I spent the last decade chucking out remakes of remakes that seem to usually only get worse with each iteration, but he's only got himself to blame for that.
- Joined
- May 30, 2021
- Messages
- 461
He's right that you could probably do a lot more good not doing art and not taking chances.
Become a cog in the system to help others who the system fails.
That's not a nu-think, it's an old truth.
In some cases you're better off eating bugs for a week than troubleshooting them for a month in your indie game.
So give up on your dreams now and help others out of their personal nightmare by becoming a corporate slave.
It's your privilege, and your right to be the world's personal janny army.
I'm kind of joking here and not trying to be some Jeff Vogel critic.
I've enjoyed his video(s) though I haven't played his games myself.
Everybody's first game is kind-of shit, and i'd be very surprised if most of these lists aren't just that.
In that sense maybe more developers could remember to be more helpful to each other
so they aren't as wasteful with their time when they find out their game will make shit-all in sales.
I'm more concerned about exposure and advertising than anything else.
Also steam's monopoly on where gamers expect you to sell your game is highly damaging to the impoverished.
It is a bitch to squeak by a game of note.
Vogel's a smart guy so i'm sure he's realized how cruel it is the way you can go month after month just short of 100$ and not be sent any money you were able to earn.
I'm sure he's aware how insane the app submission process is on steam.
For people who are egomaniacs or creative, or both, the submission process is a huge brickwall.
The more you tell people not to quit their dayjob the more likely it is they will actually finish their game though.
GameDev is so hard that you may even finish faster by keeping your job.
Maybe we need a pyramid scheme we're we all fund each other, then once we've funded enough projects,
we are allowed to receive funding to make our own. Then steam could say unless you've received
the pyramid blessing you can't list yourself , exception if you have a publisher.
Bottom line is i've sensed the same thing Jeff Vogel has.
In 5 to 10 years, and arguably already it has taken place, there is no reason to even bother with a hope of getting your ROI.
But this will turn into a self-solving problem. Once enough people try to squeeze in at once, no one will
be left standing but those who already made it as game developers.
If this is really all about our privilege and not about some right to game development, then we get what we deserve.
Become a cog in the system to help others who the system fails.
That's not a nu-think, it's an old truth.
In some cases you're better off eating bugs for a week than troubleshooting them for a month in your indie game.
So give up on your dreams now and help others out of their personal nightmare by becoming a corporate slave.
It's your privilege, and your right to be the world's personal janny army.
I'm kind of joking here and not trying to be some Jeff Vogel critic.
I've enjoyed his video(s) though I haven't played his games myself.
Everybody's first game is kind-of shit, and i'd be very surprised if most of these lists aren't just that.
In that sense maybe more developers could remember to be more helpful to each other
so they aren't as wasteful with their time when they find out their game will make shit-all in sales.
I'm more concerned about exposure and advertising than anything else.
Also steam's monopoly on where gamers expect you to sell your game is highly damaging to the impoverished.
It is a bitch to squeak by a game of note.
Vogel's a smart guy so i'm sure he's realized how cruel it is the way you can go month after month just short of 100$ and not be sent any money you were able to earn.
I'm sure he's aware how insane the app submission process is on steam.
For people who are egomaniacs or creative, or both, the submission process is a huge brickwall.
The more you tell people not to quit their dayjob the more likely it is they will actually finish their game though.
GameDev is so hard that you may even finish faster by keeping your job.
Maybe we need a pyramid scheme we're we all fund each other, then once we've funded enough projects,
we are allowed to receive funding to make our own. Then steam could say unless you've received
the pyramid blessing you can't list yourself , exception if you have a publisher.
Bottom line is i've sensed the same thing Jeff Vogel has.
In 5 to 10 years, and arguably already it has taken place, there is no reason to even bother with a hope of getting your ROI.
But this will turn into a self-solving problem. Once enough people try to squeeze in at once, no one will
be left standing but those who already made it as game developers.
If this is really all about our privilege and not about some right to game development, then we get what we deserve.
Last edited:
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
funny how there are "more games" yet there hasn't been an uptick in good games actually released
If there are, say, 50x more games released annually now than in 1992 then why aren't there 50x as many good games released? Shouldn't we be swimming in good games now?
If there are, say, 50x more games released annually now than in 1992 then why aren't there 50x as many good games released? Shouldn't we be swimming in good games now?
NerevarineKing
Learned
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2021
- Messages
- 315
I mean I wouldn't call myself an old fuck.
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
I'll even handicap myself and limit myself solely to Amiga. Let's compare good games 1991 to 2021.
1991 Amiga good games: Alien Breed, Another World, Eye of the Beholder, Lemmings, Secret of Monkey Island, Populous 2, Bard's Tale 3, Death Knights of Krynn, King's Quest 5, Moonstone: A Hard Days Knight, Utopia
2021 good games: uhhhh....?
Resident Evil Village & Guardians of the Galaxy appear to be the only notable releases that have a positive user score on Metacritic. The Gothic mod seems to be well received.
The ratio of good games : total games has taken a nosedive.
Last edited:
The GOTY poll will have almost 150 RPGs, all of them with hundreds or thousands of positive reviews on Steam.
Not all of them are amazing games, of course, but I wouldn't call Moonstone or Alien Breed amazing either...
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
moonstone and alien breed are regularly listed on most best amiga games lists
And do you think the Best games of 2021 lists only have Resident Evil & Guardians of the Galaxy?
A lot of great games came out this year. You're mixing "all good games" with "games I know about and liked".
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
I have a feeling your list of good games includes trash like deathloop so....
Tyranicon
A Memory of Eternity
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
- Messages
- 7,790
It's like movies. Just because more people are making movies, doesn't mean we get more quality stuff.
Good media is hard to make.
I'm really trying to be more tolerant and racking my head, but did good games come out in 2021? There's a difference between what modern critics/audiences like... and legitimate, well-crafted video games. Personally I wouldn't consider RE: Village a good game, but I have ridiculously high standards.
As I mentioned, this year we have almost 150 RPGs that got hundreds or thousands of positive reviews on Steam. We never had so many before.
The % of those that fit your personal criteria for "actually good" is kinda pointless to debate. I think the big change of the era is that we moved past having just 2-3 big games that everyone plays. Nowadays you can play anything from a Gothic 2 mod to a massive new Infinity Engine clone to a FF7 remake to whatever the hell Loop Hero is.
KeighnMcDeath
RPG Codex Boomer
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2016
- Messages
- 15,420
CanadianCorndog
Learned
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2021
- Messages
- 158
So make better and more original games?
Tyranicon
A Memory of Eternity
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
- Messages
- 7,790
I may be in the minority, but I feel like yes/no user reviews are a poor indicator of quality.
If we simply accepted the majority opinion on a game, there would be no need for a hyper-exacting website like the codex. I'd wager a lot of us are here because we hold RPGs to higher standards than steam reviewers.
That being said I do agree that as more developers enter the scene, we should be seeing more innovation and quality games.
For sure Steam reviews aren't the best metric, that's why I do the GOTY voting. Since people can vote on as many games as they want, should be easy to see if the Codex enjoyed more games this year or not.
Tyranicon
A Memory of Eternity
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
- Messages
- 7,790
It's been a while since I glanced at the main GOTY thread, but the last time I looked, 2021 was down between Pathfinder WoTR and a free mod for a 20 year old game...
Not confidence inspiring lol.
KeighnMcDeath
RPG Codex Boomer
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2016
- Messages
- 15,420
Damn problem with games is people have favorites and enjoy different ones others don't. Can't trust any rating but your own. And sadly, you'll probably have to play it.
Demos help but if that doesn't help and $$$ is sacred then you only have one choice..
Demos help but if that doesn't help and $$$ is sacred then you only have one choice..
roll-a-die
Magister
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2009
- Messages
- 3,131
As far as RPG/Adventure games's that released in 2021 that were above mediocre quality.
Monster Hunter Rise,
Ys Monstrum Nox
Yakuza Like a Dragon
Nier Replicant
Griftlands
The Ascent
Psychonauts 2
Tales of Arise
NEO: The World Ends with You
Guardians of the Galaxy
The Waylanders
Deaths Door
Pathfinder WOTR
(on PC)
Nioh 2
Kingdom Hearts series
FF7 Remake Intergrade
Literally that's all I can think of right now, but I'm sure if I took the time, I could find a lot more RPG and RPG adjacent games that are "Above average" released last year.
Monster Hunter Rise,
Ys Monstrum Nox
Yakuza Like a Dragon
Nier Replicant
Griftlands
The Ascent
Psychonauts 2
Tales of Arise
NEO: The World Ends with You
Guardians of the Galaxy
The Waylanders
Deaths Door
Pathfinder WOTR
(on PC)
Nioh 2
Kingdom Hearts series
FF7 Remake Intergrade
Literally that's all I can think of right now, but I'm sure if I took the time, I could find a lot more RPG and RPG adjacent games that are "Above average" released last year.
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2015
- Messages
- 13,109
Good Amiga-original games released in 1991:
- Lemmings
- Another World
- Populous II
- Alien Breed
- Amnios
- Blade Warrior
- Carcharodon
- Fate: Gates of Dawn
- First Samurai
- Hunter
- Moonstone
- Wayne Gretzky Hockey II
- Oh No! More Lemmings
- Black Book
- Praey for the Gods
- Solasta
- Urtuk
- Wildermyth
Lord_Potato
Arcane
Good Amiga-original games released in 1991:
Though for 2021, there are at least five good (not great) games:
- Lemmings
- Another World
- Populous II
- Alien Breed
- Amnios
- Blade Warrior
- Carcharodon
- Fate: Gates of Dawn
- First Samurai
- Hunter
- Moonstone
- Wayne Gretzky Hockey II
- Oh No! More Lemmings
Of course, Lemmings, Another World, and Populous II are all-time classics, and we could add Civilization and probably at least two more IBM PC original releases from 1991, whereas there doesn't seem to have been any release of this caliber in 2021.
- Black Book
- Praey for the Gods
- Solasta
- Urtuk
- Wildermyth
You are comparing a number of good games for Amiga in 1991 with a number of good RPGs for PC in 2021. I am sure there were numerous quality games in other genres in 2021 (genres that I simply do not follow anymore because gaming became too vast for one person to enjoy them all).
As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.