I think I have been conflating non-lethal runs (often enforced on Expert) with ghosting which I understand as no knockouts, though pretty sure T2 had some (most?) levels that imposed a cap on the amount of people you can KNOCK UP I mean out aha
But the end gameplay state encouraged by Gloomwood is different from that of either Thief or System Shock 2. Thief's peak gameplay is ghosting around without killing anyone.
In Gloomwood, on the other hand, you are incentivized to play in as completionistic way as possible, which includes killing every enemy on the map since there is no consequence to doing so beyond resources expended, they do not respawn, and that is the only way to completely render a level safe for optimal exploration and secret gathering. One could say that Gloomwood shares the same goal as Doom: kill all the dudes, find all the secret.
Thief's peak gameplay is briskly sneaking around while putting out lights and eliminating or distracting anyone who's meaning to be a problem so that you can progress expediently. And whenever you fumble up, instead of quickloading like some spineless taffer you treat the inevitable conga-line of guards to a flash bomb or gas mine, or better yet you pull out your sword and put em fencing mechanics to use, it's in the game for a reason and offers usability even on expert. "Ghosting" is self-imposed challenge malarkey. Playing like that effectively eliminates many aspects of the game and not to mention makes the gameplay far less proactive, it's less so peak gameplay and more so a way of showing off your mastery/autism. Besides, I don't think Garrett is the type to twiddle his thumbs and patiently wait for every unaware dunce to let him slip by, but what do I know, maybe he carries an arsenal and murders dudes in the intro cutscenes just as a joke.
That is to say, it's not really much different from how you're proposing Gloomwood is meaning to be played if you ask me. At a fundamental level, in both you try and scour your way through the level while eliminating/bypassing obstacles by way of stealth and/or resource expenditure so that you can progress (and engage in kleptomania) in peace. The thing is though that Gloomwood (as is) doesn't have the objective variety of Thief, nor enemy AI on par or a difficulty equivalent to expert that'd impose some sort of restrictions, and outside of the fishery the level design doesn't have much breadth or complexity. As a result going about shanking or capping everyone is comparatively trivial and there's no disincentives holding you back from doing it. Since backtracking is meaning to be an element to some extent there's gonna be all the more reason to not trouble yourself with enemies left walking around. They need to start throwing some sort of curveballs later on or it's gonna get old.
>'Quickloading bad'
>"Ghosting" is self-imposed challenge malarkey.
Damn, but go off, sis.
Seriously though, I also prefer situations in Thief when I roll with the punches and have to use a variety of available tools, but that doesn't mean that the game doesn't give you all the ability and encouragement you need to just reload (through the presence of a manual saves - you can tell me to be temperate with my saving habits all you want but I'd argue that is not consistent with how you see ghosting as the meme chevrons above hopefully demonstrate) and mentioning fencing is laughable when killing is so often prohibited on the Expert difficulty. TDS had more gameplay variety going on due to a much higher emphasis on supernatural threats, to be fair.
I don't think the AI is actually worse than the one in Thief. Their peripheral vision in particular is pretty good. The main problem is the tuning of their reactions - anything that puts them in the alert state causes a lengthy "leering in direction of perceived threat" animation to play which is just backstab bait, which is pretty broken since the canesword, unlike the blackjack, can one-shot enemies even in the alert state. Maybe that's even pretty close to how it was in Thief (it has been a while since I played) but I am just too used to the swift-yet-noticable reaction delay of guards in Deus Ex that I would argue would work perfectly well here. Without considering the unimplemented Blood Moon setting (which will apparently impose a further limitation on saves which I like very much,) the game's difficulty certainly falls short of Thief's Expert, but greatly exceeds that of, say, Dishonored IMO.
I do agree that Gloomwood is going to live or die on its ability to flesh out its gameplay by introducing new tools, enemies, and level design features/objectives that continuously necessitate experimentation. To that end I am cautiously optimistic. Recently read that there will be an additional tough enemy type (Corpse Duster) that spawns if you kill too many people in a level, so that's a step in the right direction.
Sort of tangential to the point, but here are the tools as they are now:
-Canesword with a weak basic attack that permits parrying and has a charged up stab attack that is an OHK to enemies caught unaware. So a combination of Sword and Blackjack in Thief terms.
-Two direct combat firearms that differ in efficiency and range:
--Revolver takes 2-3 shots to kill enemies and takes up 2 inventory squares, extra ammo stacks into another 2 squares per 10 bullets (allowing you to kill 5 huntsmen or 8 dogs at close-medium range for the investment of 4 inventory squares)
--Shotgun is more efficient being an OHK at a point blank to close range, but takes up 4 squares to carry and another 1 for extra ammo
-Suppressed Pistol that can swap between 2 types of bolts:
--Basic bolts do pitiful damage but allow you to take out light sources and activate interactive objects from afar
--Incendiary bolts are sort of like poison darts from Deus Ex on steroids, certain death to enemies who will also set others on fire if they run into them, at the risk of gaining attention if the enemy manages to run around long enough to alert others.
-Bear Traps, though I have not tested to see what they actually do but I would imagine that b
-Medicines for healing and food for restoring sanity (latter not yet implemented)
-Glass bottle throwables with a high distraction range that break on impact
So although the arsenal appears slim it actually roughly covers the gameplay roles of Sword, Blackjack, Health Potions, Mines, and the following arrows: Broadheads, Water, Fire, Gas, Noisemakers, plus bear in mind that the bear trap (ahaahahahahaah get it I said bear twice ahahahaha) and Undertaker's bolts have unique properties that add their on twist to the gameplay rather than merely replicating the Thief arsenal. A harpoon gun that fires rope arrows is promised as well. Hopefully more placable traps, such as proper mines, different throwables like flash bangs or oil pots, and consumables with effects beyond simple healing will be implemented as well - if it is any indication, there are key binds for 9 weapons.
But obviously all these tools will only be used to the fullest if the game continously ramps up its complexity as to encourage experimentation through its enemy and level design. Hence why my biggest concern is whether the game is able to consistently provide a good amount of challenge and variety as it continues to develop.
