Incline Games for gentlemen

[Morpheus Kitami]

The Myst series and some of Infocom's catalog sound like they would fit quite nicely. Myst in particular is very easy to pick up, but does a lot with itself.

 

[Fargus]

Skyrim is the ultimate game for non-gamers.

I thought you were being facetious, but people are actually agreeing with this. Maybe I should've phrased the OP differently. The recommendations are specifically for the kind of person who's smart enough to see that Skyrim is stupid and a waste of time, despite not being a gamer. But I guess people here can only see between "gamer" vs "non-gamer" or "hardcore" vs "casual", without admitting the idea of a more general "good taste" which overlaps between people with varying degrees of commitment to the hobby.

To be honest, I've sometimes thought what games to recommend to someone who's never played before and I really don't have slightest idea what would work.

Recommend what you like. Think about it like this: you can recommend someone a classic game that still holds well today and set them on a path of incline and also preserve the game a little from being forgotten.

 

[Ash]

Tomb Raider only seems hardcore in our day and age. How could it become so popular in 1996?

Pretty sure an absolute crapton bought it because the marketing was strong, 3D gaming was still quite fresh, and animated 3D women with big triangle tits was a new concept. I am quite confident most didn't even get past the first few levels. Yeah, everything was more hardcore back then, it wasn't anything wild at all, but statistics show that only 10-20% of people even complete any given game. And that's modern games which are as casual and easy to pick up as they come. TR is a massive filter with zero handholding, notable navigation challenge, tank controls to adapt to, and it is different from pretty much every other game out there.

I would recommend it to a prestigious gentlemen in training, but not in the first wave recommendations as the presentation is weak and the controls unintuitive - many struggle to grasp. Second wave maybe.

 

[Alter Sack]

Naturally the Rance series.

The pinnacle of gentleman games right up the codex alley.

Spoiler

Probably not too edgy, shocking, or gratuitous (GTA, Carmageddon, MK, that sort of thing).

It has tasteful rape.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Thief 1 and 2 and Deus Ex.

I don't think anyone would object to these. I think Thief would be easier to get into, unless you're really curious about the kind of game Deus Ex stands for.

Tomb Raider only seems hardcore in our day and age. How could it become so popular in 1996?

Pretty sure an absolute crapton bought it because the marketing was strong, 3D gaming was still quite fresh, and animated 3D women with big triangle tits was a new concept. I am quite confident most didn't even get past the first few levels. Yeah, everything was more hardcore back then, it wasn't anything wild at all, but statistics show that only 10-20% of people even complete any given game. And that's modern games which are as casual and easy to pick up as they come. TR is a massive filter with zero handholding, notable navigation challenge, tank controls to adapt to, and it is different from pretty much every other game out there.

I would recommend it to a prestigious gentlemen in training, but not as the first wave recommendations as the presentation is weak and the controls unintuitive. Second wave maybe.

You might be right. I think experience with modern games might prejudice people against playing a game like that to a much higher degree than if they had never played a game before. I also think it's easier to approach it as an adult, if you have the minimum of intelligence and an open mind. It's a game that tests your patience more than your skill. I would at least try to explain the concept of the game and why such controls are useful, to gauge interest. The things that make TR different from modern AAA games are the kind of things that make games as a medium interesting, so even if you don't fall in love with the game, you might still enjoy the concept as long as you have any interest at all in exploring the medium.

What would be your first recommendation for a 3D action-adventure type game?

Arcanum
Deus Ex
Jagged Alliance 2
Arx Fatalis
HoMM3

I can recommend more, but i'm lazy.

I think those are good, but I have doubts about Arcanum. The setting is a bit too meta(subversion of the traditional RPG setting), the gameplay is unbalanced and often frustrating(trash mobs in dungeons). Having completed and enjoyed Fallout would be a minimum requirement. Being an Arcanum player already puts you solidly in cRPG fan territory.

 

[Avonaeon]

Return of the Obra Dinn.

Unique, not too hard, but interesting mechanics and can be completed in only a few evenings.

 

[Fargus]

Arcanum
Deus Ex
Jagged Alliance 2
Arx Fatalis
HoMM3

I can recommend more, but i'm lazy.

I think those are good, but I have doubts about Arcanum. The setting is a bit too meta(subversion of the traditional RPG setting), the gameplay is unbalanced and often frustrating(trash mobs in dungeons). Having completed and enjoyed Fallout would be a minimum requirement. Being an Arcanum player already puts you solidly in cRPG fan territory.

I recommended it to an early teen who grew up on fnaf, team fortress and scp and he was able to handle Arcanum and enjoy it to the point that it's now one of his favorite games.

 

[luj1]

Caesar 3

 

[AwesomeButton]

Ultimate General: American Revolution: https://www.ug1775.com/
Hitmans post-2016. Fun and easy games.
Battle Brothers. Not easy but fun, well balanced and lightweight.

 

[Lucumo]

Rename the thread to "Games for casual gamers". Actual gentlemen would play Hearts of Iron II and such while smoking their pipe.

Why play Hearts of Iron instead of chess or another easier to pick up game that has more depth? And why would you recommend it to someone who's not a gamer(the purpose of the thread)?

Kriegsspiele are by definition games for gentlemen. No need to be a "gamer".

Would such a person be satisfied with Hearts of Iron, instead of going for something like Operational Art of War? Tbh, I've only played Hearts of Iron III, which didn't interest me very much. The only Paradox game I really liked was Victoria 2, but I wouldn't recommend it for someone who's not specifically into that kind of game. That could probably have been one of the aspects mentioned in the OP, to be somewhat "non-specific", although that's very hard to define.

It's easy to get into and has depth. And one can always progress from there. After all, it's not an expensive game at all. Also, every gentleman would call at least a small library his own and I'm sure there are at least one or two books about a major war in there. Strategy and tactics are the thinking man's pastime.
(Can't comment on Hearts of Iron III, as I haven't played it and IV is meh.)

 

[Ash]

What would be your first recommendation for a 3D action-adventure type game?

Games some might not consider "prestigious" as they don't present an intellectual tone or story, but are fairly simple to pick up and play + nail gameplay fundamentals. Maybe Doom, Half-Life, Resident Evil 4, Dying Light in the first wave of recommendations. Establish fundamental 3D action gaming awesomeness and take it from there. Get more nuanced (and not necessarily better, just less accessible perhaps) with Tomb Raider, System Shock 2, Silent Hill, Dark Souls in the second wave.

Disregarding 3D action-adventure though, I would also throw in a "relics" wave sometime early once the addiction is starting to set in including Mario Bros 3 (1989), Final Fantasy 5 (1992), Ultima Underworld (1992), X-COM (1994), and maybe one arcade game, Ghouls & Ghosts (1988) or some shit. You have to appreciate and understand the roots, and these are some of the very best of those with plenty mental stimulation (via gameplay) for a monocled gentleman. Also UW's controls will absolutely punish him and increase his tolerance for anything easier to grasp but unintuitive, like Tomb Raider!

So yeah, I don't buy that storyfag shit or intellectual tone if the gameplay doesn't test you. Maybe throw in one adventure game, the story and tone can be mature and intelligent, but the gameplay should be prestigious too, that's the entire point of the medium. Would rather recommend an RPG in instead, screw the time investment factor that's a lame qualifier.

 

[Baron Tahn]

Outer Wilds.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Gentlemans game is something like Grim Fandango

Indeed.

 

[Andnjord]

Rename the thread to "Games for casual gamers". Actual gentlemen would play Hearts of Iron II and such while smoking their pipe.

You misspelled Gary Grigsby’s War in the East.

 

[HappyDaddyWow!]

If by gentlemen you mean people who aren't gamers but want a game that's rich in artistic expression while not being too mechanically complex, probably Cosmology of Kyoto.

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

What would be your first recommendation for a 3D action-adventure type game?

Games some might not consider "prestigious" as they don't present an intellectual tone or story, but are fairly simple to pick up and play + nail gameplay fundamentals. Maybe Doom, Half-Life, Resident Evil 4, Dying Light in the first wave of recommendations. Establish fundamental 3D action gaming awesomeness and take it from there. Get more nuanced (and not necessarily better, just less accessible perhaps) with Tomb Raider, System Shock 2, Silent Hill, Dark Souls in the second wave.

Disregarding 3D action-adventure though, I would also throw in a "relics" wave sometime early once the addiction is starting to set in including Mario Bros 3 (1989), Final Fantasy 5 (1992), Ultima Underworld (1992), X-COM (1994), and maybe one arcade game, Ghouls & Ghosts (1988) or some shit. You have to appreciate and understand the roots, and these are some of the very best of those with plenty mental stimulation (via gameplay) for a monocled gentleman. Also UW's controls will absolutely punish him and increase his tolerance for anything easier to grasp but unintuitive, like Tomb Raider!

So yeah, I don't buy that storyfag shit or intellectual tone if the gameplay doesn't test you. Maybe throw in one adventure game, the story and tone can be mature and intelligent, but the gameplay should be prestigious too, that's the entire point of the medium. Would rather recommend an RPG in instead, screw the time investment factor that's a lame qualifier.

I didn't mention FPS as I assumed others would(not my thing). Those are quite different from TR, though.

I agree with the others in the second paragraph; not sure about G&G as I haven't played much of it and it was a long time ago.

About the time qualifier, it's simple. I'd hate to waste dozens of hours of someone's time for nothing. I'd be hesitant to recommend a 4 hour movie, much less a 40 hour game(many RPGs take even more time), unless I know it's right down their alley. I also find it unlikely that someone who's gone their whole lives without paying attention to games would suddenly jump into some epic RPG.

Those were only my suggestions, though. A feeble attempt to bring some kind order, so people wouldn't just recommend their favorite games.

 

[Ash]

I get it, and agree. The RPGs would come in steady supply on the second set of recommendations and beyond, once we have established the gentlemen has good taste and likes video games. As he should, because they're INCLINE. I just wouldn't bother at all with adventure or puzzle recommendations. I adore those elements in something greater (RPGs, e.g Arx Fatalis has some hardcore puzzling). A game that is puzzles alone isn't really playing to the medium's strengths, not to full potential anyway. I like to have to factor multiple elements of gameplay concurrently (navigation, positioning, resource management, combat etc etc), with maybe a puzzle here and there for variety's sake. The more freedom of expression the player has, the more immersive and atmospheric it potentially is too. The more invested in the entire concept. I think my belief here is also reflected by general consensus across the entire spectrum of gamer types - nobody considers a puzzle or adventure game top 5 GOATs of the industry, except maybe storyfaggots. There is RPG Codex - there is no Puzzle Codex. Well, there used to be niche communities. Dead now.

Once the esteemed fellow has beaten around ten monocled gems he should also be recommended some utter shit like Bioshock, Assassin's Creed, Mass Effect, GTAV (none of which he has to complete as that is torture), just to put things in perspective, develop understanding of good vs bad game design, and create appreciation for the good stuff.

 

[KafkaBot]

Disco Elysium for those with literary inclinations.

Classic, comfy adventures such as Grim Fandango, Myst and Loom.

Slow-paced adventure games with horror elements like Dead Secret and Scratches for those who are so inclined.

If they enjoy mystery, Return of the Obra Dinn and The Case of the Golden Idol.

Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and Journey.

The Sea Will Claim Everything.

Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening. It is the easiest of the classic 2D Zeldas and has quite a charming plot.

If they are willing to solve puzzles, things like The Talos Principle and The Witness.

Thief Gold and Thief 2 if they patient enough to appreciate stealth games.

If by gentlemen you mean people who aren't gamers but want a game that's rich in artistic expression while not being too mechanically complex, probably Cosmology of Kyoto.

Cosmology of Kyoto is phenomenal, but can be quite esoteric and a bit obtuse at times. It will definitely please those who enjoy this kind of artistic expression, but even many open-minded people might end up bouncing off of this one. I'd only recommend it to the kind of person who is willing to, say, watch a Terayama flick.

 

[catfood]

Need for Speed Porsche

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

Disco Elysium for those with literary inclinations.

Classic, comfy adventures such as Grim Fandango, Myst and Loom.

Slow-paced adventure games with horror elements like Dead Secret and Scratches for those who are so inclined.

If they enjoy mystery, Return of the Obra Dinn and The Case of the Golden Idol.

Ico, Shadow of the Colossus and Journey.

The Sea Will Claim Everything.

Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening. It is the easiest of the classic 2D Zeldas and has quite a charming plot.

If they are willing to solve puzzles, things like The Talos Principle and The Witness.

Thief Gold and Thief 2 if they patient enough to appreciate stealth games.

If by gentlemen you mean people who aren't gamers but want a game that's rich in artistic expression while not being too mechanically complex, probably Cosmology of Kyoto.

Cosmology of Kyoto is phenomenal, but can be quite esoteric and a bit obtuse at times. It will definitely please those who enjoy this kind of artistic expression, but even many open-minded people might end up bouncing off of this one. I'd only recommend it to the kind of person who is willing to, say, watch a Terayama flick.

I haven't played most of those, tbh, although I've had ample opportunity. I always avoided stuff like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus due to their promotion by the press as "art games", or something that was "more than a game", which to me seemed completely backwards. This can be prejudice, of course. Are they actually exciting to play? Would they make someone more curious about other games?

I hope I've been clear that when I say non-gamer, I mean someone who is ignorant but willing to learn, not someone who's already bored with games.

Need for Speed Porsche

This would be my first choice for a racing game, too. Somewhere between arcade and simulation, plays great, looks great. It makes you love cars and racing. Just before the Fast and Furious miasma which degraded the urban racing genre immensely.

 

[Ash]

I haven't played most of those, tbh, although I've had ample opportunity. I always avoided stuff like Ico and Shadow of the Colossus due to their promotion by the press as "art games", or something that was "more than a game", which to me seemed completely backwards. This can be prejudice, of course. Are they actually exciting to play? Would they make someone more curious about other games?

No. Forget exciting, they're not intelligent to play. You ride around empty plains following your objective marker sword then perform elaborate QTE boss battles. Typical pseudo-intellectual retard gamer shit. Let me demonstrate by taking a unique approach and posting excerpts of POSITIVE reviews from classic gamefaqs:

Gameplay 10/10

Okay, here's the rundown. Dormin hints to you what the next Colossus is like, you jump on your horse, use your sword to converge light to point to where it is, and you ride through the HUGE deserted land (no enemies) to go challenge it. Rinse/repeat 16 times.

Sound boring? You would think so.

However, this is not the case. First...the landscape is so beautiful, I assure you it is a pleasure to run through just to experience the surroundings. But the main reason, and this may be a point of controversy: the fact that you are ENTIRELY alone, except for your horse, is why it is so charming and alluring. If there WERE enemies...I probably would have lowered the score a couple points. But the fact that the game takes special care to make sure that it leads dramatically up to every single colossus fight by building tension as you get closer and closer to where it lies...THAT is why this system works, and that is why you want to do it again, and again. And you will. Again, and again.

Now, the fights themselves proceed like so: see giant, figure out how to get on top of giant (the longest/most difficult part, as every one is different), find giant's weak point by climbing around its various patches of fur and running on top of it, stab its weak point with your sword while grabbing on to whatever you can to keep it from throwing you off...and sometimes it changes its weak point mid-battle...and do this until its dead.

As I'm writing this review, I'm becoming amazed at how the game takes what would seem so boring and repetitive, and makes it completely the opposite. Every colossus is different...so this system does not become dull. The fact that you only have a sword and a bow-and-arrow, and that you're mounting these enormous beasts and slaying them as they attempt to throw you off with epic music playing and incredible blurring camera effects as they brutally try to shake you off...all of these things combined are what create such an indescribable play experience. At the risk of repeating myself too often, I'm going to start wrapping it up. I can't say enough good things here.

"The landscape is beautiful and there's a little bit of tension built, 10/10 gameplay! I would have lowered the score if there were any content than just endless holding the ride button while following objective markers!"

Now for review #2's unnecessarily lengthy take on the dumb as rocks gameplay:

15 years later, Shadow of the Colossus holds up wonderfully. 9/10​

Gameplay:

The first thing anyone interested in this game needs to know is that this game is slow. The player explores a big, empty open world, sparsely populated by fruit trees, lizards, and the 16 colossi that you're tasked with defeating. And... that's it. There are no small "mob" enemies, and large chunks of the game are just spent riding your horse through fields or climbing cliffs and ancient structures.

One thing that keeps this interesting is that while the player gets a map from the beginning, it's really quite terrible and is never meant to be the main way the player navigates the world. Instead, you have a sword that points a beam of light toward the next colossus you have to beat. This beam will sometimes point to big obstacles or cliffs that you have to navigate around, or will occasionally mislead you into dead ends (you might be compensated with stat-boosting fruit or lizards in exchange for having wasted your time.) This means that while you spend a lot of time exploring, you usually feel as though you're getting closer to your destination even when you get lost. In addition to this, a healthy mix of platforming design (climbing, horse riding, running, jumping) keep the game from being too monotonous.

Each of the colossi you fight is completely different in size, shape, and behavior, and often the player must use the environment to their advantage to gain the upper hand. Unlike traditional bosses where you whack away at a health bar while dodging attacks, a surprising number of fights have very few attacks exchanged between either combatant. Instead, the player usually tries to figure out ways to climb on top of the colossus. For instance, one colossus has a sword, and if it strikes you and misses, you can run up the length of the sword, then immediately grab onto the furry climbable parts of its body. Once this happens, the fight is usually a matter of finding places to rest (climbing too long depletes a stamina gauge,) searching for the colossus' weak points (characterized by glowing runes,) and frequently just holding on for dear life while the colossus attempts to shake you off of itself. Upon finding a weak point, you charge up a handful of attacks and stab until the colossus dies, or the rune disappears (at which point you locate another weak point somewhere.)

Beyond these very open-ended elements, the game takes a lot of creative liberties with how these bosses work. Some of them are fought while swimming and, some are fought while riding your horse. Each boss usually has one or two other bosses that are kind of similar to it, but the process is always somewhat different.

What's interesting about these fights is that while they are slow-paced, they're not repetitive at all. If you end up having to climb a colossus a second time, it's usually because you made a mistake and got thrown off. Often the fight is as good as over once you actually start attacking, because getting on top of them is the meat and potatoes of the fight. The end result is a game that's extremely far removed from the typical action adventure title; virtually nothing to collect, and none of the simple "dodge, wait for opening, attack" patterns that you typically see in boss fights.

When it comes to flaws, Shadow of the Colossus has its fair share. The controls can definitely feel a bit imprecise at times. The horse is generally pretty smooth, but rounding tight corners (even while going slow) is really frustrating. When it came to certain obstacles like switchbacks going down a cliff, I opted to hurl myself off the cliff and take fall damage, then whistle at the horse to come down after me. Climbing usually feels okay, but when colossi try to shake you off of them, it can sometimes re-orient the direction your character is facing. More specifically, the player remains anchored to the spot they grabbed by their hands, but if the part you're on rotates, you end up facing a completely different direction. This is super disorienting, and combined with all of the flailing you do, it would have been nice if this happened less often, or if the player had clearer animations to distinguish when it was safe to climb and when you had to hang on.

The flipside of having controls that are often awkward is that it does give a sense of magnitude to your actions as a player. The colossi are huge, and killing them usually takes around half an hour, so to see your character getting tossed around by one really reinforces how powerful they are. It makes destroying them feel all the more impactful, which as a side note, also feels great because of how the player knows from the beginning that there are precisely 16 to destroy. The game manages expectations really well and this keeps the game from feeling as though it's overstayed its welcome.

Probably the single biggest issue I had with the game was one fight in particular, specifically the last boss. Every other colossus took me about half an hour to beat, whereas the last one took me two and a half hours. I would expect the last one to take longer, but not five times as long. What's worse is that most of this time was spent climbing up the colossus again and again (probably 20 times total) because the top sequence had really erratic camera angles. I'll elaborate on this because it's occasionally problematic in other fights: When your character grabs onto something climbable, different actions are available depending on whether the surface is horizontal or vertical. Since you're climbing living things, their movements can make the same surface horizontal or vertical depending on their movements. However, because the camera can be really erratic, gauging whether you're vertical, horizontal, or even knowing which way is up can be next to impossible. Moreover, in trying to get really good "action shots" the camera often zooms out when it would be more useful to see a closer, less obstructed view of the character themselves.

The final boss sucks ass, the controls are jank, you spend a notable portion of the game following objective markers, boss battles are glorified QTEs while you constantly hammer the button prompts that appear on screen to not get knocked off as if there is any mental engagement involved with that at all. Climbing is largely an automated action. 9/10! Note the frequent use of the word "feels" also. Emotional thinkers are the ultimate decline lovers.

These people will sit through endless mind-numbing gameplay if it is pretty and offers spectacle. They never liked old hardcore complex gameplay-oriented games. They're the ones that would get wrecked and give up then complain endlessly online about the difficulty, or push through purely for story etcetera. They were finally being catered to with this mindless shite, and now mindless shite is the new normal. Once devs succumbed to the fact low IQ is the majority, it was over for gaming.

 

[gabel]

Silent Hunter 3

 

[Odoryuk]

Eight-ball, snooker, darts, poker, bridge.

 

[Beastro]

 

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I get it, and agree. The RPGs would come in steady supply on the second set of recommendations and beyond, once we have established the gentlemen has good taste and likes video games. As he should, because they're INCLINE. I just wouldn't bother at all with adventure or puzzle recommendations. I adore those elements in something greater (RPGs, e.g Arx Fatalis has some hardcore puzzling). A game that is puzzles alone isn't really playing to the medium's strengths, not to full potential anyway. I like to have to factor multiple elements of gameplay concurrently (navigation, positioning, resource management, combat etc etc), with maybe a puzzle here and there for variety's sake. The more freedom of expression the player has, the more immersive and atmospheric it potentially is too. The more invested in the entire concept. I think my belief here is also reflected by general consensus across the entire spectrum of gamer types - nobody considers a puzzle or adventure game top 5 GOATs of the industry, except maybe storyfaggots. There is RPG Codex - there is no Puzzle Codex. Well, there used to be niche communities. Dead now.

Well, adventure games have their own rhythm, which I enjoy occasionally. I'm not a big adventure game player, either, but a good point-and-click or even text adventure is an art unto itself. They also serve as a gateway for people who, for one reason or another, are prejudiced against a lot of what we value as "gameplay". I wouldn't exclude them on that account, I'd rather show them what they're missing.