Iterating on the holy trinity

[Metro]

Well, WoW always required a tank and healer and still does for relevant level content -- the lower levels instances can be mostly be facerolled by offspecs without a true tank and healer but that has more to do with the toning down of mechanics, multiple hits to said dungeons' difficulty curve, and considerable boosts to player abilities and spells. TBC heroics were the pinnacle because -- at least prior to subsequent adjustments during the life of the expansion -- even trash mobs essentially one/two shot any non tank. There was little room for error and while you didn't need an off-tank you needed DPS who knew how to CC because most of the pulls involved packs of three or more mobs. A lot of people whined it was easier for classes who had more reliable CC like mages and warlocks but the reality is nearly any DPS could help CC including offspecs (shadow priests could use mind control, Shaman could kite with earth bind totem, etc.) Playing DPS now is boring, especially melee DPS since things die so fast. Wrath heroics were basically AoE fests.

 

[J1M]

I'm not sure where that comment about low level dungeons post TBC came from. Between rend and thunderclap my warrior was doing 60% plus of the damage in instances while levelling up as a tank in cata. It would have been easy to do them with just a healer on follow.

It is a shame what heroics are now. I like the idea of their challenge dungeons where gear is capped. They should have added it before everyone got bored of the game and stopped playing it.

 

[Zetor]

I wouldn't really write off complaining about BC era heroics' ultra-reliance on CC classes as whining... though really, the problem was the uneven distribution of CC among all classes (mage/lock >>> some other ranged classes and hybrids >> melee dps classes). My warlock could banish one mob, seduce (or enslave) a second, fear a third, and kite a fourth with Curse of Exhaustion. Why take a dps warrior who could MAYBE offtank one mob, or use piercing howl (weaker version of earthbind totem that exposed the warrior to a lot more danger) for kiting?

I remember Magister's Terrace groups looking for tank, healer, mage/warlock, mage/warlock, 'normal' dps class. Of course I didn't mind - since my two characters were resto shaman and warlock - but I can see why it created a lot of angst.

BTW, the best WOW dungeon encounters were the tier0.5 fight in BRD and Priestess Delrissa in Magister's Terrace -- these were both aggro-less affairs where an enemy team used player-like abilities in a somewhat reasonable manner. I'd put Faction Champions there too, but lol WOTLK, lol TOC, etc etc.

 

[Delterius]

I'm not sure where that comment about low level dungeons post TBC came from. Between rend and thunderclap my warrior was doing 60% plus of the damage in instances while levelling up as a tank in cata. It would have been easy to do them with just a healer on follow.

WoW's community is retarded and perception dictates reality. Sure, every MMO community is bad but WoW is too big not to rake rake in large groups of silly people. Back on a 5 man back in LK, the bosses might be effectively one shotted, but people are still going to kick you over unoptimal builds.

And I think Cata did bring back CC'ing, at least up to the patch I played.

 

[Exar Kun]

Not having trinity is like implementing communism. Sounds good on paper, but has never been proven to work well.

 

[Norfleet]

Untrue. "Trinity" is a newfangled concept that didn't come about until relatively recently by comparison. Previously we were fine with *4* basic classes, none of which conformed precisely to the entire Tank/DPS/Healer trinity.

 

[Exar Kun]

Can you name a game in which player roles aren't used sucessfully?

 

[Gerrard]

Monster Hunter works just fine without tanks or healers.

 

[J1M]

Can you name a game in which player roles aren't used sucessfully?

EQ didn't have a trinity as we see today.
WoW had 4 roles at launch.

I'm sure there are other examples, but both of these have already been explained in this thread.

 

[Zetor]

As was City of Heroes. 8-defender task force runs at +2x8, sup?