Gothic II: NotR - requesting build advice

[CreamyBlood]

Yeah that's how I played it for the most part. I did pick up some tips on some forums on how to get a head start and basic understanding of the skills and stuff but part of the fun is freaking out and getting your ass kicked and coming back later. Plus all of the wonderful exploration. Plus everything else.

 

[bloodlover]

I finished NOTR last night and obviously kept the sword. I derped around to kill some tougher enemies that I could not before doing the addon; shadowbeasts are so easy now, though I still have to take care with orcs.

Militia and heavy militia armors look like shit but at least they made a big difference in combat. Chapter 2 here I come!

 

[T. Reich]

Personally, I never kept the sword.
Sure, it's the best melee weapon in the game by far, but I always LARPed as the kind of person who's not going to deal with Beliar.
Also, shadowbeasts are easy as-is, really. They have a simple, fairly predictable and easily interruptable attack pattern. And they are completely harmless if you manage to back them into a wall (which is pretty easy considering that most shadowbeasts are sleeping in small caves).

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Sure, it's the best melee weapon in the game by far, but I always LARPed as the kind of person who's not going to deal with Beliar.

Makes sense to keep it until Irdorath at least. But yeah, Dragon slicer etc etc. Looks fucking kickass though.

 

[Sjukob]

shadowbeasts are so easy now

 

[T. Reich]

shadowbeasts are so easy now

Yeah, I learned how to ezmode shdowbeasts from this vid. It's obviously much easier with a good 1h on expert/master than unarmed thanks to the fact that you can swing much faster.

 

[Jarmaro]

And they are completely harmless if you manage to back them into a wall (which is pretty easy considering that most shadowbeasts are sleeping in small caves).

Jesus Christ, I just got PTSD flashbacks from Gothic 1, people which played know that taking step back by monster was considered a block by the game, so if you tried to kill Shadowbeast, especially one you had to kill in Monastery that you had to visit beceause of main plot, you would end up in small cave with Shadowbeast that would just constantly stepping back until it stayed under the wall, and no matter how many times would you hit it with no matter what weapon you used, monster AI would just spam step back, which was making it immortal.
Such a terrible experience. Probably the worst in the entire game.

 

[T. Reich]

I don't really remember that. Probably because I preferred to take down shadowbeasts with ranged weapons because their arrow resistance was low (as it is for all the animals that can be skinned).
BUT I distinctly remember G1 bloodflies being super annoying to kill due to their strafing being faster than your own turn speed.
And, of course, the G1+G2 lizards that DO have the "backstep = block" mechanic.

 

[bloodlover]

Mhm... I am beginning to think that I screwed myself by going with 1h swords. I found Orc Slayer and Dragon Slicer and the difference in dmg is so big! I noticed early in the game that two handed weapons do more damage but (I presumed) swing slower so I figured I'd go for the lower but faster weapons; however I was not expecting this big of a difference. I mean I am doing fine so far, seekers melt like butter but still...

Oh and a question: combat or magic runes? One of the dudes in the city offered to teach me but I could not decide what to pick (I could not pick anything at the time anyway).

 

[T. Reich]

While Orc slayer is the best "vanilla" (=the non-faction-related) 1h, it's not the best 1h in the game, by far.
Dragon slicer is one of the best 2h weapons in the game; there is a worse 2h axe with slightly better damage, and there is the best forged 2h sword (for mercs only, IIRC) that does slightly less damage but is much better in other ways.

In the end, it doesn't really matter because if your focus is melee, you should have a shit ton of strength, and that way the damage difference between 1h and 2h becomes marginal.
Besides that, weren't you using the Beliar's Claw? It shits on any other melee weapon in the game because its special effect a) ignores armor, and b) has area of effect.

Regarding magic - read the manual and decide if you like the runes you're getting offered. Yeah, I know - reading the game manual in 2k17? Pffft!

P.S.: http://mondgesaenge.de/G2ADB/EN/

 

[Sjukob]

Mhm... I am beginning to think that I screwed myself by going with 1h swords.

Two handed weapons are too sluggish in comparison to one handers . For example the jump back has a much longer recovery time during which you can't attack and it makes certain fights rather annoying , you can't spam enemies to death with fast attacks as you are able to do it with one handers ( for example if you flank an orc during his running attack he is basically dead , because you can perform something like 8-10 attacks before he can face you again , not possible with two handed weapons ) . Also the range advantage doesn't matter mostly , since you have to let humanoid opponents to get in range and execute their attack so they open themselves otherwise they'll block all of your attacks , and the ability to stun lock beasts with one hander ( not possible with two hander ) far outweights the range advantage .

Oh and two handers have shit animations until 60% , while one handers become good at 30% . So no , you don't realise how good you have it unless you tried playing with two handed weapons , playing two handed melee in Gothic 2 is actually gimping yourself .

P.S. Claw of Beliar makes it even more extreme , as more attacks means more procs , so it might even outdamage it's two handed counterpart .
P.P.S. Also this makes playing two handers an even more miserable experience .

In the end, it doesn't really matter because if your focus is melee, you should have a shit ton of strength, and that way the damage difference between 1h and 2h becomes marginal

 

[Jarmaro]

While Orc slayer is the best "vanilla" (=the non-faction-related) 1h, it's not the best 1h in the game, by far.
Dragon slicer is one of the best 2h weapons in the game; there is a worse 2h axe with slightly better damage, and there is the best forged 2h sword (for mercs only, IIRC) that does slightly less damage but is much better in other ways.

Doesn't he play NotR? Then Axe would be the best weapon (200 dmg, 170 strength, big magic weapon for drakes was 190 dmg and 150 strength I think). Which is pretty retarded and I dunno why would they change it from vanilla Gorhic 2 that some random axe is the best weapon in the game, so having best weapon for Dragon hunter/Knight is pointless.

Besides that, weren't you using the Beliar's Claw? It shits on any other melee weapon in the game because its special effect a) ignores armor, and b) has area of effect.

Well, then he definitely plays NotR.

Oh and a question: combat or magic runes?

Paladins runes are pretty much addon to combat, nothing important if you ask me, never cared about that beceause it would take my precious LP and give pretty much only healing.
Better to focus on combat.

swing slower so I figured I'd go for the lower but faster weapons; however I was not expecting this big of a difference. I mean I am doing fine so far, seekers melt like butter but still...

I assume you've just enetered Chapter 3, so if you are using Orc Slayer it means you are 75%~ into character progress. I used to to always take 2h, but once I tried 1H I have never gone back to 2H. It feels more fluid and faster, in theory 2H should have more range, but it isn't much benefit.

Also, did you remember about upgrading Beliar Claw every few levels? I dunno what % cap for critical was, but somethign around 50%.

 

[Revenant]

*sHe

 

[bloodlover]

Fml it costs LP to learn Holy Arrow... Is anything free in this game? I was thinking of getting it as a range attack so I can pick one mob from a pack with it but I might stick with the crossbow if it's the case. Though that dmg sure is sweet.

 

[Jarmaro]

Fml it costs LP to learn Holy Arrow... Is anything free in this game? I was thinking of getting it as a range attack so I can pick one mob from a pack with it but I might stick with the crossbow if it's the case. Though that dmg sure is sweet.

Frankly you can go and learn some stuff, in the end in last chapter I was always +50-60 LP and had nothing to do with it, so if you want be 100% progressed before final you sure will, no matter what. Although magic for paladin always seemed useless for me.

 

[Abhay]

Magic isn't quite useless though. By using certain spells in fight mode (melee combat), you can have great fun in the game. Its been a long time since I last played G2, but there are certain spells and tricks ( not cheating per se; rather various approaches using the magic melee combo ) that can help to add more variety ( depending upon your creative thinking skills ) to a rather monotonous swinging and interrupting enemy attack patterns approach.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Is anything free in this game?

The ass-kicking you get from pissing off the citizenry when you can barely swing a sword.

 

[Haplo]

I vaguely remember the Paladin runes being very potent and useful in final Act(s).

I have always used a two-hander. I will admit it wasn't easy, despite the damage being good (played vanilla G2 and got the Dragon Slicer very early). But very tactical. Need to block enemies and counter (or keep beasts at range). Personally I like this approach way more then the idea I'd be spamming light one-handed attacks. Spamming attacks... just doesn't seem appropriate in Gothic for me.

 

[T. Reich]

I vaguely remember the Paladin runes being very potent and useful in final Act(s).

I have always used a two-hander. I will admit it wasn't easy, despite the damage being good (played vanilla G2 and got the Dragon Slicer very early). But very tactical. Need to block enemies and counter (or keep beasts at range). Personally I like this approach way more then the idea I'd be spamming light one-handed attacks. Spamming attacks... just doesn't seem appropriate in Gothic for me.

Paladin magic basically boils down to two spells - healing and damage to undead - that have 3 tiers of strength each.
Since the final acts feaure a good deal of strong undead, the paladin offensive spells come in handy.

Spamming attacks in Gothics is impossible anyway. Well, spamming as a way to victory, that is.
If you attempt non-stop attacks, most enemies will either perma-block you, or quickly move out of the way and reposition themselves for attack that will likely catch you off-guard if you keep swinging.
Not to mention that a lot of later fights involve more than one enemy attacking you, and spamming your own attacks leaves you open for multiple retaliatory strikes that will kill you off real quick.
Both 1h and 2h involve exactly the same tactics - you block and dodge the enemy attacks and wait for the opening when they can't block or evade, then you go a-swinging until they start blocking or die.
The difference is that with 1h you will be able to get more attacks in that window of opportunity, and with 2h your damage per hit (after armor) is higher.

 

[bloodlover]

So I guess I should take Harm Evil when I reach Act 5?

edit: I reached 94 STR after killing some orcs in VoM in Chapter 4. A tedious task but worth it. I liked the idea of the orcs surrounding the castle and having to sneak around without getting jumped on but when it comes to killing them, it's tedious as fuck in melee. I assume mages and archers have an easier time. Holy Arrow helps indeed but still...

edit nr 2: Time to finally start crafting elixirs

 

[T. Reich]

Regarding orks around the castle - you're not really supposed to kill them all.
I think you are supposed kill only some of them to make navigation around the castle easier.
Archers also have difficult time dealing with orks - well, easier than melee, but it involves a lot of kiting and obstacle abuse to get those shots in.
Mages (summoners) probably have it easier, but it's still tedious as fuck and will eat up a ton of mana pots.

The best "lifehack" with the sieging orks is that with potion of speed they can be kited in a large compact group. After that, a single scroll of fire rain (only 9 scrolls total in the game!) will kill off all non-elites, and each elite will be close to death.

 

[Haplo]

Well, sure, it took time. And had to kite/spread them apart a bit. But eventually slaughtering all of them felt good...

 

[bloodlover]

Real life came between me and the bubble I live in (it happens sometimes) but I finished the game in the end. It's definitely not perfect but overall a great game.

Good things that come to mind are exploration and atmosphere. Before, I thought of Morrowind as being the ultimate sandbox RPG but this game is something different. The world felt always alive and there was always something around the corner waiting to be discovered. Atmosphere was also great, from the guarded city, to the monastery and even the last chapter. NPCs tend to look the same but the surroundings always had a nice touch to them and it felt that every NPC belongs there. The day and night cycle was a nice touch, seeing taverns closed at night and people gathering at the local pub for a drink and a chat. I remember Beth's excitement about radiant AI when Oblivion came out but that can't hold a candle to Gothic 2.

Another thing worth mentioning was the reward you'd get for exploring. Looking in every tiny place, talking to everyone, helped with the immersion a lot and there was always some apple, some stone tablet, some gold to be found. Given how scarce these are in the beginning, you can imagine the wonder of finding a small bag with 50 gold in it or a potion.

Sadly there are some not so good parts in the game but the biggest one that comes to mind, is of course the combat and the controls.

I initially played with the G1 controls but they were frustrating as hell so I switched. Even so, nothing is fluid and I ended up cheesing many fights even after I had a high STR and weapon skills. The same tactic for killing a troll was used at low or high level. Dragons as well, just summon a demon and afk. I guess it's different for archers and mages but melee combat was kind of a mess.

 

[Sjukob]

Sadly there are some not so good parts in the game but the biggest one that comes to mind, is of course the combat and the controls.

Do you realise that gothic has one of the best (if not the best) combat mechanics for a realtime rpg ? Can you actually name a game that is on par with it aside from g3 and risen series , that tried to copy and improve those ? Oh dear and the neverending dilemma about the controls ...

I initially played with the G1 controls but they were frustrating as hell so I switched

At least you figured that out , but still answer me , what's so hard about pressing left mouse button for attacking/interacting
right mouse button for blocking and two additional buttons for side attacks (like q and e for example ) ? There are even no menus you have to navigate except for the inventory and it's easy as shit , so what is your problem with the controls ?!

Even so, nothing is fluid and I ended up cheesing many fights even after I had a high STR and weapon skills. The same tactic for killing a troll was used at low or high level. Dragons as well, just summon a demon and afk. I guess it's different for archers and mages but melee combat was kind of a mess.

This is a problem of your skills , everything in this game is absolutely killable in melee , in fact the game is centered around melee combat and ranged/magic are more of an afterthoght (you won't realise this unless you tried playing a mage) . Yes dragons can be quite tough , but they are supposed to be the strongest enemies in the game , so it's alright . But since you were playing for the first time I'll pass you on this , I can understand how not everything is clear for a newcomer .

Before, I thought of Morrowind as being the ultimate sandbox RPG but this game is something different.

Ah but you're a Morrowind player , now here is an example why no sane person takes them seriously

 

[bloodlover]

I actually killed everything in melee (well except dragons) but things got better midgame because I was using the Claw and not because my skills visibly made me a better fighter. Risen 1 improved the combat a lot and everything there was at least fluid. Can't talk about G3 since I haven't played it in melee.

The problem with the controls is that they are clunky in combat and getting stunlocked or surrounded usually means instant death. So whenever the player encounters a pack of enemies, he/she has to pull it one by one or else reload. I think that giving the player a chance to block attacks from animals would have made things much easier. It was cool to see the enemy warning you before attacking though.

One more thing I forgot to mention were the armors. I just loved them and the idea of having so few. They were such a big deal when I got them, in terms of defense but they were also some kind of milestone that I achieved.

Edit: Uh you're making me want to play Gothic 1 right now.