inXile General Discussion Thread

[santino27]

BG1 and 2 were mainstream as fuck, dude. In fact, those games were the first ones where the dnd product started to reach outside the dnd public.

They were 'mainstream', for sure (if only in the context of gaming)... but gaming as a whole was also a smaller sector of people, and I'd argue it had more of an intersect with D&D fans than it does now.

In other words, as video games as a hobby continued to grow in popularity, there was a corresponding decrease in the percentage of gamers who shared commonalities with PnPers/D&D fans. While I'm not saying POE was amazing, I think the fact that it was less mainstream than BG2 happened to be in its time has more to do with (a) the state and mindset of gamers then vs. today and (b) the fact that POE was consciously trying to ape a game style that was already over a decade old and thus, by definition, no longer mainstream.

If you want mainstream these days, it feels like you have to go fairly shallow, whether that's Skyrim, Call of Duty, MOBAs, or MMOs.

 

[pippin]

BG was mainstream for the late 90s. I'd argue Bioware managed to sell it more as a "bioware game" than a "dnd game". But I'll concede that it's quite difficult to estimate how mainstream or underground a game franchise was before Halo, Gears of War, God of War et al.

 

[agris]

BG was mainstream for the late 90s. I'd argue Bioware managed to sell it more as a "bioware game" than a "dnd game". But I'll concede that it's quite difficult to estimate how mainstream or underground a game franchise was before Halo, Gears of War, God of War et al.

What popularity wave were they riding, one from shattered steel? It was 1998, not 2008.

 

[Iznaliu]

And all you need is to gather some of the more salient features to please most of them.

When you read about BG1/2 online, you hardly hear about hard counters.

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

1. BG2 didn't sell like gangbusters because of "mage duels" and "hard counters." 14-year-old me played the hell out of it and loved it and had never heard the words "hard" and "counter" put together before. Further to the point of the keys to the I.E. games being different for different people, PoE more than rescratched whatever itch that BG2 scratched for me back in the day. Outside of the Codexian hardcore, I get the sense that most other people who purchased PoE had a similar reaction.

2. I think by any reasonable standards PoE sold quite well. Well enough that Obsidian was able to use the profits to more or less fully develop the sequel and only go to figstarter for some garlands and sprinkles on top.

 

[Sannom]

BG2 was a game bought by fans of AD&D. Hardly mainstream.

Nope. I never knew about AD&D before I bought Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate 2 (what an adventure that was) and Planescape : Torment. I can't remember what drove me to buy them or which one I bought first. It might have PST.

 

[Sizzle]

Before I found the Codex, I had no idea people were supposedly so into the whole "Mage Duel" aspect of BG2's combat.

When I played it (about the time it came out), encountering a high-level enemy mage usually always played out the same: 1) Dispell their magical defenses 2) Hack them to death. Spell contingencies and the like were very fun, don't get me wrong (playing PoE without Wizards can be fun. Playing BG without Mages - not so much), and I consider BG's spell system to be one of the best I've ever seen, but what drew me into BG2 weren't fucking mage duels, but the huge amount of content and things to do, the fun characters (back when BioWare could still passably write 'em), the items.

The way some around here are talking about it, you'd think all of BG2 was one giant mage duel, that required a massive amount of tactics, clever positioning, and careful selection of gear to even think about beating.

 

[FeelTheRads]

1. BG2 didn't sell like gangbusters because of "mage duels" and "hard counters." 14-year-old me played the hell out of it and loved it and had never heard the words "hard" and "counter" put together before. Further to the point of the keys to the I.E. games being different for different people, PoE more than rescratched whatever itch that BG2 scratched for me back in the day.

You don't need to know what something is called for it to be the one of the reasons you enjoyed the game.
Maybe it wouldn't have made any difference for you or for many other people if the games were just as boring shit as PoE is, but then again, maybe it would have. I guess we'll never know.

"I like PoE therefore it's just as BG" is just fucking retarded when one can go point by point through how they're really not the same at all.

 

[Iznaliu]

Hard counters don't affect game quality; it is whether they fit into the game's design and how they are implemented that affects quality.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

BG was mainstream for the late 90s.

Mainstream in the niche of PC RPG players, sure......

 

[Roguey]

The way some around here are talking about it, you'd think all of BG2 was one giant mage duel, that required a massive amount of tactics, clever positioning, and careful selection of gear to even think about beating.

It's because they've all played with Sword Coast Stratagems and no longer remember what the game Bioware designed was like.

 

[Once more unto the Codex]

1. BG2 didn't sell like gangbusters because of "mage duels" and "hard counters." 14-year-old me played the hell out of it and loved it and had never heard the words "hard" and "counter" put together before. Further to the point of the keys to the I.E. games being different for different people, PoE more than rescratched whatever itch that BG2 scratched for me back in the day.

You don't need to know what something is called for it to be the one of the reasons you enjoyed the game.
Maybe it wouldn't have made any difference for you or for many other people if the games were just as boring shit as PoE is, but then again, maybe it would have. I guess we'll never know.

"I like PoE therefore it's just as BG" is just fucking retarded when one can go point by point through how they're really not the same at all.

You're not saying anything that I did not consider when writing what I wrote. I just assumed that most readers would be fair-minded enough to assume that I was reasonable enough to realize these points; otherwise every sentence anyone ever wrote on these forums would have to have 3 paragraphs of citations and explanations attached. The Codex would turn into a series of giant walls of text. Kinda like...TToN.

1. Yes, I know that one need not know the name of something to know its reality.

2. The majority of videogamers would consider BG2 boring shit (Yes, I know that this isn't an actual counter argument about whether or not PoE is boring shit but nothing I say will convince you otherwise so, what would be the point of wasting my time?)

3. On your last point, I can't tell whether you're being facetious or you're actually dense. I like the Witcher series, but it does not scratch the same itch as BG2. PoE doesn't scratch my BG2 itch just because I like it, it does because it does. Hell, TToN scratches (at) my PST itches but I couldn't even bring myself to finish Sagus Cliff let alone the game.

Edit: Also, I am going to be fair-minded and assume that by "same" you mean "similar," rather than assume you are, in your own words, "fucking retarded."

 

[Russia is over. The end.]

The only thing that even remotely scratched that itch was DAO. PoE - not even once.

 

[santino27]

Multiple pages of POE v. BG discussion in a thread dedicated to a developer that didn't make either of them. :D

 

[Sizzle]

The only thing that even remotely scratched that itch was DAO. PoE - not even once.

I completely understand. I also thought this was so much better than anything in PoE

 

[Sensuki]

It's because they've all played with Sword Coast Stratagems and no longer remember what the game Bioware designed was like.

I've only used it once. The other dozens of playthroughs were without.

 

[Roguey]

I've only used it once. The other dozens of playthroughs were without.

Yeah, but you do a lot of micromanagement that most folks would consider unnecessary. If someone ported Pillars of Eternity's content into the Infinity Engine you'd probably have a good time. You wouldn't necessarily think it was great, but you wouldn't hate it.

 

[oldmanpaco]

It's because they've all played with Sword Coast Stratagems and no longer remember what the game Bioware designed was like.

I've only used it once. The other dozens of playthroughs were without.

So you play it like an adventure game? BG2 is many things but challenging is not one of them.

 

[Sizzle]

It's because they've all played with Sword Coast Stratagems and no longer remember what the game Bioware designed was like.

I've only used it once. The other dozens of playthroughs were without.

So you play it like an adventure game? BG2 is many things but challenging is not one of them.

Either that, or he plays it with some artificial handicaps: solo, low-int Diviner on Very Hard difficulty, who's prohibited from cheesing, resting and using any gear that's above +1 enchantment in quality :D

 

[Roguey]

It's no mystery how Sensuki plays the IE games. He recorded a LP of Icewind Dale https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDx90D9TzME&list=PLIRfCmyR7ijJU11xQVn2SXIwmeuajTkom

 

[Prime Junta]

Okay, which one of you bums bumped into Fargo at a store?

 

[FeelTheRads]

At least he didn't say TTON, that wouldn't have been just a mistake, but outright disrespectful.

 

[StaticSpine]

 

[Irenaeus]

That's some good advice for Torment 3.

 

[Jimmious]

I think we clearly became top tier