KickStarter Free Stars: Children of Infinity - upcoming Star Control 2 sequel from original creator Fred Ford

[Dakka]

I don't really care how many token gay friends they brag about having. It didn't negatively affect Star Control 2 from what I could tell.

 

[Infinitron]

I've always found this bit of dialogue memorable in how on the nose it was. On the cultural evolution of the Syreen: http://www.sa-matra.net/quotes/syreen/

Like you Earthlings, we evolved a society from primitive tribes
whose main function were to protect themselves from the large reptiles native to our old world.
The main difference between our two sets of cultures... the split in the paths of our development
occurred in what would have been your prehistory, say 5000 BCE.
In your world, the agricultural communities which formed from hunter-gatherer tribes
were conquered by the more primitive but also more aggressive, migratory herding peoples.
This led to a particular kind of sexual and political dominance structure
which pervaded almost all of your Earth Cultures until the early Twenty First century.
On Syra, our only primitive migratory tribes were confined to our mountainous regions.
Their herd beasts, the Yma, did not do well in the agricultural basins and plains
therefore, the two cultures were isolated until much later
when the technological superiority of the farmers curtailed any major conflict.

An obvious reference to Marija Gimbutas-style theories about prehistoric matriarchies - the feminist equivalent of WE WUZ KANGS.

 

[MRY]

At least they didn't try to paint corporations as diabolical...

EDIT: Oh man, reading the old dialogue brought a smile to my face:

You know, Captain, we have heard that there is a race called the Melnorme
which has recently entered this part of the galaxy.
We understand that they sell fuel for gross profit
charge fees for common knowledge
and provide a `rescue service' which amounts to little more than piracy.
How criminal.
Just an aside, Captain. We thought you might like to know
that the resources which can be salvaged from a Melnorme wreck are phenomenal.

 

[Infinitron]

On the other hand, they also made the Syreen outrageous sexpots, allowed you to make lewd comments about them in dialogue, and there was even a ridiculous interactive sex scene. None of that would fly today.

At least they didn't try to paint corporations as diabolical...

EDIT: Oh man, reading the old dialogue brought a smile to my face:

You know, Captain, we have heard that there is a race called the Melnorme
which has recently entered this part of the galaxy.
We understand that they sell fuel for gross profit
charge fees for common knowledge
and provide a `rescue service' which amounts to little more than piracy.
How criminal.
Just an aside, Captain. We thought you might like to know
that the resources which can be salvaged from a Melnorme wreck are phenomenal.

I remember that, and the Melnorme's dialogue about the Druuge was just as fun.

 

[Dakka]

On the other hand, they also made the Syreen outrageous sexpots, allowed you to make lewd comments about them in dialogue, and there was even a ridiculous interactive sex scene. None of that would fly today.

Star Control 3 made them ugly, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[Zarniwoop]

I give exactly zero fucks what a developer's views are, unless they shoehorn them into game/movie franchises that should have absolutely nothing to do with politics in the first place.

Just to be clear, your view is that (1) space opera (i.e., the genre of Starship Troopers, Star Trek, Foundation, Dune, Firefly, Ender's Game, Babylon 5, etc.*) "should have nothing to do with politics" and (2) Star Control II did not have politics in it (in direct contradiction to Reiche's own description)? It seems like both halves of this are blatantly wrong.

It is likely the case that (a) space opera creators' politics have generally drifted leftward; (b) some consumers' have drifted rightward; (c) having been told that they should stop consuming and start dying by various Twitter radicals, consumers on the right are highly sensitized to, and inclined to fight more over, politics in mass media. But given that another Star Control game from these two heroes is an unexpected grace, it seems like the proper approach is to try to control any allergic political reaction and enjoy the game, in the same way that it makes sense not to get up in arms over the global warming themes of the Julian Gollop's new game even if you'd rather not listen to environmentalism.

(* Note that I'm not even bothering to list the dozens of overtly political major space opera writers like Pohl, Delaney, Ringo, Reynolds, Brin, Pournelle, etc., or the even more political space opera writers of the past twenty years.)

It was a game about silly aliens in a galaxy full of ancient secrets, a race against time before a big civil war destroys everything, and blue space sluts.

Reading a little much into what I said there.

 

[HansDampf]

But the themes are buried in there, and that's fine. I think what people mean when they say, "leave politics out of my gaems" is more like: "Leave the stupid CURRENT_DAY twitter controversies out of my gaems." I can only speak for myself, but I'm fed up hearing about them everywhere. I don't want to be reminded of them when I'm paying a game.
And there is always that one chracater. You know, the pink-haired/quirky/tough/whatever Mary Sue who functions as the developer's mouthpiece and treats the player like a child who didn't know homosexuals exist. Or how about blatant GG or Trump references? Wouldn't be the first time.

But Fred and Paul seemed like chill dudes in their SCII postmortem video, and the two quotes you've posted are pretty meh, I don't see any red flags there. I remain fabulously optimistic.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

It's because SCII deals in political themes at most, and not "Current Year" issues.

Remember this text?

We have delved most deeply into the dark and greasy heart of the Ilwrath.
And what do you suppose we found there?
Well, we found a torpid, vile, malign, odious, spiteful spirit.
Right, no surprises there.
What did surprise us though, was what we saw when we regressed into their past lives!
It turns out that in their last lives, the Ilwrath were all shining beings of pure light and blissfull love.
They had reached the pinnacle of spiritual evolution and could go no further.
They were perfection.
And then, somehow they got just a tiny bit better
and WHAM, they were all of a sudden totally evil.
Wouldn't you know it, get too perfect and you wrap right around to evil.
That is why we Pkunk strive to be perfect
but always do little bad and annoying things to keep from ending up like the Ilwrath.

This is not a specific reference to any single political act, but a general observation of how many events can end up.

You can apply that concept to so many things we Codexers know and hate. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions," "The Greater Good," etc.

 

[Dakka]

This is not a specific reference to any single political act, but a general observation of how many events can end up.

You can apply that concept to so many things we Codexers know and hate. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions," "The Greater Good," etc.

I always assumed it was just a programming joke.

 

[MRY]

It's because SCII deals in political themes at most, and not "Current Year" issues ... not a specific reference to any single political act

I think the game has a mix of both, it's just that since it is now 25 years since the "current year" of SCII, the particular references no longer have resonance. The Druuge literally talk about the "Dribble-Down effect." ("Our corporation seeks only to improve our quality of life and does so via the 'Dribble-Down' effect.") And of course there are the pink triangles on the Androsynth, the Gimbutas stuff that Infinitron mentioned, the New Agey Pkunk stuff ("Why dwell on the heinous Ilwrath when we could speak of flowers, rainbows, fairies, and crystal magic."), not to mention zaniness like an explicit reference to Monty Python videos, etc., etc.

This is not a specific reference to any single political act, but a general observation of how many events can end up.

You can apply that concept to so many things we Codexers know and hate. "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions," "The Greater Good," etc.

I always assumed it was just a programming joke.

I took it that way, too, and thought it was hilarious.

 

[Zarniwoop]

Besides, we already had a "for the modern audience" sequel to Star Control 2.

It was called Star Control 3.

We all know how that turned out.

 

[Fowyr]

There is politics in SC2, but you need to look closer to find it.
http://wiki.uqm.stack.nl/Small_War_of_2015
Original manual text talks about "Peace Army"

Still, it's pretty inoffensive and can't distract me from enjoying Star Control 2.

 

[Makabb]

Why stardock is making a new SC if original makers are also making a new one? doesn't make sense.

 

[MRY]

(1) Because Stardock started theirs years before original makers undertook their own project.
(2) Because Wardell took PR&FF's musings about someday returning to the game as unlikely to materialize.

 

[Zombra]

 

[Makabb]

I hope they will bring the combat to todays standards, while the game is great, the 'super melee' combat is shit today in sc.

 

[Beastro]

At least they didn't try to paint corporations as diabolical...

The Druuge were more blatant and less amusing in that regard.

 

[Dakka]

I hope they will bring the combat to todays standards, while the game is great, the 'super melee' combat is shit today in sc.

Well, I can see you've certainly earned your shitposter and bethestard tags.

 

[Zombra]

I'm fabulously cautious about this. I love Reiche and Ford, not just for SC2, but for the original game, and Archon, and The Unholy War (still wish there was an easier way to play on PC than figuring out PSX emulation). Shit, they're honest to God industry heroes. But ... I wonder if they still have "the magic".

It makes me a little nervous to see them type out that list of "all your old favorites!" SC2 fleshed out the original game wonderfully to be sure, but was also bursting with fresh ideas. Half the races were all new. Heck, the Androsynth were dumped altogether ... and their lack of inclusion became a fascinating mystery which, instead of detracting from the game, actually added to it (despite never really going anywhere). I liked the Ultron story in SC2, but as we saw in SC3, bringing it back just for the sake of bringing it back wasn't exactly brilliant. That wasn't Ford & Reiche of course, but hopefully you see my point.

I'll follow development (assuming there's any public info to follow - these guys aren't famous for their communication) like a starving wolf following - I don't know - something delicious. But can you really go home again? To mix a metaphor.

 

[LESS T_T]

Some Twitter Q&A:

Fred and I are managing this on our own for now.

I keep reading that TfB will not be part of this game. Is Activision letting you guys do this on the side?

Yes. The game is starting as the previous ended, 25 years ago, with just the two of us. As TFB grew, we became further and further removed from development. We have missed that and thought this a good way to return.

Are you planning on self-publishing/running a Kickstarter?

We are considering crowd-funding to tell us if we should crowd-fund GotP. High levels of funding mean low desire for crowd-funding GotP. In all seriousness, we have nothing to announce at this time.

Shut up and take my money!

For now, we are funding the project ourselves, which allows us the luxury of not thinking about money during Ghosts ‘formative youth’.

Where do I put my credit card number? Can I send cash? My first born? I want your new Star Control now!

I’ve always wondered about the ‘first born’ offer. Are all first born value ranked equally? How about twins? This is complex.

We are not in a hiring way quite yet. I promise we will make all kinds of racket when the time is right.

And heh, they linked this Codex thread on Twitter with the image posted by Unkillable Cat:




In the meantime, Toys for Bob is looking for engineer with Unreal experience: https://activision.referrals.selectminds.com/toysforbob/jobs/unreal-engineer-1653

Toys for Bob is looking for a qualified Generalist Software Engineer with Unreal Engine 4 experience to join our team in creating the next generation in our history of award-winning, best-selling games.

Description is very generic and this probably is for preparing the next big thing after the decline of "toys to life" like Skylanders. I wonder if they are going to literally make a Spyro game inspired by the popularity of Crash Bandicoot remaster?

 

[Quigs]

I think what people mean when they say, "leave politics out of my gaems" is more like: "Leave the stupid CURRENT_DAY twitter controversies out of my gaems." I can only speak for myself, but I'm fed up hearing about them everywhere. I don't want to be reminded of them when I'm paying a game.

I think you're dead wrong here. When there's a larger chance to make a difference in someone's current thought process, or at least introduce them to a different way to look at something, that's when it's the best time to bring it up. Saturation sucks, but dealing with noise to signal is basically what life is for anyone who cares to look.

And there is always that one chracater. You know, the pink-haired/quirky/tough/whatever Mary Sue who functions as the developer's mouthpiece and treats the player like a child who didn't know homosexuals exist.

Bad writing is bad writing. You're talking about the type of shit that got Galileo tossed in jail for being a cunt. That's a separate issue from having different topical thoughts brought up within a game. You're basically suggesting video games shouldn't be allowed to express parody. I don't think you're an idiot, but I do think you couldn't be more wrong on this one.

 

[Dakka]

Bad writing is bad writing. You're talking about the type of shit that got Galileo tossed in jail for being a cunt. That's a separate issue from having different topical thoughts brought up within a game. You're basically suggesting video games shouldn't be allowed to express parody. I don't think you're an idiot, but I do think you couldn't be more wrong on this one.

Fair point, but when have you seen real world politics handled well in a game?

 

[Quigs]

Fair point, but when have you seen real world politics handled well in a game?

Hard to say. Without hiding behind a joke answer like CK2 or Civ, I'd say Witcher 3, with Novigrad and Mages/Non-humans being analogous to the left's crusade against 'privilege'.

 

[Roscoe Scaggs]

Update:

https://dogarandkazon.squarespace.c...eat-battles-and-some-of-them-involved-lawyers

“THERE WERE MANY GREAT BATTLES... AND SOME OF THEM INVOLVED LAWYERS.”

Unfortunately there appears to be a growing legal conflict between us and Stardock. We started out confused at what Stardock said and did. We tried to be reasonable and settle the problem quietly, but now after months of debate we are flat out mad! First, a little background information on just our side of the story:

• In 2013, Stardock bought a limited set of Atari’s assets at a bankruptcy auction -- primarily the name and trademark Star Control® and certain original aspects of Star Control III, like the space cows. It’s our opinion that Atari’s rights to publish our earlier games terminated over a decade before the auction and we contend that Stardock has zero rights to our games, including any code and other IP we created.
• As far as we can currently tell, we have no relationship with Stardock that lets them sell the three earlier Star Control games without our permission, either bundled with their other products or separately. That permission has not been given.
• Despite what Stardock's Brad Wardell has recently said, including in this Ars Technica article, our games’ universe has absolutely no connection, hyper-dimensional or otherwise, with Star Control®: Origins. (Note: We really don’t like other people putting our names in their diagrams without asking us first.)

Stardock now seems to think that not only can they use our aliens, ships and narrative without our permission, but thinks that we cannot make a sequel to The Ur-Quan Masters without their permission -- this is where we got really, really angry.

When we started Ghosts of the Precursors™ we were looking forward to spending our time on fun, creative work, not fighting a legal battle to protect ourselves and our work. We have nothing but respect for the talented, passionate developers working on Star Control: Origins, but we apparently have a BIG problem right now with Stardock’s management. We’ve been waiting 25 years to make Ghosts of the Precursors for our fans and we certainly won’t let this stop us. Go! Go! Go!

Evidently all is not well between them and Stardock.

So fuck Stardock I guess.

Even if the game Paul and Fred make is shit (if they can even make it) at least they will be the ones killing their franchise rather than some dipshit who bought the rights at Atari's yard sale.

 

[Makabb]

fuck stardock, they make shit games anyway.

I want to see 2 of them make the real sequel.