Heroes of Might and Magic III: The Succession Wars - HOMM2-style total conversion mod for HOMM3

[Orzie]

Certainly. We were (and, to some extent, are) in a different kind of situation: Heroes 2 had only 9 heroes per faction, 54 total, plus 17 campaign-only portraits from The Price of Loyalty expansion.

Heroes 3 basis intends 16 heroes per faction... 144 total. Even with the fact that we currently have only 8 factions instead of standard 9, there is still quite a lot vacancies to be filled. This is why we just couldn't afford leaving someone even if we really wanted to.
The image posted above shows some of the best examples of our work.

In H3SW, Maximus has a newly implemented specialty of Tactics, allowing him to receive additional battlefield hexes in the Tactics mode, with some special rules in sieges.

Skill icons may very well be changed/improved in future.

 

[gunman]

We still have no guarantee that we will be able to implement Heroes 2 campaign mechanics (alternative mission pathways, campaign bonuses). Moreover, standard gameplay rules are still being developed, and I will not bother with balancing the campaigns until they are more or less crystallized.
There WILL be campaigns, including new ones, but the project is a currently on a different stage.

Very cool project, but please try to prioritize the campaigns. That would be the main reason to play it, since HoMM2 campaigns were the strong point of the game.

 

[Endemic]

Looks nice. Any further comment on the magic system? How will spell schools work with HoMM2 magic tiering and costs?

Very cool project, but please try to prioritize the campaigns. That would be the main reason to play it, since HoMM2 campaigns were the strong point of the game.

Play HoMM2 then. As Orzie pointed out, the gameplay rules in this mod are different from H2, and the carryover mechanics like Ogre\Dwarf\Dragon Alliance are not trivial to implement or balance.

 

[gunman]

Play HoMM2 then. As Orzie pointed out, the gameplay rules in this mod are different from H2, and the carryover mechanics like Ogre\Dwarf\Dragon Alliance are not trivial to implement or balance.

I guess not implementing the campaign will limit the audience of this mod, since those interested in multi-player will play HoMM3, and those interested in single-player campaign will have to play HoMM2. Most of the people who prefer HoMM2 over HoMM3 play it for the campaign. That would be too bad for the level of effort invested.

 

[Orzie]

We still have no guarantee that we will be able to implement Heroes 2 campaign mechanics (alternative mission pathways, campaign bonuses). Moreover, standard gameplay rules are still being developed, and I will not bother with balancing the campaigns until they are more or less crystallized.
There WILL be campaigns, including new ones, but the project is a currently on a different stage.

Very cool project, but please try to prioritize the campaigns. That would be the main reason to play it, since HoMM2 campaigns were the strong point of the game.

Maybe they were. However, this did not save the game from fading away, and its community from dying out.
The major problem about HoMM2 (and one of the main advantages of HoMM3) was replayability.

We 'provide' RMG (at least, we have already made sure it works with H3SW no worse than the original Heroes 3), thus providing said replayability.
We work towards the better compatibility with HD Mod, thus providing comfortable playing process for players with modern computers and/or used to all today's features of HoMM3 gameplay.
We also add new content to make sure the legacy of the game is being multiplied and to provide some more reasons to install the game.

Heroes 2 campaigns are a different story, because they are a one-time adventure. What's more important about H3SW right now is the actual game being playable and having most of the features working correctly.

I guess not implementing the campaign will limit the audience of this mod, since those interested in multi-player will play HoMM3, and those interested in single-player campaign will have to play HoMM2. Most of the people who prefer HoMM2 over HoMM3 play it for the campaign. That would be too bad for the level of effort invested.

This is very easy to dispute. Our target auditory is people who prefer HoMM2 over HoMM3 for its graphical style, or at least are able to enjoy both. We got only a few people asking about campaigns, while we had a lot of people asking when they can have this and that.
I suppose campaigns are your personal preference. It's not bad to love them, but I strongly advise playing HoMM2. Even when H3SW will have its own versions of them, this will be a different experience. And - one more reason to play them 'again'.

Looks nice. Any further comment on the magic system? How will spell schools work with HoMM2 magic tiering and costs?

Since we are determined to differentiate spell mass versions from single-stack versions, we also decided how the school skill growth should influence such spells.
One interesting point is that mass-versions are generally weaker in effect and more expensive in mana than the single-stack versions.
Another feature is that some spells may have additional effects if cast in a single-stack version. For example, Expert Dispel Magic could dispel only negative effects from a friendly stack or only positive effects from enemy stack, while Expert Mass Dispel could be less selective and dispel everything from everyone at once. Another example is Bless, which grants additional damage if cast on Advanced and Expert Level, while Expert Mass Bless could be no different than Basic Mass Bless.

The magic system should be designed with regards to some certain 'gameplay standard', which is supposed to be based on some RMG template more or less suitable for competitive play. The factions are supposed to utilize magic in their own individual ways, with for example Sorceress relying more on blesses and (later) summoning spells, the Necromancer relying more on his unique Necromancer spells, the Warlock relying more on damaging spells, the Witch relying on curses cast on attack by her troops, etc. Each of the faction is supposed to have unique gameplay, still being able to rise to power quickly enough to beat the rival. Yes, I realize that it is almost impossible to balance.

 

[Endemic]

Sounds reasonable enough.

Are you planning to rebalance the map spells like Town Portal and Dimension Door?

 

[hello friend]

RMG is in? Neat.

Does your mod install on top of the HOMM3 install or does it create a new directory?

 

[Endemic]

RMG is in? Neat.

Does your mod install on top of the HOMM3 install or does it create a new directory?

It installs inside the HOMM3 directory and works in conjunction with the HD Mod, but has its own executable.

 

[Orzie]

Sounds reasonable enough.

Are you planning to rebalance the map spells like Town Portal and Dimension Door?

In modern HoMM3 gameplay. the usage of Dimension Door is limited to 1 time per day on standard, 2 times for Basic Air Magic, 3 times for Adv. Air Magic, and 4 times for Exp. Air Magic. I suppose we'll go with that until further notice.
I'd like to see Town Portal as a Water Magic spell, both as homage to MM series where Town Portal and Lloyd's Beacon were all Water spells, and to make Water Magic more desirable for the player. In classic HoMM3, Water is the least required school of magic.
Regarding its usage, I guess, it also could be limited like Dimension Door. For me, all my HoMM2 gameplay was ruined when I received any of the spells, so I'm happy that HoMM3 engine gives instruments to control that.

RMG is in? Neat.

Does your mod install on top of the HOMM3 install or does it create a new directory?

It installs inside the HOMM3 directory and works in conjunction with the HD Mod, but has its own executable.

It can be also installed in the same directory with Heroes 3 HotA, but it is important to install HD Mod in the end over the whole mod chain in order for patcher_x86.dll to be working correctly with HotA and HD. If H3SW is installed over HD and/or HotA, the file will be outdated and both HotA and HD will not be able to launch. In reverse case, H3SW will still be launchable from HD Mod Launcher. Standard h3sw.exe may or may not be functional depending on your operating system.

 

[Endemic]

In modern HoMM3 gameplay. the usage of Dimension Door is limited to 1 time per day on standard, 2 times for Basic Air Magic, 3 times for Adv. Air Magic, and 4 times for Exp. Air Magic. I suppose we'll go with that until further notice.

I'd like to see Town Portal as a Water Magic spell, both as homage to MM series where Town Portal and Lloyd's Beacon were all Water spells, and to make Water Magic more desirable for the player. In classic HoMM3, Water is the least required school of magic.

Regarding its usage, I guess, it also could be limited like Dimension Door. For me, all my HoMM2 gameplay was ruined when I received any of the spells, so I'm happy that HoMM3 engine gives instruments to control that.

Well yeah, it's very likely that the first person in an MP match that gets either of those spells wins. Banning them outright is an inelegant solution, so I think limiting their usage is the way to go.

 

[RNGsus]

You fucking cheater.

 

[Orzie]

Cheats are made by developers to show and test things.
Morons are made to crap in the comment section.

 

[Aemar]

The image posted above shows some of the best examples of our work.

Excellent job with these new portraits, they fit in infinitely better than the ones belonging to the expansion. HOMM2 didn't need portraits of Cyberlore devs.

In H3SW, Maximus has a newly implemented specialty of Tactics, allowing him to receive additional battlefield hexes in the Tactics mode, with some special rules in sieges.

 

[Orzie]

In fact, HoMM2 + PoL portrait pool features three different styles, the one being "slightly improved Heroes 1" mainly used for earlier MM game reference characters, the other being actual new Heroes 2 portraits for Necromancer and Wizard factions plus some vacancies in already existing factions and campaign characters, and finally the third being PoL campaign-only heroes. There was a rumor that these PoL portraits were based over Cyberlore employees. Anyhow, the quality of graphics for portraits was varied for the whole portrait pool.

Like I said before, we cannot allow leaving behind any of the classical portraits, so we brought back Arturius, Luna, Yog, Lord Haart from Heroes 1 and polished them quite a little, and also started transforming PoL portraits to something closer to general H3SW style. It's not completely H2 style though, it's something in between.

classic H2 portrait scaled down

restyled PoL portrait

some of the new portraits

 

[Shadenuat]

an arabian bracadian wizard dervish named Joseph

lizard bros don't seem like they fit much into homm2 sprites

 

[Orzie]

That is only because this game never had non-humans in the roster (or, at least, that's how it seemed to players, because there is a selection of genies, Tyro, Maximus, elves, plus Rialdo and Brother Brax who are barely human). Indeed there are some key rules to follow when the character is being developed, but they should primarily concern the angle and general face shape. Something can always be done to improve the exterior.

 

[Parsifarka]

I would qualify some of the exemplars as excellent, but this one in particular is just perfect.
So good it's hard to believe it wasn't done by NWC.

Are there any plans (or is it even possible) to add the Duel mode from Ubi era to the game? I reckon that may be the only good thing they did to the saga.

 

[Orzie]

Never heard of that. That must be from newer installments of the series.

Currently, there is only one opportunity of playing online: via using services like GameRanger (a little trick with EXE renaming will be required though).
A recording of working example of such connection (outdated H3SW v0.8.0 build): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KaFpkopnEL0

In future, there might be a possibility to somehow get access to HoMM3 online lobby being developed by Baratorch, the creator of HD Mod for HoMM3.

 

[RNGsus]

Do you think you will remove archers/rangers and add angels at some point?

 

[Orzie]

Well, Archers cannot be removed for a very big reason: they are a part of Knight's starting army and that's how it was in original Heroes 1/Heroes 2. This defined the playing style of the Knight, too, and the general impression of Knight's army in the beginning of the game. If we were to change the Knight starting army in this way, the Knight would be perceived as a different faction. It's more fitting to Necromancer when the player focuses on loss/regain strategy, and this is why Necromancer has only one shooter in his army.

There is also a certain reason about Angels not being present in the Knight lineup. I of course agree that Knight gameplay is currently underdeveloped, and all of this is due to a very specific reason: the original faction design.

You see, in original H1/H2 the Knight was a medieval-style lord (possibly inspired by Lords of the Realm game by Sierra Impressions). The Knight lineup consists only of standard human troops, all of them also being upgradeable to show "civilized"/"sentient" nature and affiliation with technology (except Peasants, the first tier and a creature designed to be the weakest in the game). In earliest Heroes games the Knight is shown to be the weakest, yet with the most number of troops. The faction lineup is portrayed as a feudal army in contrary to Heroes 3 where it is closer to Renaissance in exterior and to "The Army of Good" in concept.

When we got a 7th vacancy to fill for the faction, we had several possible options: a second shooter stack, an Angel (the only flyer people could think of), or just one more melee stack. Since the Knight already has self-sufficient Swordsmen and Pikemen, who in fact have the same role in gameplay and were originally too close to each other, the latter option was unlikely. In Heroes gameplay, it is barely possible to differentiate them, because it's not Mount and Blade. So, another melee stack just felt redundant because the Knight already had too many.
The Angel is simply out of the faction concept. When you have Peasants in army and at the same time you have Angels driven into fight by an order of a feudal lord - well, it's just not how things should be.
Another reason is that Heroes 2 is free of actual religion, so to say. It is, of course, featuring Crystal Dragon Jesus as the Enroth's religion, with Crusaders as a primary force of it, but there is no place for magical beings in the Knight lineup.

Even the Devils, who are to be added in the 9th 'Heretic' faction, are based on Might&Magic VI Kreegan concept instead of Christian devil-ish concept like in Heroes 3. This is intentional. They still did a good job with HoMM3 devils though.

So, having a Crossbowman as a second shooting stack seems to be the best solution for the faction to look as it was intended by the original developers. Just like Pikemen and Swordsmen are parts of a feudal army, so are the Archers and Crossbowmen (see Lords of the Realm II, for example). To add some variety, we designed the Crossbowman as a more heavily armored troop receiving even more armor upon upgrade to make it look more like a male guardsman in contrary to female scout/page look of the Archer. In current gameplay, the Archer/Ranger stack is also being obliterated not so soon as in original Heroes 2, where it was nothing but a frustration in sieges because the said stack diminished pretty quickly.

 

[RNGsus]

A siege can whittle archer/rangers to nothing, and they still have to shoot over walls. Is it possible for archers/rangers to ignore obstacles then, allowing them to shoot over walls and terrain without penalty? A reasonable aoe attack would be nice if that's out of the question.

 

[Orzie]

It's possible to give this ability to any shooter technically, if that is the question. I wouldn't like Archers/Rangers shooting through walls without a penalty though. They will become too strong and the Golden Bow artifact will be useless.
In current gameplay, the stack is doing fine: the damage from arrow towers is now being dispersed on both Archers and Xbowmen, and sometimes on other stacks as well. The AI in Heroes 3 is somewhat different. A hero with a developed Artillery secondary skill will be able to control the towers and direct their damage, but this is a different story anyway.

We are thinking about a different strategy of making Knight more viable in sieges in absence of fliers. It is a special catapult (Trebuchet) given to all Knight heroes as a class bonus, with more hit points and additional advantages in siege. Some other adjustments can also be made for Knight heroes in future.

 

[Orzie]

Those who visit our official forum on Forums of Enroth have probably seen the newly opened section for H3SW user-created maps. The forum staff is busy developing an Internet resource for storing and rating the maps, which is intended to keep the fan-made H3SW maps as well.

For those who are fed up with native v0.8.1 maps can enjoy first user-made maps created to be played with the actual H3SW version.

DOWNLOAD LINK
Map list:

S - The Ultimate Mug of Ale by Ctesiphon
M - Migration by Ctesiphon
M - Parental Guidance by Ctesiphon
M - Stench from Below by Ctesiphon
M - Oriole Island by Ctesiphon
L - The Chain by Ctesiphon
XL - Arna Road by number128
XL - Fated Circle by number128
XL - Sisters to the Slaughter by number128
XL - The Last But Not Least by number128

To play, it is enough to copy the contents of the zip archive to the folder:
<your Heroes 3 directory>/Mods/The Succession Wars 0.8.1/H2MP/

To leave a review or make your own thread dedicated to a map, feel free to visit the respective subforum:
http://heroes2.forumactif.com/f43-h3sw-maps

P.S. Warning for mapmakers: the state of graphical files of the mod, gaming mechanics and balance might and will be changed in every update of the mod, so maps can lose relevance and will require some mending even after the release of the next v0.8.2 update.

 

[jaydee2k]

I'm playing random maps to death lately and just wanted to say a big fucking thank you to you guys.
Mod is really really good. As someone who hates Heroes 3 graphics I appreciate the high class work you russians put in this.

 

[Orzie]

Thanks. I can't say it's all about Russians though: the team has always been international, with a lot of the guys coming from Poland and some other countries. Currently, one of the core team members is Danish, even.