Great job, Bioware!

[WalterKinde]

Yep he did help iin derailing the thread I do not know if it was deliberate or not but certainly didn't help , he just threw gas on the flames with his first post on page 1 , the replies on what EA Bioware has done as relates to this very stupid DRM scheme was, IT DOES NOTHING BUT HURT THE PAYING CUSTOMER AND DISCOURAGE FUTURE AND PRESENT SUPPORT OF THEIR GAMES.
As usual when the talk of filesharing gets brought up we all got distracted by the filesharing equals teh evil/theft or filesharing does not equal theft/teh evil arguments.
Also it was not until after mr gaider injected himself into the discussion (saying you were a thief if you got the p2p version of the game) nobody in the first few post had said for example "the bioware devs suck and i will now get this game via filesharing and every other future bioware game" etc , these sentiments were expressed only after that post maybe if he hadn't posted his reply they would have still come out but he certainly like i said threw some gasoline on that issue with that post ,the original thought expressed was people were just pissed at the drm and the fact that we KNEW the crackers would crack it and the game would be up on the p2p networks, making you wonder why as a legit customer go through all this crap?

 

[elander_]

A year ago a thread like this would not be imaginable, the idiots would have got gang-raped by everybody else on the second page. Today it takes ten or fifteen pages of retards agreeing that piracy is cool before there is any backlash and the idiots are still the majority.

I don't think nobody was saying that piracy as a whole is acceptable. People who pirate games because they can are just thieves. People who borrow a game from a friend to have a taste of the game before they buy are also doing something illegal but you can't put all of them in the same bag. They aren't causing any damage to the games industry, on the contrary, if they decide to buy the game when otherwise they wouldn't for lack of info. Some people may get offended with this and some may see it only as a way to get the product info they feel entitled too. I don't see the big drama in this. There is no attempt to defending piracy. It's just something that most people do because they are interested in buying a game and want to be sure they won't be deceived.

There are many possibilities to avoid doing something illegal today that we didn't have a few years ago. For example if you wait a year or two for the game to be sold with a magazine. The game may be sold by one of those publishers like SoldOut. With the quality of todays games this is not a problem either.

Finally you are pirating games when you download them from abandonware sites unless it is clearly stated on their site the game is freeware. In particular if you live in the USA where the laws on this subject are retarded. I would like to see how much guys here who have a rigid position in relation to the law who never downloaded an abandonware game.

I feel sorry for David Gaider, he's been insulted quite a lot before but this thread, mobbed by a horde of fucking kids (or adults with the mental age of 13 year olds), is completely unbelievable.

Let's all make a we love Dgaider thread.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I know. but if you read their comments you will notice things like "honest Gaider came to this thread and immediately got flamed by people with minds of 13 year old kids". Gaider successfully derailed this thread into another piracy discussion from rails with not very pleasant questions to him and the criticising of Bioware (which of course also not pleasant to him) - sure he got flamed.

Really? Failed your reading comprehension roll?

First post: "Several groups have already found a way to bypass the ME activation thingie, even if they still do not have a full crack available. It is expected that before then there is going to be a full crack available in a free port near you. Great job, guys! You are amazing!"

Not a word about honest customers suffering, as you can see. It's a pure "yay! we can play the game for free now!" post.

Then someone suggests that now people can buy the game and play it without problems. Futile Rhetoric says that buying Bio games is rewarding stupidity fueled by greed. That's when David Gaider shows up and comments on piracy and Futile's statement.

Fueled by Futile and Sage's posts things quickly turn to shit and the thread turns into a "how awesome piracy is and why it is my moral duty to pirate game for the betterment of mankind" discussion, occasionally interrupted by feces throwing (at Gaider) : "you are a greedy little piggy", "well fuck you. Cry all you want, you're entitled to no more sympathy than any other professional fraud" and "imagine a fatty like dgaider giving up food for playing DIGTAL pc-games.".

Then David shows up again and says:

"Well, I wasn't commenting on the DRM itself -- I certainly feel for anyone who buys their game and can't play it, that's a sucky situation to be in. It's a bad situation all around. Whether or not EA chooses to change their position, letting them know how you feel (especially if you're a customer) can only help them make an informed decision.

I only meant to comment on those people who feel they have the right to play a game they haven't paid for, and now hold up DRM as justification-- as if "sticking it" to us greedy types makes them somehow heroic instead of greedy types themselves. Do what you think you must, but at least own up to it. It doesn't make it right, but at least it's not pathetic."

What else do you fucking morons need? He said that he regrets that people who bought the game couldn't play it and states "WHETHER OR NOT EA CHOOSES TO CHANGE THEIR POSITION....". Now, I thought it was perfectly clear who is responsible for the fuck up, but apparently there is a lot of dumb people here, so Dave clearly states who is responsible.

But it's too late for intelligent debates, so more feces are thrown:

"Oh, and Mr. Fucking Fatso Gaider... fuck you and your company."

I'm really happy that I'm not an admin anymore. There would have been a lot of dumbfucks and quite a few bans after this thread. This thread is a fucking disgrace.

 

[Warden]

Lets all light a candle and cry for poor poor Bioware and their poor employees (including the flaming goblin). Shall we? *group hug*

 

[Vault Dweller]

I don't think nobody was saying that piracy as a whole is acceptable.

Pirates = Moral heroes of the Cyber-Seas, fighting for those who can't defend themselves.
...
I like the things I like and I will attempt to feel my wants whenever I can. When fulfilling my wants means infringing other people's enjoyment of their lives however, I do not go further than my particular code of ethics will allow. Luckily, copying has no effect on other people's lives, so my conscience is clear.
...
Art, games, and a whole lot of other crap thrived far before there was even the concept of Intellectual Property. It is just greed, pure and simple - It is not "we want to make a living and be able to continue with our craft", it is "We want all we can get our dirty paws on."

And the pirates say "Fuck you." Good for them.
...
Etc

 

[Annonchinil]

But the idea that the pirates would not have bought the game anyway? I am not sure what to say, have you never bought a game, or never pirated one? I bet the answer to both of those questions will be no, most people probably pirated atleast one game, and most people probably also bought one. I think the rarity would be a person who owns every game that is legitimate or one that plays and one that never bought a single one.

Bright day
I think the idea is that a pirate does not buy a concrete game for a certain price. Instead of spending 60 dollars on SupraShooter, he pirates it. Maybe he would buy Suprashooter for 10 dollars, maybe not. Maybe he would be willing to spend 60 bucks on new DungeonHack. But he is not going to buy your game, at price you want, at time you want.

Alas, I am not aware of any actual research into buying habits of pirates. Even a research on whetever there are any buyings made by a pirate. Do all pirates buy less games, then non-pirates? What makes pirate to buy a game?

HAve you never bought or pyrated a game?

 

[Annonchinil]

For VD: Giving details about your personal life on the internet is about as believable as stating that my girlfriend is Jessica Alba. The point is you have never released a game and it’s not even your full time job.

Have I ever claimed otherwise? Have I ever used my in-development game to dismiss someone's opinion - " if you were a gaem developar like me you'd understand..."?

Your opinion about how piracy affects you is worth about as much as mine. Even fucking Brad Wardell doesn’t like it and I am sure most developers don’t either.

Twilight fucking zone. Did I say that my opinion is worth more? Did I say that I like it? I've argued all day against justifications of piracy, so where is the logic?

I accept piracy as a part of the program, but that's a different matter. Games will be pirated. That's the reality. Not accepting this reality would be kinda stupid.

Edit: relevant article:
http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1688

My apologies after reading so many pages I guess I assumed you stated something that you did not.

 

[DefJam101]

It's too bad that the few decent posts in this thread have been completely ignored. That one about strategies to counter piracy other than DRM was a good post; not given a passing glance by anyone. Instead we just rant off about communism and capitalism, free market and a bunch of moral philosophical bullshit.

---bandwagon time!---



Personal question to someone who cares enough to research all this stuff:

Does the system even matter? Generally speaking, I usually see communism & socialism being bashed by capitalists because they aren't 'real' enough; that they don't anticipate humanity being fucking assholes.

Communism and socialism seem to be based around the 'ideal' humanity, in which people care as much about other people than they do themselves. The systems can't really work unless people are good and respectful people with integrity. Of course, in today's world, this is not the case. This will probably never be the case. Capitalism seems to anticipate the opposite, that since people are innately fucking assholes, we should allow everyone to do what they want in hopes that some good people will come out on top, rather than let the evil people take over.

One of them is idealistic, and one of them is realistic (generally speaking). How exactly is one better than the other? One of them strives to help and better humanity while the other tries to make the best of the current situation. Of course, communism will probably never be executed properly, since people tend to be assholes. Capitalism will never result in an 'uber world' because it doesn't try to; it is just making the best of an otherwise bad situation.

---/bandwagon---

Of course, generally speaking is bad. Especially when I don't know shit about this stuff.

Back to the basics; does the system matter? Communism depends on people being good and respectful to each other. This begs the question, "If everyone is already nice and respectful to each other, why is it necessary to have a system in place which forces them to do that?" If people were nice to each other, no one was greedy, and no one valued their material possessions so much.. you'd end up with a society that is optimal. The system doesn't really matter, the people do.

 

[MetalCraze]

First post: "Several groups have already found a way to bypass the ME activation thingie, even if they still do not have a full crack available. It is expected that before then there is going to be a full crack available in a free port near you. Great job, guys! You are amazing!"

Not a word about honest customers suffering, as you can see. It's a pure "yay! we can play the game for free now!" post.

I'm surprised your sarcasm detector failed so much here.
btw "Great job, guys! You are amazing!" is a remark about Bioware, not about crackers.
the following comments are all about failed DRM protection despite it's being hyped so much as a good thing when it turned out to be a bad thing for legit customers.

Futile Rhetoric says that buying Bio games is rewarding stupidity fueled by greed. That's when David Gaider shows up and comments on piracy and Futile's statement.

wrong. Futile didn't say anything about piracy. he simply suggested that you must not buy the game thus supporting further spreading of this DRM. he didn't say yay let's go torrent this shit.
and then Gaider shows up and says totally unrelated bs.
"If thinking that our company is greedy for wanting some money in return for you playing a game that cost us a great deal to make... hey, whatever helps you sleep at night."
the critics was about Bioware wanting money so much that they are fucked up legit customers with DRM. he basically says "so what? stfu"
and then goes the actual derailing:
"Me, I wouldn't want to be a thief. But maybe that's just me."
now please point me at a post before this comment where somebody said that you must be a thief, torrent the game or something.
if you read past that you will note that people saying that he misses the point and pointing that they are talking about DRM actually probably resulting in a loss of sales rather then increasing them. not a single comment about "go and torrent this shit"

but then Gaider makes a comeback spewing a little more totally unrelated bs. again.
""Well, I wasn't commenting on the DRM itself -- I certainly feel for anyone who buys their game and can't play it, that's a sucky situation to be in. It's a bad situation all around. Whether or not EA chooses to change their position, letting them know how you feel (especially if you're a customer) can only help them make an informed decision. "
we were talking only about Bioware's DRM in this thread. how the fuck could he comment on something that wasn't there? he just smelled something burning and tried to get away with a "I'm sorry guys and it's not our fault - it's a bad EA"-innocent sheep bs. considering that just a week ago it was Bioware who cried on every corner how they will protect their product, not EA. people pointed it out to him afterwards. but as you've pointed out he spewed even more bs:
"I only meant to comment on those people who feel they have the right to play a game they haven't paid for, and now hold up DRM as justification-- as if "sticking it" to us greedy types makes them somehow heroic instead of greedy types themselves. Do what you think you must, but at least own up to it. It doesn't make it right, but at least it's not pathetic"
on those people who feel... wait what? where did he find such people in this thread? the most radical comments were "I won't buy the game"/"I will wait till it will hit the bargain bin" but no "I will torrent this shit now". basically we were saying one thing and he was throwing strawman at us which were totally unrelated to this topic. and then he just managed to flip the topic into "guys against me are simply looking for a reason to torrent ME bawwww" which of course trolled and angried many people here + invited bioware defenders into this thread accusing us of something that was not there.

VD please read carefully each post next time instead of just playing a codex paladin protecting the innocent Bioware devs oppressed by evil EA they've sold their souls voluntarily to.

 

[Xi]

Wow, I think Skyway takes the crown jewel of dumbfuckery in this one. Have you even been listening to yourself before you type that shit? Your argument is a dangling thread which is about to break.

 

[MetalCraze]

*sigh* read at least my comments then from the 1st page. personally I wasn't talking about piracy at all but only about DRM. I also don't see any people protecting piracy at the first page or saying that we must torrent ME.
please point me to a comment from first pages that is actually protecting piracy or suggesting to torrent ME - or at people that wrote that - at which Gaider was pointing. I can't see them. only lots of cynicism about failing of much hyped DRM.

 

[DefJam101]

Wow, I think Skyway takes the crown jewel of dumbfuckery in this one. Have you even been listening to yourself before you type that shit? Your argument is a dangling thread which is about to break.

Stop it, please.

'Siding' with VD doesn't give you an excuse to act like the 13 year-old uber pirates you criticize. The same goes for anyone else in this thread. If you're not going to say anything when you respond then don't bother responding, it'll be worse for everyone.

 

[Warden]

Ok..
so here's a resume:

The goblin developer comes and totally misses the point (as always, if I might add) and gets rolled over and turns out as a complete idiot so he disappears.. and then another new-born newbie developer comes defending the branch and prolongs the topic by 20 pages and turns out as a complete idiot as well - but he insists.
Sad story indeed. A great RPG could be based on this epic story.. Shall I suggest the name? Decadence of Dragon Age.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Hell has no bitterness like a fanboy scorned.

@ skyway: reread my post.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Solution:

Buy the game. Download the cracked .exe if the legitimate one doesn't work.

Not so hard.

 

[RK47]

it was never about that anymore, the derailment commences calling ppl who criticize the DRM as pirates. The natural fence sitter reaction would be simple: 'Fuck me? Fuck you too'.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Well the first few pages aren't really "the DRM sucks" so much as "Take that, Bioware, people can play your game for free haha suck it."

 

[Foamhead]

Seems the Codex has hit a new low. Fuckin' thieving scumbags actually having the nerve to try to place guilt on honest, law-abiding devs in order to justify their crimes. I hope you all rot in hell (with the exception of those who still have a semblance of decency and common sense in them).

Wouldn't surprise me if Dragon Age is announced to become a mutliplatform title.

This is exactly right.

This shows the kind of change the Codex has gone through in two years. A year ago a thread like this would not be imaginable, the idiots would have got gang-raped by everybody else on the second page. Today it takes ten or fifteen pages of retards agreeing that piracy is cool before there is any backlash and the idiots are still the majority.

I feel sorry for David Gaider, he's been insulted quite a lot before but this thread, mobbed by a horde of fucking kids (or adults with the mental age of 13 year olds), is completely unbelievable.

Well that's what happens when new people are treated like dog shit just because people here don't like their taste in RPGs. Anyone with self respect and intelligent things to say decide quite rightly that the codex "acid test" isn't worth passing and go on their merry way. All you have left are cranky, arrogant elitist fuckknobs who never have anything new to talk about other then how super wonderful Ultima and Fallout were and the nonstop back and forth mental masturbation between users.

Piracy is illegal period and there are no excuses. I agree with David G. that it is far preferable for users who torrent games to just admit they are a fucking pirate and leave it at that. Frankly he is far too civilized to users considering the amount of abuse he puts up with by some codexers who think they are super-geniuses just because they interface with games via keyboard instead of a joypad.

A website gets the kind of users it deserves.

 

[Warden]

Internet forums are pointless as a whole.. and this one is no exception. It just serves as a vent I guess. Well, and for advices you can get when you can't start MotB without getting killed and stuff..

Hmm, yes, why would you discuss with complete strangers from the other side of the World if you have the option to discuss with people who actually matter in your life?
(Oh yes, apart from the obvious reason to show them you're right. )

 

[kris]

Buuuaaaahhhh!!!

Geez, will you never get over it. It ain't healthy

 

[analt]

Fapping in the toilet?

Call it what it really is: stealing from the prostitutes you would otherwise have hired.

 

[dagorkan]

Seems the Codex has hit a new low. Fuckin' thieving scumbags actually having the nerve to try to place guilt on honest, law-abiding devs in order to justify their crimes. I hope you all rot in hell (with the exception of those who still have a semblance of decency and common sense in them).

Wouldn't surprise me if Dragon Age is announced to become a mutliplatform title.

This is exactly right.

This shows the kind of change the Codex has gone through in two years. A year ago a thread like this would not be imaginable, the idiots would have got gang-raped by everybody else on the second page. Today it takes ten or fifteen pages of retards agreeing that piracy is cool before there is any backlash and the idiots are still the majority.

I feel sorry for David Gaider, he's been insulted quite a lot before but this thread, mobbed by a horde of fucking kids (or adults with the mental age of 13 year olds), is completely unbelievable.

Well that's what happens when new people are treated like dog shit just because people here don't like their taste in RPGs. Anyone with self respect and intelligent things to say decide quite rightly that the codex "acid test" isn't worth passing and go on their merry way. All you have left are cranky, arrogant elitist fuckknobs who never have anything new to talk about

So instead we have people who are never given the test, brag about piracy and abuse developers for no reason

other then how super wonderful Ultima and Fallout were and the nonstop back and forth mental masturbation between users.

Piracy is illegal period and there are no excuses. I agree with David G. that it is far preferable for users who torrent games to just admit they are a fucking pirate and leave it at that. Frankly he is far too civilized to users considering the amount of abuse he puts up with by some codexers who think they are super-geniuses just because they interface with games via keyboard instead of a joypad.

A website gets the kind of users it deserves.

Don't completely disagree with you and I don't like the self-righteous indignation either but you have to admit this thread is a disgrace.

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Well that's what happens when new people are treated like dog shit just because people here don't like their taste in RPGs. Anyone with self respect and intelligent things to say decide quite rightly that the codex "acid test" isn't worth passing and go on their merry way. All you have left are cranky, arrogant elitist fuckknobs who never have anything new to talk about other then how super wonderful Ultima and Fallout were and the nonstop back and forth mental masturbation betweenusers.

Vendetta of some sort? I used the magic of the "Search for all posts by Username" function and found some interesting stuff.

I'd keep quiet too if I knew the second I announced real time, first person perspective or anything else the Fallout fanboys will hate that they would throw us down and gang rape us until we didn't have assholes anymore. I don't know why your company bought the rights but God be with you brother.

That's your first post. That's definitely going to get you friends.

People take video games way too seriously. I'm going to really freak people out now
I liked Baldurs Gate 2, I think it was better then Fallout. I liked all the jokes and pop culture references in Fallout 2. I liked KotOR and it's sequel to a lesser degree.
Holy shit i'm like the antichrist of PC elitest snobs and Fallout geeks everywhere.

There's another one with another really crappy straw-man type of thing.

Check out my equally qualifiable reply:

No...you do!

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha kneel before me puny mortals.

What a great comeback! Such wit and brilliant logic! I can't see why you didn't win the whole forum over.

Yeah...you reap what you sow. And the "acid test"....you got some people asking you to back up your baseless claims. How horrible of them. They should be punished, huh?

Piracy is illegal period and there are no excuses.

Well gee....I'm pretty sure we're all certain it's illegal. I think the question was whether or not that law has any power (which it doesn't) or whether it is okay to break that law (where there is a huge shitstorm from both sides).

I agree with David G. that it is far preferable for users who torrent games to just admit they are a fucking pirate and leave it at that.

I don't think anyone has a problem admitting it, at least going by this thread. I think generally the pirates don't feel like being spit on as thieves, murderers, and rapists are. If your new "friend" hadn't brought in the lovely "piracy=theft" false equivocation then I think the pirates wouldn't need to fell the need to justify themselves and the anti-pirates wouldn't have needed to come out deontological cannons a-blazin'. I think everyone here was generally pretty happy to let things be until someone came and started things up. Pirates were comfortable with who they were, and everyone else was comfortable accepting the pirates for who they were without pages of "This is why you are evil!".

Then "somebody" just had to drop the "piracy=theft" line which sparked this whole mess. I'm not a huge fan of piracy myself. Sure, it helps me find games that aren't for sale anywhere anymore (aka abondonware) and that's nice. But I feel a little unhappy when I paid for, say, Troika's games while "everyone else" pirated them and they went out of business. I felt like my money was wasted. The company didn't last, and I could have gotten the games for free like "everyone else" with the same exact consequences. I still don't pirate games that aren't abandonware though mostly for he reason that I won't have a constant stream of games to enable me to slack off and also because the companies I do buy from, are generally smaller companies I give a damn about and know my money will go somewhere. But I don't really understand why some people pop a stiffy from riding their high horse into places and using terrible logic and thinking that being on the slightly more moral side makes everything statement magically brilliant.

Frankly he is far too civilized

Yeah, well the last posts of seen of him are sarcastic one-liners and stuff designed to drum up stuff. I'm sure he's got a good reason...

 

[elander_]

Pirates = Moral heroes of the Cyber-Seas, fighting for those who can't defend themselves.

Who is trying to be an hero? Completely ignore everything i said.

I like the things I like and I will attempt to feel my wants whenever I can. When fulfilling my wants means infringing other people's enjoyment of their lives however, I do not go further than my particular code of ethics will allow. Luckily, copying has no effect on other people's lives, so my conscience is clear.

I think people enjoyment will be much greater if i actually buy their games instead of just ignore their stupid practices of not releasing a demo. And yes i do buy their games and don't waste money on pirated CDs. Usually i borrow a copy from a friend and try it which makes me a lousy greedy thief according to you.

Luckily, copying has no effect on other people's lives, so my conscience is clear.

Copying has an effect on other people lives, it depends on the reasons you do it and how you do it.

Art, games, and a whole lot of other crap thrived far before there was even the concept of Intellectual Property. It is just greed, pure and simple - It is not "we want to make a living and be able to continue with our craft", it is "We want all we can get our dirty paws on.

If you say so VD. There's no point of trying to convince you otherwise when you already made your own opinion and put everyone on the same bag. Say did you ever downloaded an abandonware copy? Then that means you don't care about anyone and you do it only for grid.

Then David shows up again and says:

"Well, I wasn't commenting on the DRM itself -- I certainly feel for anyone who buys their game and can't play it, that's a sucky situation to be in. It's a bad situation all around. Whether or not EA chooses to change their position, letting them know how you feel (especially if you're a customer) can only help them make an informed decision.

I only meant to comment on those people who feel they have the right to play a game they haven't paid for, and now hold up DRM as justification-- as if "sticking it" to us greedy types makes them somehow heroic instead of greedy types themselves. Do what you think you must, but at least own up to it. It doesn't make it right, but at least it's not pathetic."

Sorry VD but you are blowing things a bit out of proportion here. Some people can't play their games because of the DRM and they decided to get a pirated game to play a game they already own, instead of waiting for EA to fix their crap. You can't even accuse them of piracy because they have paid for the game already. Dgaider was being a little silly in accusing them of piracy.

I brought a game from SoldOut once and then downloaded a patch to be able to play it and the game didn't recognized the CD anymore so i couldn't play my own game anymore because someone screwed up and nobody would fix anything. Solution, i downloaded a crack and played my own game. Only an idiot would accuse me or the guys who got a crack to play the games they paid for of piracy. You can't even bring the to a court of law because you have no grounds on to base any accusation on them.

 

[analt]

How does Cleve feel about piracy?

He doesn't have to worry about it, remember? He has the fool-proof anti-piracy system

No game?