Anime Is there any mod that makes Quake 2 not suck?

[DraQ]

And gameplay is tits

up.

 

[Wunderbar]

SoF feels like a precursor to CoD Modern Warfare, brainless military shooter with cool setpiece moments. Enemy variety and encounter design are nothing to write home about, but its James Bond globetrotting adventure / 80s action movie style rocks, gunplay is amazing, and the gore system is legendary.

SoF2 is shit though.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

One time I was playing Daikatana multiplayer and I asked someone what his favourite Quake 2 engine game was, and he said Soldier of Fortune. I've just started playing it for the first time now, and it's a total piece of shit. At least Daikatana tried to be an actual game of some kind.

What the hell? SoF has much better weapons and shooting than Daikatana. How can you even be this wrong? Not that either are the best Quake 2 engine games, as that would be Anachronox, Sin if we're strictly talking about shooters.

 

[DraQ]

SoF is competently done, but in the end gore and damage system are its sole selling points.

Not that either are the best Quake 2 engine games, as that would be Anachronox, Sin if we're strictly talking about shooters.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

I remember playing Quake II when it first came out on my Rendition Verite-chipset Stealth II video card and getting 25 FPS at 640x480 and thinking, "Man, my framerates are BOSS!" I never went back to it though. It was just okay compared to Doom I/II though I recall being creeped out a little by the abducted soldiers in their force-field cages crawling around their cells in agony because of the parasites in their heads.

 

[soulburner]

I remember SoF was pretty awesome at the time, but I recall one thing I hated - the enemies spawned when you were close to them, if I ran fast enough I could see them teleport to their set location. I think I broke a cutscene that way, too.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Raven are really such a shit developers.

Quake 2 was developed by ID.

And Raven were alright, before being consumed by evil. Quake 4 is awesome too, if we disregard all cutscenes and turret/vehicle sections. And slow movement speed. But still, it's good. Surprisingly challenging on General difficulty.

 

[DraQ]

Raven are really such a shit developers.

Quake 2 was developed by ID.

I think he meant SoF.

Anyway, Hexens and TNP from Raven were good stuff.

 

[Tehdagah]

It's the same thing of the first game but with less hitscanners

 

[Dayyālu]

Quake 4 is shit too.

It's better than Doom3.

A high bar to clear.

*laughs*

Raven kinda lost the spark after a while. Before they were enslaved to support CoD development until the heat death of the universe, they threw out quite a number of shooters that feel exactly the same despite theoretical differences. I'd be hard-pressed to find differences in feeling in Quake IV, Wolfestein 2009 and Singularity.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

I'd be hard-pressed to find differences in feeling in Quake IV, Wolfestein 2009 and Singularity.

Quake IV and Singularity are totally different! Quake IV was very traditional and one of the last classical shooters without all the gimmicks and stuff that got popular around that time, such as upgrade systems, open world stuff, and all that jazz. Singularity on the other hand was like a conglomeration of all the trends at the time, you got your collectible stuff, upgrade system, only a few weapons at once, weak spots on enemies, you could shoot off legs of zombies and stuff, gimmick thing that did time-things, *deep lore*, all that. Quake IV was primarily a PC game, Singularity was multi-platform to the core. So they're like apples and oranges, even down to how guns feel to shoot. If you ask me (which you should!), then Quake IV was decent enough for what it was, not bad, but there wasn't much passion there. As far as Doom 3 engine games goes Prey was the absolute best, it was also traditional but did new things and took the concept new places with super weird levels and enemies and stuff. Too bad the buttheads at Bethesda aren't selling it digitally, so the game is kind of forgotten.

 

[Wunderbar]

It was more traditional than Wolfenstein and Singularity, that's for sure.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

Quake IV was very traditional and one of the last classical shooters

You heard me! You carried around all the weapons at once, no health regen, no pseudo-RPG elements, no takedowns, no collecting stuff, linear but well designed levels with set-pieces. What roughly began with Wolfenstein 3D and Doom was on its way out when the Doom 3 engine rolled out. Even Doom 3 took things from System Shock and stuff rather than being a pure shooter. Granted, there was a shift going from pure arcade to more cinematic stuff that had already taken place at that time with Half-Life and stuff, but other than a few cutscenes and maybe the vehicle segments Quake IV was just like they used to make them. You can argue that it wasn't even close to the peak, that it was generic, or whatevs, but you can't say it wasn't traditional.

 

[Dayyālu]

If you ask me (which you should!), then Quake IV was decent enough for what it was, not bad, but there wasn't much passion there. As far as Doom 3 engine games goes Prey was the absolute best, it was also traditional but did new things and took the concept new places with super weird levels and enemies and stuff. Too bad the buttheads at Bethesda aren't selling it digitally, so the game is kind of forgotten.

This is entirely agreeable and a good take.

Quake IV and Singularity are totally different! Quake IV was very traditional and one of the last classical shooters without all the gimmicks and stuff that got popular around that time, such as upgrade systems, open world stuff, and all that jazz.

Quake IV has upgrades. Both for the "stroggification" and the weapons, but they're so unremarkable (bar the Nailgun) that you'd be hard-pressed to notice them. It's also "traditional" in the sense of being a Half Life clone, always following Doom3's clumsy attempt. Not a bad game, merely mediocre and by the numbers.

It's not a follow-up genetically on Quake 1/2, that's for sure.

Singularity on the other hand was like a conglomeration of all the trends at the time, you got your collectible stuff, upgrade system, only a few weapons at once, weak spots on enemies, you could shoot off legs of zombies and stuff, gimmick thing that did time-things, *deep lore*, all that. Quake IV was primarily a PC game, Singularity was multi-platform to the core. So they're like apples and oranges, even down to how guns feel to shoot.

I have to agree on Singu/Wolf2009 being weirdo "throw everything in" games, but if you strip the details and gimmicks ..... I was sorta surprised how "floaty" the combat feels in Quake IV. Like, I've replayed it last month. Wolf2009 and Singu both had this weirdo feeling of weightlessness in combat, and the goddamn love for Tactical Strogg in Quake IV looked like a preview of the boring-as-shit human standard enemies of Wolf2009/Singu.

But maybe that's me.

 

[DraQ]

Isn't Q4 just a half-assed reheat of Q2?
TBH I've never paid much attention to it and the little I've seen seemed to heavily rely on cheap shock factor.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

Quake IV has upgrades. Both for the "stroggification" and the weapons, but they're so unremarkable (bar the Nailgun) that you'd be hard-pressed to notice them.

Come on, you know that's not what I meant, let's not be pedantic.

It's not a follow-up genetically on Quake 1/2, that's for sure.

Isn't it pretty much entirely a follow-up to Quake 2 though? In terms of setting, enemies, a lot of the weapons... It has way more in common with Quake 2 than Half-Life. I'm not sure what you mean by it being floaty.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

Isn't Q4 just a half-assed reheat of Q2?

Quake 2 was half-assed to begin with haha, I'd say they're about the same, maybe Quake 2 has better art direction. Quake IV is so green and looks kind of plastic at times.

 

[Dayyālu]

Isn't it pretty much entirely a follow-up to Quake 2 though? In terms of setting, enemies, a lot of the weapons... It has way more in common with Quake 2 than Half-Life. I'm not sure what you mean by it being floaty.

Ah, you mean thematically.

Quake IV is a less shitty Doom3, and they're both Half Life clones. Quake II is boring, but at least it has somewhat big maps that somewhat reward mobility, you can engage enemies at range, weapon variety has a use.... contra, Quake IV has a "pseudo-plot" with in-character cinematics, all the levels are cramped corridors with occasional room combat (not even arenas bar a few instances). It's what I would call a "second gen" shooter compared to Quake II. For example, in Quake IV the Grenade Launcher is king and the railgun useless, because 95% of the fights are in cramped areas where bouncing explosives rule while you never have the range to properly use the Railgun.

Also "soldier-like" enemies like the Tac strogg are obvious evolution of HECU murines, typical enemies of Half Life clones.

Quake 2 was half-assed to begin with haha, I'd say they're about the same, maybe Quake 2 has better art direction. Quake IV is so green and looks kind of plastic at times.

I like QuakeIV's art. IdTech4 made for very clumsy games but... dunnow, I like the art and the techno-horror.

 

[Scarlet Lilith]

I like QuakeIV's art. IdTech4 made for very clumsy games but... dunnow, I like the art and the techno-horror.

Have you played Prey? That game looks AMAZING and its running the same engine. I'm thinking the major problem I had with Quake IV was that it was too brightly lit and that wasn't the strength of the engine, made things look weird at times. Quake 2 was just... brown, but I kind of liked it anyway.

Quake IV has a "pseudo-plot" with in-character cinematics, all the levels are cramped corridors with occasional room combat (not even arenas bar a few instances).

It was pretty long since I've played Quake 2, but wasn't it similar? It had objectives and plot going on, the levels weren't as great as in the first game, both are kind of tech demos sort of. I just don't see why you're drawing comparisons to Half-life so much, and Half-life itself had a tonne of Quake DNA in it.

 

[Lemming42]

Soldier of Fortune is awesome, what are people talking about. Yes the subway level was probably the best in the whole game and yes the later parts were not playtested at all on hard (FUCKING MICROWAVE CANNON) but it's a great game, with the smoothest gunplay of any FPS game of the era. Use the custom difficulty thing to set all options to hardest (including limited saves) except for enemy spawns, which you should NOT put on "Ridiculous" because it'll ruin the whole game. After that, enjoy - it's a tense and very effective game where leaning around corners and racing from cover to cover is the only way to win, because you'll be down in three or four shots.

SoF2 mostly sucks shit though.

 

[UserNamer]

Isn't it pretty much entirely a follow-up to Quake 2 though? In terms of setting, enemies, a lot of the weapons... It has way more in common with Quake 2 than Half-Life. I'm not sure what you mean by it being floaty.

Ah, you mean thematically.

Quake IV is a less shitty Doom3, and they're both Half Life clones. Quake II is boring, but at least it has somewhat big maps that somewhat reward mobility, you can engage enemies at range, weapon variety has a use.... contra, Quake IV has a "pseudo-plot" with in-character cinematics, all the levels are cramped corridors with occasional room combat (not even arenas bar a few instances). It's what I would call a "second gen" shooter compared to Quake II. For example, in Quake IV the Grenade Launcher is king and the railgun useless, because 95% of the fights are in cramped areas where bouncing explosives rule while you never have the range to properly use the Railgun.

Also "soldier-like" enemies like the Tac strogg are obvious evolution of HECU murines, typical enemies of Half Life clones.

Quake 2 was half-assed to begin with haha, I'd say they're about the same, maybe Quake 2 has better art direction. Quake IV is so green and looks kind of plastic at times.

I like QuakeIV's art. IdTech4 made for very clumsy games but... dunnow, I like the art and the techno-horror.

Hecu marines are the ultimate form of human soldier enemies. They hit all the right spot as an enemy type

 

[oddech_wymarlych_swiatow]

half the weapons are shitty

Apart from blaster there are no shitty weapons in Q2.

 

[DalekFlay]

Because of this thread I started farting around with Quake 2 today now during a break from other things. Wow... not saying every criticism is right, but no it does not hold up to my memories of it.

 

[Twiglard]

shotgun: super shotgun but worse

Not really. It has less spread at mid-range. Super shotgun is good (120 dmg) as long as you literally run up to someone -- the equivalent of 1-hex SMG burst in Fallout. As for the chaingun you need to know when to unleash it.

 

[DraQ]

Even Doom 3 took things from System Shock and stuff rather than being a pure shooter.

Even Doom 1 took things from System Shock (interestingly enough given that System Shock didn't exist yet), before they were scaled back into a dumb (if ultimately iconic) shooter. Read any design docs for more info.

Isn't Q4 just a half-assed reheat of Q2?

Quake 2 was half-assed to begin with haha, I'd say they're about the same, maybe Quake 2 has better art direction. Quake IV is so green and looks kind of plastic at times.

Half assed-reheat of a half-assed reheat. What a glowing recommendation.

One similar game to Q2 in terms of nondescript biomechanical blandness, kludginess and low lethality is Eradicator, although I hold it in much higher regard due to:

• Having a lot of fun gimmicks and more diverse and interesting arsenal(s)
• Having hammy space barbarian lizardperson as one of possible protagonists.

submachine gun: somehow less accurate than the shotgun
chaingun: lasts for 3 seconds before it eats all your ammo

MG was actually pretty good workhorse weapon. Not great due to sucking at sustained fire but pretty versatile and good gun to have pulled out if you didn't know what to expect.
CG was the best ammo guzzling mincer to murder threats, it could mince two tanks in the time it took either of them to react to the player.

In the end MG, CG and HB were the only what I'd call mechanically interesting weapons in the game.
Everything else was either straightforward and generic, or hyperconvoluted (BFG).

MG was early implementation of "bursts encouraged" automatic weapon (though Strife's assault rifle takes the cake AND is actually accurate in short bursts).
CG - one of the few gatlings that actually felt right and had its own specific quirks rather than just being a high rate of fire automatic weapon.
HB - an alternative gatling implementation with it's own quirks.

Apart from that:

• Blaster - objectively shit, ersatz flashlight.
• SG - shittier SSG, only useful for watching Guards do death anims.
  
• SSG - generic high-damage, ridiculous spread vidya game shotgun.
• GL - bouncy explosive lobber. Already generic at this point and only really useful for showing off trick shots or 'sploiting AI.
• HG - stealthy GL with no sustained rate of fire.
  
• RL - generic weak FPS rocket launcher.
  
• RG - slow long range powerful hitsdcan + penetration. Penetration almost never came into play, and the weapon actually superseded SSG due to outdamaging it in CQB as well.
• BFG - clusterfuck of inexplicable mechanics handled with less grace than Doom's one.

Actually both SSG and CG were let down by Q2's sub-par enemy mechanics.
Ideally you'd expect to CG to shine at mowing down light to medium armoured swarms of enemies and SG/SSG to take out packed clusters of soft targets at medium range or deal absolutely massive damage to ones close up.

The problem is that Q2 has no armor mechanics for NPCs (even though it has a pretty good one for the player), so it has no concept of soft and hard targets, it doesn't feature swarms either, and RG actually outdamages SSG and can still stunlock, so the best use of CG is mincing beefier enemies and SSG is actually all around worse RG.

Ideally (and this would be accomplishable by just tweaking weapons and giving enemies player-like armour points and types) :

• Blaster would be replaced by something more useful but more situational
• SG would be rapid fire but absolutely sucky against anything remotely armoured
• SSG would deal the most damage of all weapons close up/over a cone, but would share SGs weakness
• MG would be accurate in short burst and only work well against light armour
  
• CG would also only work well against light armour, and there would be soft/lightly armoured swarms clustered enough to make sustained fire attractive, but not enough to cover them all with SSG blast.
• RL would deal the most direct damage against heavy armour of any common weapons AND less penetrating substantial splash.
• RG would ignore armour but not deal as much actual damage/DPS.
• BFG undecided, but double line of sight gimmick would have to go.