Grand Strategy Imperator: Rome - the new grand strategy from Paradox

[Life of the Party]

What countries are you guys planning to try first? I'll either try Epirus or Bactria first. I have no interest in Rome or Carthage to be honest.

Probably Athens, as a bit of an extended tutorial.

But my first real game will be Tartessos or something like the Basques or the Picts or anything Old European. I like kicking Aryans back to Ukraine.

From the dim red dawn of Creation,
From the fogs of timeless time
Came we, the first great nation,
First on the upward climb.

Savage, untaught, unknowing,
Groping through primitive night,
Yet faintly catching the glowing,
The hint of the coming Light.

Ranging the lands untraveled,
Sailing o'er seas unknown,
Mazed by the world-puzzles unraveled,
Building our land-marks of stone.

Vaguely grasping at glory,
Gazing beyond our ken
Mutely the ages' story
Rearing on plain and fen.

See, how the Lost Fire smolders,
We are one with the eons' must.
Nations have trod our shoulders,
Trampling us into the dust.

We, the first of the races,
Linking the Old and the New―
Look, where the sea-cloud spaces
Mingle with ocean-blue.

So we have mingled with ages,
And the world-wind our ashes stirs,
Vanished are we from Time's pages,
Our Memory? Wind in the firs.

Stonehenge of long-gone glory,
Sombre and lone in the night,
Murmur the age-old story
How we kindled the first of the light.

Speak, night-winds, of man's creation,
Whisper o'er crag and fen,
The tale of the first great nation,
The last of the Stone Age men.

 

[Werdna's Revenge]

Good to see they continue to keep the same gamey mechanics they use in all their games to balance the multiplayer no one but the devs themselves play.

Honestly I wouldn't mind better retreat options to keep it from being a ping pong match when someone retreats, but shattered retreat is so awful. Maybe something like having armies break up on retreat and scatter all over, giving some groups a chance to make it back if they aren't all individually hunted down, or some sort of option to let armies retreat to safe territory faster, but at a heavy attrition cost.

 

[M. AQVILA]

What countries are you guys planning to try first? I'll either try Epirus or Bactria first. I have no interest in Rome or Carthage to be honest.

But my first real game will be Tartessos or something like the Basques or the Picts or anything Old European. I like kicking Aryans back to Ukraine.

From the dim red dawn of Creation,
From the fogs of timeless time
Came we, the first great nation,
First on the upward climb.

Savage, untaught, unknowing,
Groping through primitive night,
Yet faintly catching the glowing,
The hint of the coming Light.

Ranging the lands untraveled,
Sailing o'er seas unknown,
Mazed by the world-puzzles unraveled,
Building our land-marks of stone.

Vaguely grasping at glory,
Gazing beyond our ken
Mutely the ages' story
Rearing on plain and fen.

See, how the Lost Fire smolders,
We are one with the eons' must.
Nations have trod our shoulders,
Trampling us into the dust.

We, the first of the races,
Linking the Old and the New―
Look, where the sea-cloud spaces
Mingle with ocean-blue.

So we have mingled with ages,
And the world-wind our ashes stirs,
Vanished are we from Time's pages,
Our Memory? Wind in the firs.

Stonehenge of long-gone glory,
Sombre and lone in the night,
Murmur the age-old story
How we kindled the first of the light.

Speak, night-winds, of man's creation,
Whisper o'er crag and fen,
The tale of the first great nation,
The last of the Stone Age men.

Why? We all have much more in common with the Indo-Europeans than some extinct culture. Unless you're Basque of course.

 

[Zeriel]

In Imperator a Shattered Retreat is not only initiated as the result of a lost battle, it can also be initiated at any time by pressing the “Full Retreat” button in the army interface.

Wow, that doesn't sound abusable or anything. So if you ever find yourself in a battle you don't want to fight you don't have to lose a bunch of manpower to enable shattered retreat, just mash the button. I really hope the AI doesn't use this, at all.

What countries are you guys planning to try first? I'll either try Epirus or Bactria first. I have no interest in Rome or Carthage to be honest.

Etruria, but I'm probably gonna mod it real early. I dislike Etruria as one unified blob, think it would make much more sense as at least a few component city-states like Clevsin.

 

[M. AQVILA]

There should be a heavy cost for shattered retreat. Like make morale recovery take more time, lose troops in the process, etc.

 

[Zeriel]

My biggest issue with how it works in CK2 is there really isn't much of a downside at all. It only is a net negative if you're playing a nation so small that they can siege everything down in the time it takes your shattered retreat to recover morale, and it makes raiders an absolutely unplayable mess to deal with. Maybe having shattered retreat only work for really large armies would make it less frustrating?

I really hope it's toggleable. I left it on in CK2 because stackwiping felt a little too easy and cheat-y, but if it's something anyone can do at any time I consider that a broken feature and not even worth having.

I haven't played EU4 a lot but it didn't seem to have much effect there, seemed like they tuned army damage to be so high that by the time retreat happens they've lost most of their men anyway. Of course, if they had manual retreat there it would be much worse too...

 

[Sranchammer]

I'd like to see a combat system that simulates campaigns within a province/area rather than set piece battles

 

[oscar]

Shattered retreat should only be possible if you have a general with equal to or better manoeuver than the victor (as well as national traits making it easier for cultures who weren't averse to melting away and reforming). I agree that entire wars shouldn't be decided in a single battle but you should also be able to pull off battle of Cannae total annihilations if your general is sufficiently badass. But generally these were the exception rather than the rule.

Greater obfuscation of enemy strength would be nice too. It's kind of silly being able to see your enemy has exactly 17,000 men to your 14,000. Something HoMM-like would be more evocative and also encouraging players to gamble more ("the enemy are only a small band", "the enemy army appears of comparable strength to our own", "the enemy's numbers crowd the earth!") than camp on good defensive terrain. Better generals being allowed to see more accurate predictions of enemy force while dummies are more likely to blunder into battles where they'll be heavily outnumbered. Traits could influence this too.

 

[AwesomeButton]

1. There are no longer both defensive and offensive tactics, instead you pick one for your army and it will apply whether you are the attacker or defender.

 

[Life of the Party]

The double envelopment should be the ICBM of this era.

Here's another fun start, although I'm not really sure how the cults work.

Small state based around the cult of the Canaanite deity Atargatis. The state pre-dates Macedonian conquest but has sworn fealty first to Alexander and then to his successors. The Theocratic Monarchy is ruled by the hereditary High Priests of Bambyce.

 

[Zeriel]

Its probably just a Phoenician/Semitic nation using the same religion flavor as Carthage tbh. Paradox is pretty lazy, last I checked Etruscans don't even have their own religion. Someone had to complain on the forums to get them to change Sardinia from Hellenic to Nuragic.

 

[Tigranes]

If only shattered retreat gave you a huge political hit domestically, as news filters through that the Consul's legions have decided to pack up and hit Alt+F4 on the summer campaign, and political factions pounce on his PR crisis to rip him apart.

Instead it'll be a god mode button in a game full of god mode buttons

 

[Zeriel]

If only shattered retreat gave you a huge political hit domestically, as news filters through that the Consul's legions have decided to pack up and hit Alt+F4 on the summer campaign, and political factions pounce on his PR crisis to rip him apart.

Instead it'll be a god mode button in a game full of god mode buttons

That's what I was thinking, War Exhaustion being a thing would probably fix shattered retreats being annoying AF if you knew every SR from an enemy pushed them closer to complete capitulation. There's problems with this approach too like players being frustrated that they're forced into surrendering when they still have armies, but it's something.

 

[Life of the Party]

 

[IDtenT]

I can't wait.

 

[M. AQVILA]

What countries are you guys planning to try first? I'll either try Epirus or Bactria first. I have no interest in Rome or Carthage to be honest.

Some Lusitanian tribe, I will see which one is best.

We're gonna kick the Romans and Punics back their little homes to cry to mama, and create the Lusitanian Empire.

If you're going to do that because you're Brazilian and want to play as the ancestors of the Portuguese than you're mistaken. The name Portugal comes from Portus Cale, which is modern day Porto (Portus). Portugal and the Portuguese language has its origins in the north, not the south. Better play with a Gallaeci tribe, if I was you I would pick the Bracarii (their capital is the future Bracara Augusta and modern day Braga) instead.

 

[M. AQVILA]

Thanks for the suggestion, gonna remember that one.

Would't the Lusitanians be our descendents, too? Even if the linguistic root is not much there.

Funny you recommend the Gallaeci... I spent many years of my life living in a place named after them.

That depends on your origins, and the place your ancestors came from.

I don't know how much you know about the history of Portugal but this should tell you all you need to know.

Here you have maps of pre-Roman times:

Here's a map of Hispania during the time of the first emperor of Rome:

After the fall of Rome 560 A.D.:

After the full conquest by the Visigoths, but before the invasion of the muslims:

Conquest by the muslims 750 A.D.:

After the invasion of the muslims 1000 A.D.:

County of Portugal 1070 A.D.:

Language:

 

[DJOGamer PT]

There is still to this day alot of discussion amongst our historians if we are descendant of the Lusitanian tribes (in the genetic sense). This idea originated in the renaissance.
But ultimately that question doesn't really matter. Because the Lusitans have greatly impacted our culture ever since the country's inception, and as such they are deeply connected to our identity.
So we are kinda their "spiritual successors".

 

[M. AQVILA]

There is still to this day alot of discussion amongst our historians if we are descendant of the Lusitanian tribes (in the genetic sense). This idea originated in the renaissance.
But ultimately that question doesn't really matter. Because the Lusitans have greatly impacted our culture ever since the country's inception, and as such they are deeply connected to our identity.
So we are kinda their "spiritual successors".

I disagree. I don't know where that view came from but those above the Douro river have nothing to do with the Lusitans.

Basically Portuguese identity is as follows:

- Before the Romans: Mostly Celtic with Lusitan in the center-east and a bit of Turdetanian in the south.
- Under Roman rule: Above the Douro river is Gallaecia, bellow the Douro river is Lusitania. Heavy Latinization, including laguage.
- Under Germanic tribes: Above the Tejo river were the Suebi, below it were the Visigoths. Eventually the Visigoths conquer all of Iberia.
- Under Muslim rule: All of the lands that constitute modern Portugal were part of the caliphate. More Arabic influence in the south than in the north.
- Early Reconquista: County of Portugal with its capital in Braga under the Kingdom of Asturias and then Kingdom of Galicia.
- Late Reconquista: A Burgundian noble called Henri becomes ruler of the county of Portugal, the capital is Braga. His son Afonso Henriques becomes King of Portugal, with its capital in Guimarães. Eventually the capital moves to Lisbon in the future.

The name "Portugal" comes from "Portucale", modern day Porto.

Portuguese language comes from the Galician-Portuguese, a romance language originating in Galicia.

Portuguese roots come from the north, not the south. Eventually when the capital moves to Lisbon, that's when the kings start to adopt more the culture from that area.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

snip

Dude this is not something you're going to learn in wikipedia articles. But only if you were Portuguese and grew in this little corner of Europe.
So trust me when I tell you this. The Lusitans are very much apart of our identify and culture, this a fact every one here knows.
It doesn't matter if we are their descendants or not, what matters is that influence they had our country.
Just the fact we've embraced their history, and the idea we are successors to their spirit, for the entirety of our existence was enough to make that impact.

 

[M. AQVILA]

snip

Dude this is not something you're going to learn in wikipedia articles. But only if you were Portuguese and grew in this little corner of Europe.
So trust me when I tell you this. The Lusitans are very much apart of our identify and culture, this a fact every one here knows.
It doesn't matter if we are their descendants or not, what matters is that influence they had our country.
Just the fact we've embraced their history, and the idea we are successors to their spirit, for the entirety of our existence was enough to make that impact.

Dude, I'm Portuguese. I know what I'm talking about. In the north we have more in common with Galicia than Lisbon and the south, I can see it in the architecture, traditions and the people themselves. Don't try to impose that view on all of the country.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Mainland Portuguese have turned into some shit that has little to do with Portuguese culture, especially the cities. Moral and cultural degeneracy everywhere, abandonment of traditional catholic values, the result of centuries of interbreeding with Africans, southamericans.

Portugal as it stands is the shitstain of Europe, dropping its collective pants for every foreigner with money, corrupt in every facet of its life, with a population that lives day to day in poverty and has no ambition beyond the next paycheck.

 

[Makabb]

Portugal as it stands is the shitstain of Europe, dropping its collective pants for every foreigner with money, corrupt in every facet of its life, with a population that lives day to day in poverty and has no ambition beyond the next paycheck.

So just like everywhere else in Europe ?

 

[Tigranes]

Just like most of european history i guess

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Dude, I'm Portuguese.

What?
Weren't you Italian?

Mainland Portuguese have turned into some shit that has little to do with Portuguese culture, especially the cities.

Lisbon sure.
The other regions aren't that bad.
Also you islanders aren't free from this.

Moral and cultural degeneracy everywhere, abandonment of traditional catholic values, ... corrupt in every facet of its life

Like every other place in the West.
Also if you think we're worse than any other country in Europe or even nearly as bad, than you are being a bit delusional.

with a population that lives day to day in poverty

Poverty means barely having means to survive. That is extremely rare here.
Now if by poverty you mean, we are not as rich as other nations, then sure.
But again we live well enough. Besides what's the point in living in a "rich" country if have to pay almost a ridiculous amount of taxes and prices are stupidly high.

with a population that ... has no ambition beyond the next paycheck.

And that's a problem how?
We've always been the kind of people that prefers a nice quiet life.