Jeff Vogel Soapbox Thread

[luj1]

Better drawn than 90% of games.

I wonder why you didn't post a screenshot of the game past the character select screen...

Nothing wrong with it. It has charm, it's functional, it has a lot of detail and a reasonable amount of realism. Is HoMM 3 an ugly game? I'm not sure you could say that.

 

[Tacgnol]

If you think this looks acceptable, you have no eye for art.

After WarWizard everything is acceptable.

This honestly looks better than Jeff Vogel's games.

I kinda like it tbh. Obviously it's hard to judge by that screenshot alone as you can't see the other tilesets the game uses. It might be the game has little variation.

I really miss those simpler 2d tile based birds eye games like Exile that had a flatter perspective. Everyone seems obsessed with the faux-3d isometric look these days.

Exile was generally quite colourful, had a really nice range of distinctive environments and, most important of all, you could quite easily see what was going on at a glance.

 

[Narushima]

Is HoMM 3 an ugly game?

No, because HoMM 3 had an art direction.

 

[fantadomat]

Better drawn than 90% of games.

I wonder why you didn't post a screenshot of the game past the character select screen...

LoL when did the codex turn in to a graphic whore hive,pathetic.

 

[Ninjerk]

The screens Jarl shared really are almost impressive in how banal and garish they are.

 

[Narushima]

LoL when did the codex turn in to a graphic whore hive,pathetic.

It doesn't take an art degree to see that this doesn't look good, and it's not a question of only accepting the latest 3D graphics.
Ultima 1 looks better than any Jeff Vogel game, and it's not exactly the most advanced graphics-wise.

 

[fantadomat]

LoL when did the codex turn in to a graphic whore hive,pathetic.

It doesn't take an art degree to see that this doesn't look good, and it's not a question of only accepting the latest 3D graphics.
Ultima 1 looks better than any Jeff Vogel game, and it's not exactly the most advanced graphics-wise.

Never had a problem how they looked,nor did i cared about it. I cared for having good experience while playing them. They are not ugly,at least most of them. It is pretty utilitarian style for sure,i would even say that i like it in a way. Most of the 90s rpgs look far worst with their acidic eye burning graphics lol. If could tolerate garbage graphics like early MM/wiz games or shit like quest for glory,i could enjoy vogel's games. That said his latest game is beyond saving,it looks ugly and plays like a phone game lol.

Sooo all that bitching about muh vogel's game being ugly is redundant. For an RPG the graphics are the last shit i would care about lol. I would even go as far as i prefer ugly games because they run better on me pc lol.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Btw, if anyone wants to play Exile or old Vogel games on Windows 10 you just need to install this shit:

http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/otvdm.html

And the game will run fine. here's the download link:

http://www.columbia.edu/~em36/OtvdmSetup.exe

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Speaking of Exile, the game seems pretty cool, like an Ultima clone but with full party creation. I also think the graphics in those games looks fine, but then again, i play ASCII roguelikes and JRPGs.

 

[fantadomat]

Speaking of Exile, the game seems pretty cool, like an Ultima clone but with full party creation. I also think the graphics in those games looks fine, but then again, i play ASCII roguelikes and JRPGs.

I like it more than ultima,more side content.

 

[Dwarvophile]

I wonder what amazing new art assets our hard earned dollars will get us in this next Kickstarter?

View attachment 20009

I'm more worried about the sound than the graphics, his games always had terrible audio. The same soundscape used over and over.

 

[Fowyr]

This honestly looks better than Jeff Vogel's games.

Tacgnol
You just need to play it and see it yourself. Unreadable fonts are especially abominable and make a mess all other the screen.
Geneforge's problem, on the other hand, is just a too bright interface. It could be easily fixed with a mod.

Speaking of Exile, the game seems pretty cool, like an Ultima clone but with full party creation. I also think the graphics in those games looks fine, but then again, i play ASCII roguelikes and JRPGs.

Depends on the Ultima, but Exile has a lot to offer, often more that Ultimas.

 

[Tacgnol]

Tacgnol
You just need to play it and see it yourself. Unreadable fonts are especially abominable and make a mess all other the screen.
Geneforge's problem, on the other hand, is just a too bright interface. It could be easily fixed with a mod.

I'll take your word for it, as mentioned I was only going by that screenshot. I've probably got a bit of a soft spot for those tiled games in that style.

 

[Fowyr]

I'll take your word for it, as mentioned I was only going by that screenshot. I've probably got a bit of a soft spot for those tiled games in that style.

I like them as well, Disciples of Steel, Aethra Chronicles and Exile are one of my favorite games, but WarWizard fucked up everything. I tried to play it probably four times and got a migraine every time trying to discern its font. On the fucking CRT display, where it should be easy.

 

[Nim]

Geneforge's problem, on the other hand, is just a too bright interface. It could be easily fixed with a mod.

Just replace G131.BMP with the one from G2. Blue > piss green. No modding necessary.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

The screens Jarl shared really are almost impressive in how banal and garish they are.

What game is that again? WarWizard?

It doesn't take an art degree to see that this doesn't look good, and it's not a question of only accepting the latest 3D graphics.
Ultima 1 looks better than any Jeff Vogel game, and it's not exactly the most advanced graphics-wise.

Funny thing about Ultima 1. There are several version and a releases that look a bit different. If you can stomach the garish music try the ULTIMA I-III trilogy pack on the FM-Towns. The towns and castles are done in the same style as the overland. It would have been interesting if they were like the palm os ultimas that are impossible to find full version of. Top down dungeons just like the ultima 4 port on the Sega Master System. The palm was a modified game that i believe used the ultima iii engine as i swore i saw party combat arenas for ultima 1 & 2. The FM-Towns follows the traditional ultima trilogy with intro & ending scenes and a few extra monsters.

edit... ah ok.

 

[Oberon]

Better drawn than 90% of games.

I wonder why you didn't post a screenshot of the game past the character select screen...

The old Exile games had a nice aesthetic

 

[J1M]

It also had 6 party members. The remakes downgraded that to 4.

If you only play one Exile game I suggest Exile III.

 

[mindx2]

The original Exile games are really good. Not only having 6 party members but the world is just huge and it was a joy to explore. It felt like a full fantasy world, not a group of theme park like encounters. It was downhill for Vogel after the Exiles.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

The original Exile games are really good. Not only having 6 party members but the world is just huge and it was a joy to explore. It felt like a full fantasy world, not a group of theme park like encounters. It was downhill for Vogel after the Exiles.

And after you beat Exile 1-3 you can play Blades of Exile:

https://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/blades/winBOE.html
it's free !

The game comes with 3 campaigns and you can add player made campaigns to the game:

https://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/blades/scen_stuff/solid.html

It's like Neverwinter Nights before Neverwinter NIghts, although technically that would be FRUA. and arguably better than Neverwinter Nights since BOE is a 6 party member game with true turn based combat.

And then you can play Avernum 4-5-6 and Blades of Avernum and all the other Vogel games, those are completely different games(not remakes) and worth playing.

Blades of Avernum scenario list:

https://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/avernum/blades/scen_stuff/solid.html

Infinite top down/isometric turn based CRPG content here !

 

[Old One]

...and arguably better than Neverwinter Nights since BOE is a 6 party member game with true turn based combat.

And better graphics than NWN too.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I often thought Wyvern online reminded me of Exile.

 

[OSK]

The original Exile games are really good. Not only having 6 party members but the world is just huge and it was a joy to explore. It felt like a full fantasy world, not a group of theme park like encounters. It was downhill for Vogel after the Exiles.

Though they're a different kind of RPG, the Geneforge games are also really good.

 

[Baron Dupek]

old stuff

 

[Tavernking]

I don't have that much cash on hand. Nowhere near. To launch this project, I need to take a bank loan or raid my retirement fund. Then, if I don't break even, I'm in big trouble.

What was the point of the kickstarter then?

I'm convinced Jeff just pocketed most of the Kickstarter money to ensure that he was taking risk out of the equation because he was so paranoid about making a new IP. This is coming from a guy who has read all of his blogs and listened to his talks. He would have been very aware of the possibility that more Kickstarter money = less sales, since the Kickstarter already gave copies of the game for pledges above $20.

I promise my Vogel obsession will end soon but here's some further evidence.
Steam fee = 30%
Kickstarter fee = 5%
Both give you the game after pledging the game's release cost. But one gives Vogel a larger percentage of the money.
Vogel is using Kickstarter to sell his games, not to fund them.