Vapourware Jagged Alliance is now owned by Nordic Games

[Duellist_D]

maybe. but their game neither pleased the fandom nor sold decently (or at all). I wonder whose fault is this...


Yes, they dumbed down thing in Blackguards 2. And now look how well it went. The game was -75% two months after release.

Sure, the thing is, Blackguards 1 didn't sell so well either.
Squad based TBT is a genre where little money can be made, which is kind of sad.

 

[FuriousGamer87]

Sure, the thing is, Blackguards 1 didn't sell so well either.
Squad based TBT is a genre where little money can be made, which is kind of sad.

Yeah, I kind of knew that but I love the genre.

 

[GrainWetski]

Sure, the thing is, Blackguards 1 didn't sell so well either.
Squad based TBT is a genre where little money can be made, which is kind of sad.

A bit of a difference between the two, though.

http://steamspy.com/search.php?s=blackguards

 

[Archibald]

Blackguard 2 even has slightly better reviews, but difference in sales in shocking to say the least.

 

[hoverdog]

wow. I knew Blackguards 2 bombed hard, but ten times less sales? Truly, a decline not only in gameplay.

 

[a Goat]

Same would go for JA 2 if it would have been released nowadays.
"Booohoo, no tutorial, wuhooo, the enemies start with better gear than i do, baaawaaaa, i get actually punished for not moving my ass"

Except hardly any of these is true.
Tutorial is a matter of making a tutorial mission and I don't think lack of it is important part of "Jagged Alliance 2 experience".
The very fist enemies are not really well-geared, until the first counter-attacks for Drassen are here.
Not moving your ass stops being an issue once you get decent AR's or Sniper rifles, attack in the daytime and spot properly.

 

[Infinitron]

I'm not sure a Codex-pleasing Blackguards 2 would have sold as much as Blackguards 1 did either. This could very well have been a Grimrock-type situation - lots of people checked out the first game because it looked cool, most didn't like it enough to buy the sequel.

Still, I'm sure there's something they could have done better, because those numbers are beyond atrocious.

 

[deuxhero]

Most of the people I see praising Blackguards 1 off the codex compare it more to Final Fantasy Tactics and such than any squad tactics games like Jagged Alliance. Maybe the strategic elements over the tactical ones turned people off.

Oh and Blackguards 1 also had a really massive demo (though it hasn't gotten any of the major updates the game itself got). I think that might have gotten a bunch more sales.

 

[a Goat]

Nah.

It was a mix of incredibly dull early game and tactics going retardo. The first thing killed all non-hardcore fags, the second - all the hardcore ones. They've made a game for nobody, that was their problem.

 

[butchy]

Blackguard 2 even has slightly better reviews, but difference in sales in shocking to say the least.

I'm not sure a Codex-pleasing Blackguards 2 would have sold as much as Blackguards 1 did either. This could very well have been a Grimrock-type situation - lots of people checked out the first game because it looked cool, most didn't like it enough to buy the sequel.

Still, I'm sure there's something they could have done better, because those numbers are beyond atrocious.

BG2 had a lot better reviews, the issue is the made the game to please dummies, they completed gutted the core mechanic of TDE. They didn't make a game for the fans of BG1, they made a game for the people who disliked BG1 and that is just dumb.

I'm not sure what would please the codex besides extra controller support and a console port, so I don't understand that part. But I know myself, and a lot of people on the steam forums would have bought it if they made a BG2 instead of a non-TDE game for dummies.

I think the sales would have been better if they doubled down on making a game for people of average intelligence and didn't remove the TDE mechanics, and also went the JA to JA2 route of adding more rpg elements and trying to make the game a strategy rpg instead of the atrocity that it is.

 

[:Flash:]

I'm not sure a Codex-pleasing Blackguards 2 would have sold as much as Blackguards 1 did either. This could very well have been a Grimrock-type situation - lots of people checked out the first game because it looked cool, most didn't like it enough to buy the sequel.

That's certainly true to some extent, but according to that steamspy thing three times as many people played Blackguards 1 compared to Blackguards 2 in the last two weeks.

 

[Severian Silk]

Blackguards 1 was p good. Haven't played Blackguards 2.

 

[Archibald]

Except hardly any of these is true.
Tutorial is a matter of making a tutorial mission and I don't think lack of it is important part of "Jagged Alliance 2 experience".
The very fist enemies are not really well-geared, until the first counter-attacks for Drassen are here.
Not moving your ass stops being an issue once you get decent AR's or Sniper rifles, attack in the daytime and spot properly.

This reminds me of video where Miyamoto explains how they made Mario's 1-1 level. When you play it, it doesn't feel like tutorial level (obviously asides of being easy), but all the stuff was placed on purpose so that player would get general idea of what to expect from the game. As I understand it was also last level to be made, after whole game was made and tested, which is something that I think many developers don't do since usually tutorial levels feel completely detached from overall game.

 

[Perkel]

This reminds me of video where Miyamoto explains how they made Mario's 1-1 level. When you play it, it doesn't feel like tutorial level (obviously asides of being easy), but all the stuff was placed on purpose so that player would get general idea of what to expect from the game. As I understand it was also last level to be made, after whole game was made and tested, which is something that I think many developers don't do since usually tutorial levels feel completely detached from overall game.

Actually that is standard now in almost all AAA studios and it wasn't Miyamoto who popularized it but Cerny with his method to how aproach developement. Pre Cerny there were naturally people who used it but after Cerny most of big studios started to use it.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Except hardly any of these is true.
Tutorial is a matter of making a tutorial mission and I don't think lack of it is important part of "Jagged Alliance 2 experience".

One could also argue that tutorial missions are good for sophisticated games because they allow introducing mechanics and gear in a separate part of the game instead of creeping introduction of stuff during game proper.

The very fist enemies are not really well-geared, until the first counter-attacks for Drassen are here.

Not to mention that the original JA2 had Drassen counter-attack disabled.

By the way, I always despised the pistol start of JA2. It didn't make any sense. It would make sense if the mercs would have to infiltrate into Arulco without starting fights but they get dropped into a warzone from the start.

Also, since the enemies have a massive advantage of numbers, what's the point of giving them better gear than the merc team?

 

[Ninjerk]

To make it HAAARDDDD

(seriously, though, pistol wielding mercs? dunno bout that)

 

[Athelas]

By the way, I always despised the pistol start of JA2. It didn't make any sense. It would make sense if the mercs would have to infiltrate into Arulco without starting fights but they get dropped into a warzone from the start.

Also, since the enemies have a massive advantage of numbers, what's the point of giving them better gear than the merc team?

Enemies in (unmodded) JA2 don't drop the weapons and armor they use, so there's no downside to giving them better equipment (if they did drop it, the downside would be that the player would be able to loot it and become powerful too easily).

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Enemies in (unmodded) JA2 don't drop the weapons and armor they use, so there's no downside to giving them better equipment (if they did drop it, the downside would be that the player would be able to loot it and become powerful too easily).

Not dropping weapons is another thing I despise about it.

It doesn't make sense to take on enemy force that has superiority both in numbers and quality.

I would envision the Arulcan army as something similar to the one seen in intro - massively outdated, using Vietnam war era American equipment (which is 30+ years old, possibly badly maintained).

Mercs should be the ones using superior equipment - modern firearms, body armour, night vision gear, etc.

 

[a Goat]

The problem is that the game would be too easy this way.

Your mercs are and will be better than anybody they can possibly oppose unless your team is made of Biffs and Haywires.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

The problem is that the game would be too easy this way.

With enemies having squads of 8 M16s, 2 M79s and 2 M60s?

 

[Ninjerk]

Play 1.13. They drop all kinds of shit.

 

[Ninjerk]

Or whatever the patch number is, I've forgotten now possibly.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Play 1.13. They drop all kinds of shit.

I know. Used to have a mod that gave the opponents Vietnam-era military weapons.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Don't be a cheapskate and hire mercs with rifles if you don't want pistols?

Learn to read with comprehension?