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KickStarter Grim Dawn

xuerebx

Erudite
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
1,027
I do enjoy going back to bosses I found tough the first time round, but then pummelling them on the second time we meet.

Also thanks to the tips here I brought up the acid/poison resistance from 14% to 75% and breezed through the next area B).
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
15,269
Resistances are pretty much always key, moreso than any other stat. For the first 30 levels or so you should always be switching out new equipment for stuff which has more net resistances and ignoring basically everything else. The only exceptions are Vitality/Aether/Chaos which can be somewhat skimped on in short bursts since they are more area dependent.

Protip: Augments and components are entirely separate and all of your items can have both. Amazing? Took like 100 hours for me to figure that out.

After your first character you'll build up a stash with dozens to hundreds of each component and augment which make it all a lot simpler. Also check for components that you can craft, there's lots of craftable components that provide resistance. Throw components in everything, there's basically no drawback since you can salvage it back when you want to upgrade. They are sort of your flexible resistance pool that you can use to fill in gaps in equipment.
 
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Shitty Kitty

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Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
This is more of an advanced concept due to how snarly things like conversion can get, but something a lot of people don't know about physical damage is that it's actually one of the worst damage types to main under most conditions.

Why, you ask? Because it's subject to reduction not only from Physical Resistance but Armor Rating as well.

There's a catch, though. If you have some elemental or aether or whatever really damage lying around and convert it to physical (some items/components/etc. can do this for you), suddenly it COMPLETELY IGNORES that pesky Armor Rating stat and it becomes an incredibly solid damage type. Note that you cannot convert twice.
 

Gay-Lussac

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
7,563
Location
Your mom
Which brings me to my question, since I am also coming across other enemies who spray acid/poison damage which are destroying me too fast - without cheating and going online to search for items, how do you build up a strategy to start focusing on bringing up a particular resistance?
The main issue with Grim Dawn is that it's balanced as if it's an online-only game with lots of trading, especially after all the patches. I'm not sure if they understood that the game is mostly played offline and there are no persistent servers.


I agree. It's crazy that I played this for 300 hours on a single char and never got anywhere close to the endgame gear I actually wanted.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,735
Pathfinder: Wrath
Yeah, the sheer amount of gear makes it fairly difficult to get what you actually want. The drop rates are fine, imo, but the vastness of the gear selection is overwhelming. It would've been better had there been areas to grind specific pools of gear. The game has enough to cover basically everything. Every legendary and epic item dropping everywhere is a problem. Only the Crucible and the Shards should have the entire item pool.
 
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Shitty Kitty

Self-Ejected
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Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
Solo self-found gets to be a righteous pain in the ass for that reason, yes, at least with certain builds that have very particular pieces in their BiS gearing. It's generally a good idea to make your first character simple enough to gear that it can handle Shards, higher-level Cruc and/or roguelike dungeons without major issue as you'll be running through those CONSTANTLY farming for certain gear. On a side note try not to make the legendary Alkamos rings or the legendary Forgotten Gods MI rings an integral part of any build because the drop rates on those things are ABYSMAL.
 

xuerebx

Erudite
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
1,027
The amount of gear I find is verging on the ridiculous, I fill up all my inventory (including the extra inventory space I was rewarded) after every run. Most of the stuff isn't for my character so I just sell (except for amulets and trinkets, which I'm now keeping JUST IN CASE I need to beef up some resistances).

Anyway, nearly level 50 now! I've got 2 questions which I think asking them at this point is a bit embarrassing, but here goes:

1) In the inventory screen, you can look at the amount of elemental (e.g. cold) damage that your character does. Does this also influence the amount of damage of spells, such as Olexra's Flash Freeze? My cold damage is very low, but my pierce damage is very high. I can modify this by equipping cold-damage focused weapons, but I don't think this helps the Flash Freeze. My initial reaction to my own question is no, the cold damage modifier on the character screen does not influence the Flash Freeze, but I'm not sure.

2) I've got a HUGE stash of epic items not suitable for my character - should I just sell these and keep a select few just in case I want to use them for a new character? I keep holding on to them and feel like a hoarder.
 

Lacrymas

Arcane
Joined
Sep 23, 2015
Messages
18,735
Pathfinder: Wrath
1) No, only % damage increases increase the damage of spells. The flat damages mean how much of that damage you do with weapons.
2) It's up to you whether to keep or to sell, but I'd grab a mod that gives you infinite space. I like twinking.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,154
Location
Platypus Planet
I find most epics to be pretty useless. The faction greens are good enough (read: they are really good) to last you until you get your end game legendaries. There are exceptions, but that's how it works for me most of the time. I keep them since I'm a collector but rarely use most of them.
 

xuerebx

Erudite
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
1,027
Thanks guys!

Wrt point 1 - so if I equip a sword which contributes a 10% increase to cold damage - this will increase the cold damage dealt by the Flash Freeze?
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,294
So i decided to give this a spin.

Level 18, Oathkeeper + a few points in Inquisitor so i'm called a Paladin now lel.

So far it's going well. Playing on Veteran of course because i'm not a scrub, even though i have no idea how anything is supposed to work or how to build my character, just going by gut feeling, both in terms of my build and what to keep in my stash and what to sell.

I'm using this as a template in case i ever decided to push for Elite or Ultimate:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2B8...oZbhZR1dnwVClRSQHAf4pX15nOlU21qlAbBnBqO6aEy4U

But i'm not really following it beyond making sure not to mess up my character permanently (for instance, by putting points in spirit where as the guy who made that build never did).
 
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Shitty Kitty

Self-Ejected
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
So i decided to give this a spin.

Level 18, Oathkeeper + a few points in Inquisitor so i'm called a Paladin now lel.

So far it's going well. Playing on Veteran of course because i'm not a scrub, even though i have no idea how anything is supposed to work or how to build my character, just going by gut feeling, both in terms of my build and what to keep in my stash and what to sell.

I'm using this as a template in case i ever decided to push for Elite or Ultimate:

https://www.grimtools.com/calc/r2B8...oZbhZR1dnwVClRSQHAf4pX15nOlU21qlAbBnBqO6aEy4U

But i'm not really following it beyond making sure not to mess up my character permanently (for instance, by putting points in spirit where as the guy who made that build never did).
There is a rare tonic you can get from completing the Ashes of Malmouth section or as a chance drop from Nemesis chests that will allow you to redo your stats, but it's generally better to plan well instead of using those tonics to walk back retarded choices.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,294
Yeah like i said i'm just using that build to monitor for permanent bad decisions but for skills which appear very cheap to respec i'm going with the flow.

Lots of builds out there but scant info about skills specifically. I get there's a lot of them but i want to know why the build is what it is.

For instance, i stumbled on a steam discussion that mentioned how you get less for skill point on Deadly Aim after rank 4.

That's the kind of stuff i'd like to know in advance. Can't find any systematic guide on what each skill does specifically, in a meta sense.

I'm also overwhelmed by the amount of prefixes and suffixes on items. Hopefully i won't end up vendoring something that's actually good.
 
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Shitty Kitty

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Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
Yeah like i said i'm just using that build to monitor for permanent bad decisions but for skills which appear very cheap to respec i'm going with the flow.

Lots of builds out there but scant info about skills specifically. I get there's a lot of them but i want to know why the build is what it is.

For instance, i stumbled on a steam discussion that mentioned how you get less for skill point on Deadly Aim after rank 4.

That's the kind of stuff i'd like to know in advance. Can't find any systematic guide on what each skill does specifically, in a meta sense.

I'm also overwhelmed by the amount of prefixes and suffixes on items. Hopefully i won't end up vendoring something that's actually good.
The Crate Entertainment forums can be a good resource to skim for skill/build guides and can help people avoid "noobtrap" choices. They have an official Discord with a subsection devoted to builds generally populated by some of the more knowledgeable people but Discord is for fags.

Skill scaling per point is very much a case-by-case thing with some skills actually offering BETTER scaling on overcap than up to soft cap. Tenacity of the Boar comes to mind immediately. Most passives are rarely worth more than a single spent point in my past experience but there are some that are worth substantial investment. Almost any kind of "backbone" skill for a given build, the skill you'll be doing most of your work with, is worth full overcap (26/16 Savagery or Blade Arc, for example) but exceptions by case do exist. In Deadly Aim's case the poor scaling might be more than balanced out by the benefit ANY increase in the skill provides being important to a build's function, but it's been a little while since I ran anything with Inquisitor in the mix.

Also, re: affixes in early game - a proc affix that gels well with your playstyle/build is easily one of the more important affixes you can find, with some procs even at lower levels being absolutely amazing. Stat bonuses (flat or percentage) to Physique/Cunning/Spirit tend to be near the bottom of the ladder. Relevant skill boni can be good but aren't usually up there. Resistance boni can be very helpful, as can OA/DA boni.

In regards to OA/DA around endgame, OA/DA shreds from skills and such are fairly important. Something that cuts enemy DA by 50 is equivalent to giving yourself 50 OA. Endgame OA for a build that relies on clobbering shit should be well over 3k, you won't start hitting major diminishing returns until you blow past 3200-3300 OA, and shredded enemy DA + >=3300 OA is better than just pushing OA to ludicrous levels on its own as you get more effective OA without running into the diminishing returns problem. A good baseline for DA by endgame-ish is 2500 or greater, more is better and I don't even remember if DA runs into the same diminishing returns issue or at what point.
 
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Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,294
How is damage calculated?

Right now for instance i have an axe that does physical and fire damage. Now Righteous Fervor at 16 has 90% physical damage and 90% fire damage. I assume that percentage amplifies the bonus from my axe right?

What i wonder is whether that's calculated in the damage per second total on the character screen. If my axe did cold damage instead, it wouldn't get any bonus from Righteous Fervor but would that be included in the total DPS score?

Likewise for gear that says 16% fire damage, 16% cold damage etc if my attack doesn't do the correlative damage those bonuses won't do anything, right? And if they do, do they show up in the DPS score?

You mentioned weapons that have procs. Right now i have a mace that does like -273 total damage compared to my axe but has a proc that dishes out 110-330 damage over 3 targets. How do i tell witch is better?
 
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Shitty Kitty

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Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
How is damage calculated?

Right now for instance i have an axe that does physical and fire damage. Now Righteous Fervor at 16 has 90% physical damage and 90% fire damage. I assume that percentage amplifies the bonus from my axe right?
I believe so. I remember being told that with default attack replacers that add charges (like RF, Savagery and such) any bonus to damage pretty much only ever applies to weapon attacks using that skill - meaning Savagery's bonus to Lightning damage when it's charged up does NOT affect things like Primal Strike or Storm Totem, and I assume Righteous Fervor works in the same way as a result.

What i wonder is whether that's calculated in the damage per second total on the character screen. If my axe did cold damage instead, it wouldn't get any bonus from Righteous Fervor but would that be included in the total DPS score?
If your axe did nothing but cold damage, yes, it would receive no benefit from RF's % damage buffs, to my knowledge. As far as damage shown on the sheet, there are times I feel it does not line up with what I actually see in game. Might be due to things the sheet doesn't model, like DA shreds or what-have-you.

Likewise for gear that says 16% fire damage, 16% cold damage etc if my attack doesn't do the correlative damage those bonuses won't do anything, right? And if they do, do they show up in the DPS score?
Correct. I believe they will show up in the DPS score, but again I question the figure's accuracy at times.

You mentioned weapons that have procs. Right now i have a mace that does like -273 total damage compared to my axe but has a proc that dishes out 110-330 damage over 3 targets. How do i tell witch is better?
My instinct there is to say the axe is actually better because that is a substantial damage gap in regular damage that the proc would have a hard time closing without incredibly good luck on proc frequency. If the proc does MORE than just damage (shreds DA, lowers resists, lowers enemy accuracy etc.) that alone can make it a fantastic item against groups and might make it worth keeping around at least in the alt weapon slot if not for another character. Sometimes just playing it by ear can give you a pretty good idea of which is going to be better for you - basically test driving the two weapons through a given area and see which one gets you to the other side faster and in better health.

EDIT: Just kind of crunching the numbers in a casual fashion tells me that if the proc has a 20-25 percent of triggering or so it might at least break even over time with the axe's regular DPS, assuming the proc does a damage type that lines up well with your main damage types and thus can benefit from any damage bonuses you have outside of RF's bonuses (slightly hazy on whether the RF damage bonus to damage done with weapon attacks will be conferred to a proc triggered by a weapon attack, instinct is telling me no). This situation only really holds true if you have plenty of enemies around to maximize benefit from proc damage, though - if you aren't hacking through a lot of grouped mobs the proc will fall behind because you're not going to get as much benefit from its ability to hit multiple enemies, but if you have a number of mobs closing within range of the proc it could likely end up churning out better DPS than the axe.
 
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Shitty Kitty

Self-Ejected
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
As a side note: anything that keys partially or fully off Weapon Damage (see: Falcon's Falcon Swoop proc) might well benefit from default attack replacer damage buffs (like Savagery/RF/etc). Trying to verify this for certain but I think I remember this being the case.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,294
I just learned that procs on items actually stack. I got 10% fireball on a shoulder piece, 10% on an iceball on wrist and 20% or some aoe shit on my shield and they all proc lul.

Way too many areas that i can't access because i need dynamite. I'll probably forget them all by the time i get my hands on some. There's also some cellar out there on an island you read by a boat i have no idea how to get into.

Ho, i just killed the guy in the hidden cave even though i'm probably under leveled. Took me about 20 health potions lmao but at least one less secret area i have to remember. Chest dropped jack shit though kind of disappointing.
 
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Shitty Kitty

Self-Ejected
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
Now that I've looked over the changes 1.1.9.0 brought through and made sure at least this character was up to date to ensure a minimum of confusion
https://www.grimtools.com/calc/eVLwjeP2

This is a Warder, focused primarily on Bleed with Physical/trauma as supplemental. The Physical damage is necessary due to its dependence on life steal - life steal will not function with anything but Physical damage (meaning, if you do not do an appreciable amount of Physical damage don't bother with anything that gives life steal aka Attack Damage Converted to Health - ADCtH for short).

Some notes, a number of which are broadly applicable to a number of builds:
The Lightning to Physical conversion on the Avenger's Crusher is somewhat important as it lets me funnel a lot of the Lightning damage coming from various things on the Shaman side into Physical damage that will bypass enemy Armor Rating, and makes my life steal that much better.

The OA sits at just over 3k with merely "Permanent" buffs on (the type you can set-and-forget, these typically reserve a chunk of your energy but that is absolutely not an issue with this build). The "Temporary" buffs that pump OA to just shy of 3250 usually come into play after Savagery's good and charged up, barring the buffs from Wendigo Totem w/ Blood Pact which do not affect OA anyway. To make use of Wendigo Totem's goodies you will need to stay within its radius. Proc buffs will start piling in at appropriate triggers (for which there are many) and at that point the character hits his full stride, reaching around 3.4k OA and making him crit like crazy on most things.

There are numerous sources of DA shred present - Seal of Annihilation, Howl of Mogdrogen and Markovian's Advantage altogether provide over 300 points of DA shred, raising my effective OA over 3700. More crits, more fun, minimizing diminishing returns on just pumping OA to the sky.

Crits are important here because DoTs make a crit check on every tick, and if they crit once they will crit every tick thereafter IIRC.

Life steal with all buffs/procs active exceeds 100 percent. This is NOT a waste. What happens is if my life steal is at, say, 120 percent, the game looks at my Physical damage done and multiplies that by 1.2 to determine how much life I steal. If I do 10000 points of Physical damage in a strike after all resistance and Armor Rating have been factored in, I steal 12000 health. This also means I actually do 12000 points of damage IIRC, with a caveat - any life steal checks against an enemy's Life Leech resist (most Bosses are highly resistant to Life Leech as well as crowd control stuff like Freezing, Stun, etc.).

The augment on the weapon is pretty much only there for the little bit of Chaos resist (which I could make up fairly easily elsewhere anyway) and for that resist reduction proc - this setup gives me access to all three forms of resistance reduction which will calculate in the order specified in that sheet I posted earlier. The transmuter for War Cry is STRICTLY better than Break Morale for this build because Break Morale only reduces Physical resistance by a flat number, whereas Terrify reduces ALL RESISTANCES (including Life Leech and CC resists IIRC) by a flat number. It's also vastly more economical for point investment in this case. The "cause fear" effect is an afterthought but can get swarms of mook mobs to break up a bit and thus increases your mobility, which is important for Melee builds in particular as you REALLY want to be able to move out of the way of a telegraphed big hit from a mob or get out of an AoE set by a back-row caster.

Total potential resist reduction is 18 flat from Terrify, 15% reduced from the weapon augment, -35% Bleeding resist from DevSwarm + -32% Bleeding resist from the Rend proc coming from the Huntress constellation for easily ~100 percent reduction of Bleed resist against pretty much anything I hit (this is ENORMOUSLY handy when dealing with Undead, who are under normal circumstances utterly immune to Bleeding) plus reducing resistance to things like the Vitality damage my Wendigo totem adds/inflicts, the Physical damage my life steal keys off of and the Internal Trauma physical DoT (which does not give life steal but hey, more damage). Making that Wendigo Totem hit a little harder is fairly minor as it kicks you the health regardless, but it's something.

Note that Falcon Swoop keys off weapon damage and does physical damage. Guess what that means? Yes, it can life steal too. Falcon Swoop is particularly bonkers because it fires multiple projectiles, and this can result in an effect called "shotgunning" where ALL PROJECTILES hit the same target and each one calculates damage, crit chance etc. separately. IIRC they nerfed Falcon Swoop and it's still fantastic. Any time you see that "main hand damage" or "weapon damage" field, it's gonna help you a lot to have a decent weapon and good OA.

Circuit breakers are fantastic things to have - they're skills/procs that kick in to save your ass from big damage spikes and such. Ghoulish Hunger kicks in when your health reaches 45 percent or lower, Menhir's Will kicks in at 33 percent or lower. More is generally better. Ghoul's Ghoulish Hunger proc is great for melee types with physical damage in the mix because it adds a big chunk of life steal and a good dose of Physical resistance.

Overcapping resistances by Ultimate is advised as enemies can and will use resist reduction, and you should probably overcap your main damage type heavily if YOU have RR targeted at that damage type's resistance because RR can be bounced back at you if the RR was attached to a damaging skill (like DevSwarm). In general, know when you're likely to run into a mob that will reflect and watch for that reflection shield - when it goes up, pick someone else to beat on for a bit. The resistances that are less important to overcap tend to be things like Stun and other forms of CC resistance as most enemies don't have RR that targets them, but this may not always be the case (especially if you run into a mob wielding an item that can proc an RR that goes after all resistances). It is still a good idea, if you value mobility at all (you should) to have some CC resistance on the board because getting trapped/frozen/stunned/slowed at the wrong time can get you killed very fast, and if it happens you want it to go away ASAP. Even if you have "broad spectrum" RR, though, don't count on crowd control ever being useful against bosses as they tend to have CC resists in the range of 500 percent.

DA sits in a comfortable range of over 2800 at pretty much all times here, with a little OA shred to increase its efficacy. This should keep you from getting gibbed by most big nasties, though some bosses will still be able to crit regardless (the DA threshold to reduce a number of bosses' crit chance to near nil is absurdly high anyway). Any DA level under 2500 by endgame is asking to get hurt really bad. Do not neglect it, but remember that you can't really be completely invincible either.

Normally on this build I would one-point Blitz as a "mobility" skill but with the new medal augments from Forgotten Gods you now have a lot of great options to replace (or supplement) things like Blitz. In this case you could probably borrow a point from something like Heart of the Wild or MAYBE ignore Military Conditioning altogether to give yourself another mobility maneuver. Up to you, and different strokes for different folks.

EDIT: One last thing - it pays to stack up a number of different skill sources of inflicting Bleed. The flat bleeding damage all over the place feeds into all the ones that check Weapon Damage, and as long as the bleeding comes from different skills they will all pile on separately leading to a number of different bleed ticks going all at once. This is one of the reasons I gave Grasping Vines/Entangling Vines each a single point - the bleed damage certainly isn't astronomical due to not calc'ing off WD but it's still yet another source and the slow/immobilize stuff can help with mook mobs.
 
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Shitty Kitty

Self-Ejected
Joined
Sep 9, 2020
Messages
556
I just learned that procs on items actually stack. I got 10% fireball on a shoulder piece, 10% on an iceball on wrist and 20% or some aoe shit on my shield and they all proc lul.

Way too many areas that i can't access because i need dynamite. I'll probably forget them all by the time i get my hands on some. There's also some cellar out there on an island you read by a boat i have no idea how to get into.

Ho, i just killed the guy in the hidden cave even though i'm probably under leveled. Took me about 20 health potions lmao but at least one less secret area i have to remember. Chest dropped jack shit though kind of disappointing.
Yes, piling up procs is GREAT at pretty much any part of the game because they will not interfere with each other typically and it's perfectly possible to have pretty much every proc go off at the same time for potentially massive damage spikes. Some of the faction gear (Devil's Crossing and Homestead come to mind immediately) has really great procs depending on your build, and they never really cost anything (besides occupying a possible enchantment on an item, and procs are at times one of the BEST enchantments you can get).

Side note about certain chests: the One-Shot chests (notable because they're visually exactly like another type of chest but a distinctive gold color) can always be found in certain areas, will always drop at least 1 Epic or better item, but can only ever be opened once. If you're a massive munchkin, you can hold off opening them until you're level 50 or higher - once you hit level 50 you can start seeing Legendary (purple name) items in drops. This typically isn't worth it on a first character, and if you have a strict solo-self-found rule it may or may not ever be worth it for you as you might really need better gear regardless of whether it's Legendary or not, at that exact moment.

Re: places to come back to with Dynamite - some of them are VERY MUCH worth it. It can help to make notes, or barring that you can usually find the locations of such things on GrimTools. (Taking notes is more fun.) Re: the cellar that you see on that island after that boat ride - DEFINITELY come back to that at a later point (it's tied to an optional quest in Devil's Crossing that becomes available after the core MQ for sure, possibly earlier), it's both great for a certain rare item drop and for some backstory on some of the critters you've been killing so far.
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
58,294
Well, i decked myself with proc shit on almost ever gear slot lul i can't even tell wtf is happening anymore i'm like a walking lightshow.

I'm starting to find dynamite sticks. Can they be farmed, or are they fixed in number?

My stash getting swamped with shit i think i'm just going to vendor most shit, even some blues. Fuck alts.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,154
Location
Platypus Planet
Well, i decked myself with proc shit on almost ever gear slot lul i can't even tell wtf is happening anymore i'm like a walking lightshow.

I'm starting to find dynamite sticks. Can they be farmed, or are they fixed in number?
Dynamite can be farmed.

My stash getting swamped with shit i think i'm just going to vendor most shit, even some blues. Fuck alts.
You can use dynamite to dismantle items to get components.
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
14,154
Location
Platypus Planet
Gotta have to try that. Is it hard to farm dynamite?
Nah, not really. It helps to have good run speed though since farming dynamite means you run a lot. There are a few places where you are always guaranteed to find dynamite lying around and some special mobs will always drop it when they die. If you play the game a lot then you'll accumulate a ton of dynamite but if you're in just for a character or two then doing a few runs for excess dynamite isn't a bad idea. There are optional areas that require dynamite to unlock and turning excess rare equips into good components is better value than just selling them for iron bits. Selling items for bits in general is not the way to make money since you get pitifully small amounts. There are some special chests that are opened with dynamite that throw tons of bits at you and this is one of the main ways of getting cash.
 

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