Everquest Next

[Major_Blackhart]

So, evercrack is still around?
We gonna get a real codex group going?

 

[Ranselknulf]

I have no interest in playing this game.

 

[Minttunator]

There are quite a bunch of MMORPGs (and CORPGs) that do that. WoW's PvP may not have been the best (nor was it utter crap), but it was a nice change of pace from time to time and the mere knowledge that you could be ganked (almost anywhere) at any time, helped build up an atmosphere.

The problem with PVE+PVP existing together in WoW was, in my opinion, mainly the fact that once they introduced Arenas and started balancing the game around PVP, it constantly fucked with the gaming experience of PVE players (because abilities that they were relying on in PVE often got nerfed for PVP purposes). The reverse can also occur, but is less prevalent (since imbalance in PVP typically causes more whining). The solution is to have different rulesets - e.g. a spell lasting X seconds in PVE but Y seconds in PVP - but that's too much work for most developers.

 

[Ranselknulf]

or make different servers with different focuses.

 

[Ninjerk]

There are quite a bunch of MMORPGs (and CORPGs) that do that. WoW's PvP may not have been the best (nor was it utter crap), but it was a nice change of pace from time to time and the mere knowledge that you could be ganked (almost anywhere) at any time, helped build up an atmosphere.

The problem with PVE+PVP existing together in WoW was, in my opinion, mainly the fact that once they introduced Arenas and started balancing the game around PVP, it constantly fucked with the gaming experience of PVE players (because abilities that they were relying on in PVE often got nerfed for PVP purposes). The reverse can also occur, but is less prevalent (since imbalance in PVP typically causes more whining). The solution is to have different rulesets - e.g. a spell lasting X seconds in PVE but Y seconds in PVP - but that's too much work for most developers.

Well, the bigger problem that fed into this is the balance disparity in vanilla between pure classes and hybrids. You can tell they knew what they wanted out of rogues and mages, but if you look at the talent trees for shaman, druids, paladins, and even warriors you can tell that some of the talent trees were much more "inspired."

 

[BrickManslab]

Including a special stat just for PVP seems to be popular nowadays but that generally just means you're grinding for two sets of equipment so you can grind for another two sets

 

[Ninjerk]

Enjoy your extra gameplay.

 

[Xenich]

There are quite a bunch of MMORPGs (and CORPGs) that do that. WoW's PvP may not have been the best (nor was it utter crap), but it was a nice change of pace from time to time and the mere knowledge that you could be ganked (almost anywhere) at any time, helped build up an atmosphere.

The problem with PVE+PVP existing together in WoW was, in my opinion, mainly the fact that once they introduced Arenas and started balancing the game around PVP, it constantly fucked with the gaming experience of PVE players (because abilities that they were relying on in PVE often got nerfed for PVP purposes). The reverse can also occur, but is less prevalent (since imbalance in PVP typically causes more whining). The solution is to have different rulesets - e.g. a spell lasting X seconds in PVE but Y seconds in PVP - but that's too much work for most developers.

Well, the bigger problem that fed into this is the balance disparity in vanilla between pure classes and hybrids. You can tell they knew what they wanted out of rogues and mages, but if you look at the talent trees for shaman, druids, paladins, and even warriors you can tell that some of the talent trees were much more "inspired."

The problem I see with PvE balancing is that people have the mindset that every class should be balanced against every other class in strength and ability. That is, even if a game doesn't have PvP, people demand it be balanced like it does due to class envy. When you do such balancing, you end up with bland systems and mechanics. I always thought that it was best to give a defining element to a class and then make them be the best at that focus. Hybrids were generalists, fitting the play style of those who preferred complexity in their selection of abilities over that of simplistic mastery. Specialists were powerful in a focus, but extremely limited in options. Balance should be achieved not "between" classes, rather between the game and the class. Fact is, you will never achieve balance attempting to attend to the class envy players. They are idiots and will whine and throw tantrums anyway. I remember trying to show players in early EQ how their class was useful, but most of the adamant whiners were nothing more than little babies that kept wanting the toy in the other kids hand.

 

[Xenich]

Including a special stat just for PVP seems to be popular nowadays but that generally just means you're grinding for two sets of equipment so you can grind for another two sets

Needs to be more than that to achieve results that avoid PvE/PvP influencing each other. Completely separate rule sets is the only way to do that, but like someone already said, that takes extra development time and no studio is going to waste that on the PvP game. In these games, PvP is nothing more than a carrot gimmick anyway.

Aside from that, the one thing that makes PvP pointless in these games is their need to make fights flow fast. I remember EQ battles taking quite a while, some even going on for 30 mins to an hour if it was open world. These days, PvP battles are 10-30 second fights where pre-loaded gimmicks are king and the ability to react, think, change up tactics, and apply varying approaches within a single fight are lost. All you see now is "Boom, Bam.. I rapz ur mutha! Loading..."

 

[Ninjerk]

http://www.pcgamesn.com/exploring-everquest-next-landmark-closed-alphas-best-builds

Full text in the spoiler. This game is something, man.

Spoiler

Everquest Next Landmark's desert is a little like a post-apocalyptic world in progress, littered with half-finished but deserted houses and castles of such scale and imposing beauty that great Ozymandias would regret wasting so much time erecting vast and trunkless legs of stone to troll passing travellers. In most cases, they're deserted while their creators go to mine more of the gold or whatever else they need to put the finishing touches on them, but that's okay. While you can't mine anyone else's claim, for obvious reasons, you can visit all them and travel between servers to see what people have made now that they're free of the tyranny of solid blocks and able to craft in slopes, spheres and other voxel goodness.

Here's some of our favourites from around the assorted servers, mostly for doing something a bit different with the tools than simply putting up a house - though the houses people are building are already looking great, and come in just about every flavour you can imagine.



STARGATE ISLAND

Located not far away from the local equivalent, here's a great example of small-scale design well executed - a floating island with frozen water awaiting the ability to play with the real flowing kind, integrated (though sadly non-functional DHD), funky path to the torch-lit donut of destiny. In another world, you could well imagine stepping through it and finding yourself in a strange new world of beauty and wonder. Here though, the filling is hard rock, so you'd only break your nose. Stick with regular Spire travel instead. (Understanding/Vent)

TITANIUM'S SECRET SPY BASE

A while back it was discovered that the NSA had planted spies in World of Warcraft, which seemed a little unlikely. Surely they'd have done something about Garrosh's plans for Pandaria if so. In Everquest Next though, there may be a few early signs of government/supervillainy, with what looks like a full nuclear silo underneath. If sleepy old Kerafym is back for Everquest Next proper, he'd better keep his head down. (Liberation/Shallows)

DREYA'S COTTAGE

There's no way to lock up your creations yet, but most people happily let you use their crafting stations and other things. Dreya merely has one request - don't go into the basement. But why? What's the that could-

Right. Don't go into the basement. Message received. Got it. (???/Watershed)

MCDONALDS

That's right, even fantasy worlds aren't immune to the spread of capitalism. On the plus side, Landmark does seem to be surprisingly dick and boob free for a game that said to the internet "Come and build whatever you like!" But then, it's early days, and early access isn't cheap. Not too surprising that players have opted for more respectable erections, amongst them the giant statue that towers over it with no small sense of artistic smugness. But like the real world, there's art and there's Chicken McNuggets. Cravings must be met. (Satisfaction/Watershed)

COLDNYTE

On the surface, this one is already pretty nifty - not least because it floats a few feet above it, accessible via a clever ladder hack that actually uses a series of slightly indented platforms to get you up and on top. But the cool part of this build is that it goes both ways, into a sprawling mine... as sprawling as a small claim allows, anyway... where you'll find the Everquest Next equivalent of Majestic 12 squeezing Norrath in its claw, and this former inhabitant. Luckily, he's dead and there's no sign of Marcelline having written her name on anything, so Coldnyte should be fine.

BARAD-DUR

Two claims, one on top of the other, are needed to create this fine recreation of Sauron's imposing fortress and the eye which lets him see. Just a few minor problems. Even with the best graphics card in the world, he's not going to see much thanks to Landmark's limited viewing distance. Second, he's chosen to placed it in a world called 'Knob'. This would have made for a much stranger movie, especially when Frodo declared "I will take the ring to Knob." He'll need a lot of vaseline, or that will really chafe. (Understanding/Knob)

BEST BUG REPORT EVER

Pardon the borrowed image from the EQNL forums, but this deserves a prize for style and effort on both sides. A player uses the tools to wittily register a romantic problem with the game for this year's Valentine's Day, and the developers respond properly. Certainly beats the usual trade of e-mails or a quick comment about waiting for closed beta, doesn't it? Though for Sony's sake, we hope this doesn't become the new way of communicating. True, it adds a certain Moses element to it, but just wait until the terms and conditions of the game need updating. The lawyers will be poking and prodding at microvoxels for hours...

KING KUMA'S PLAYGROUND

What do you mean there's no monsters in Everquest Next Landmark yet? Look! It's a whole city, that probably shouldn't be there, being crushed by a monster that may be a 2D cut-out shooting painted on death-breath, but at least looks more realistic than about 70% of all Godzilla movies. You can storm around past the skyscrapers and imagine a day when real foes will be there to join you, or maybe a future in Everquest Next proper where everything will be as destructible as it looks like it should be. Grargh! Trailblazer smash! (Liberation/Vent)

GATEKEEPER

Good lord! So much for the 'boob free' thing. This titanic demon with the emphasis firmly on the first syllable is so complex that she takes a while for all her voxels to pop into existence... so maybe she's actually wearing a bra and cardigan but it just hasn't loaded yet. Get up close though and she's an imposing figure, with flames bursting out of her magic ball and the kind of ass crack you could take a pickaxe to and have a good chance of striking tourmaline. Still a surprising lack of dicks though. But they must be out there. Somewhere. (Satisfaction/Overlook)

Have you seen anything cool while exploring Everquest Next Landmark? To see some of the best builds without having to physically run around the map, the Alpha Forums have a weekly screenshot collection where everyone is welcome to post their creations. You'll find it stuck at the top, here, with links to past weeks at the start. Be aware though that builds can appear and disappear, and not everyone remembers to post where to find them. There's a lot of islands now to search through if they don't...

 

[Xenich]

http://www.pcgamesn.com/exploring-everquest-next-landmark-closed-alphas-best-builds
This game is something, man.

If they were selling the server software to host your own EQ Next server with the content and design you decide I would be all over it. That isn't going to happen though.

 

[Ninjerk]

Probably not.

 

[Alchemist]

They've said that Landmark will supposedly be a "build your own MMO" platform when feature-complete. I imagine the eventual possibility that they would rent out entire private worlds to do what you want with (a similar business model to Second Life). I doubt self-hosting on your own hardware would happen, but who knows...

 

[Xenich]

They've said that Landmark will supposedly be a "build your own MMO" platform when feature-complete. I imagine the eventual possibility that they would rent out entire private worlds to do what you want with (a similar business model to Second Life). I doubt self-hosting on your own hardware would happen, but who knows...

Knowing Smed and Sony since their start in the MMO market, I seriously doubt that the result of that product will be anything more than a modernized farmville/Minecraft. That is, I doubt the result will be anything to the benefit of a free thinking developer with complete control over the product and its features. I sincerely hope I am wrong though... but I know I am right.

 

[felipepepe]

Just got my key for Landmark's Beta.

 

[SmartCheetah]

Just got my key for Landmark's Beta.

7-days one? If so, I think I got one as well.

 

[Hoaxmetal]

How did you get those?

 

[felipepepe]

How did you get those?

I signed for the beta on their website.

 

[SmartCheetah]

Same story with me. But it says it's valid only for 7-days. Quite shitty deal, if you'd ask me.

 

[felipepepe]

Especially considering how grindy the game is for people that didn't buy the their way into the beta. I logged in, found the graphics and animation great, then saw other people's houses, harvested for about 1 hours, saw I had fucking nothing and logged off.

No way I'm throwing so much hours into this, just to see all vanish after 7 days. Other than that, seems like a good game, but far from beta since there are tons of features to implement yet. The full MMO should be quite good.

 

[SmartCheetah]

That's pretty lame to let people sign up for beta, and eventually say "Hey, we're giving free keys only for 7days. If you want to play more, pay!"
Faggots.

 

[Data4]

Got it. Hate it. Honestly, it's more fun scrolling through screenshots looking at what other people have made than to go out there grinding for shit to make a pathetic little hovel because you have other shit to do besides Landmarking, like... you know, life.

 

[felipepepe]

Yeah, the moment I saw that cutting a tree meant like 2 minutes holding your mouse over it, while the life bar slowly chips away, I knew this wasn't for me.

 

[Rahdulan]

Got it. Hate it. Honestly, it's more fun scrolling through screenshots looking at what other people have made than to go out there grinding for shit to make a pathetic little hovel because you have other shit to do besides Landmarking, like... you know, life.

So only the best Landmarks will actually make it into EQN proper, right? If not I seriously hope SoE learned from SWG and introduced some kind of lot decay or something that will prevent people from grabbing all the land and then abandoning the game, leaving all other players with abandoned houses/cities/whatever which will never disappear because "inactive accounts will get their lots disbanded and materials returned" policy was never seriously practiced.

 

[Data4]

Got it. Hate it. Honestly, it's more fun scrolling through screenshots looking at what other people have made than to go out there grinding for shit to make a pathetic little hovel because you have other shit to do besides Landmarking, like... you know, life.

So only the best Landmarks will actually make it into EQN proper, right? If not I seriously hope SoE learned from SWG and introduced some kind of lot decay or something that will prevent people from grabbing all the land and then abandoning the game, leaving all other players with abandoned houses/cities/whatever which will never disappear because "inactive accounts will get their lots disbanded and materials returned" policy was never seriously practiced.

There's this misconception that the sole purpose of Landmark is to make shit for EQN. It's not. However, there will probably be contests and such for people who want to try to build for EQN, and my understanding is those will have to follow thematic rules. To be honest, I have seen some stuff that was very well made, and would look perfectly fine in EQN. Those builds are what you see in the screenshot showcases, however, and the vast majority of stuff people build around the gamespace is garbage.