Everquest Next

[Kane]

f2p is truly a disease.

It won't go away. There are not enough people that are willing to pay a monthly fee to sustain operations. That's true for almost all MMO. If you can solve this problem, I am sure everyone here will welcome p2p MMOs back with open arms.

Go.

What is way more important thatn the monetization question is changing the meaning of MMOs from worthless singleplayer grindware back to what they were in the glorious UO days.

 

[Scroo]

This looks like shit. And you will probably be able to buy crafting potions and other crap from their P2W F2P-Store so no thanks. Besides, it's going to be tailored towards a casual facebook crowd, which is reason enough to not touch this thing.

 

[Terpsichore]

It's not that there aren't enough people willing to pay, p2p MMOs existed for many years, even WoW has been p2p for almost 9 years already and it doesn't looks like Kotickvision Blizzard is having financial issues over that.

What happened is that the definition of "what's enough" has bloated, f2p generates more cash than p2p because more money is spent on average. In order to unlock all of the normal gameplay features, people have to pay way more than what a standard monthly subscription would cost and it usually applies separately to all characters. Toss in winged unicorns and kawaii bunny suits (stuff like this is completely out of place) for retards and you're set.

It isn't as bad when the game has some sort of "gold subscription" plan which is basically your normal monthly fee, unlocking all the features (even though it tends to cost more) but even then the segregation effect and the general feeling of dumbfuckery is present, cash shops feels inherently stupid and disrupting.

f2p also attracts undesirable masses of all kinds, kids, feral foreigners, farmers (that always undermine the economy, there's no way around it other than not having an actual economy, kinda like WoW does), sperglords that join and quit all the time (hurting guilds and such), etc. People that choose to pay a monthly fee/bought the game do it because they are determined to play the game after having played their trial/first free month.

The actual balance related issues of f2p model are minor when compared to what it does to the game and community iself. Not even talking about the aberrations that are asian f2p MMOs.


In my eyes, "f2p" should work like an unlimited trial of sorts but with a time limit, after which people can pay the monthly fee and upgrade their account, hell, the fee can be made weekly, daily or even based on actual time spent in-game, using a fair pricing system. The most discouraging aspect of p2p seems to be "wasting days", not being able to play often enough to justify the cost. With such a system the worries would be eliminated.


Though, I actually prefer the classical monthly fee since it makes the players more commited.

 

[Kane]

Though, I actually prefer the classical monthly fee since it makes the players more commited.

Almost none of the MMOs on the market is worth that commitment that is my point. Solving F2P means making a game that is worth 15 bucks a month.

 

[Terpsichore]

Well, that's a different issue.

Also, f2p games are inherently worse in all aspects since just like the players, developers and publishers aren't as commited. The focus shifted from creating something entertaining enough to keep the players subbed to thinking about new ways of exploiting the cash shop, paired with some basic psychological scams. Don't forget all the hype and false advertising that happens prior to the release. On release is when the biggest amount of cash is spent due to the sheer blind diving. Even if the game flips (and it always does nowadays), the amount of cash racked during the first month is profitable enough. Yet a healthy subscription based MMO would make way more cash on the long run, but why bother? Planning and foresight are skills long forgotten.

Games for spergs from spergs.

 

[Kane]

Yet a healthy subscription based MMO would make way more cash on the long run

That is simply not true. Maybe these games would make enough money, if they would be "good enough" to attract more players. But they aren't. Therefore they go F2P. And tbh, with these turds these days it's obvious from closed beta or even earlier that the game will end up F2P in a short time. So why not start out with F2P to begin with?

P2P also requires that the developers puts in a metric shittonne of time into the game before the game is released, which translates to a higher risk on the developers part. F2P reduces risk while allowing for a more flexible revenue stream. F2P simply can't be beaten even if YOU as player think of P2P as the coming of christ. You can demand planning and foresight until you are blue in the face, when that is neither neccessary nor even possible.

A lot of good game design comes down to luck. Who honestly thought that WoW would drive 12 million subscribers?

 

[Terpsichore]

Well, that's exactly what I wrote.

 

[Kane]

Well, you make it sound like F2P is the end of the world. But it isn't. There are very good reasons for F2P and it does make sense for some games. For example, Planetside 2 as a game would not be possible with P2P even if it had feature disparity with its predecessor. And I'd rather be able to play PS2 with a cashshop than having no cashshop and no PS2 at all.


As with everything, F2P depends on the specific implementation.

 

[Terpsichore]

And the implementation always seems to be shit.

 

[made]

I'm sure this will revolutionize the genre just like GW2 did...

 

[LeStryfe79]

I really dug the theme song until I realized it was a ripoff of Man of Steel's Theme.

 

[Alchemist]

I like how everyone has already figured out exactly how EQ Next will play, and the economics / business model. What they showed is a tech demo, nothing more. And they told us some of the high-level design goals. The actual game is still in early development and I'm sure a lot can and will change, aside from the art style. Still way too early to judge the game in my opinion.

I understand skepticism with SOE though - they don't have a stellar track record in all things.

By the way, they have some community polls here if anyone's interested: https://www.everquestnext.com/round-table
You can vote on important issues such as female dwarf beards and the inclusion of Ratonga.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

EQ Next looks like shit.

 

[slackerwizrd]

What is way more important thatn the monetization question is changing the meaning of MMOs from worthless singleplayer grindware back to what they were in the glorious UO days.

I haven't played EQ1 or EQ2 in many years. EQ1's grindfest was (still is?) crap. Sure, there's classes that can solo crap, but having to sit around for hours to grind with a group was sad. Some classes were just crap to group with - Druid being the most glaring example because every other class did it better. Singleplayer grind is still crap, but at least it's something to do while you do group grind crap.

 

[Ranselknulf]

To be fair John Smedley did say they were going to make the game free to play at the demo.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Can't edit it anymore but here is the video.

Last question in the set. (2:57)

 

[Turisas]

What is that horseshit? Doesn't MoS have the real Superman theme at all? Fuck Zimmer.

 

[slackerwizrd]

What is that horseshit? Doesn't MoS have the real Superman theme at all? Fuck Zimmer.

It's a reboot; therefore, a different look on the series and the comics. I kinda like the newer Superman versus the campy Superman.

 

[Terpsichore]

Can't edit it anymore but here is the video.

Last question in the set. (2:57)

He looks like a degenerate homosexual melonhead.

No wonder.

 

[Kane]

He looks like a degenerate homosexual melonhead.

his father is an american hero (and an astronaut)

 

[Dire Roach]

I really dug the theme song until I realized it was a ripoff of Man of Steel's Theme.

They decided to go with Jeremy Soule for the music, huh? Thank goodness. I was beginning to worry that people might have started getting tired of hearing his music in every other fucking video game.

I AM VERY UPSET ABOUT MUSIC IN GENERIC FANTASY GAMES

 

[Minttunator]

Just a look at the Torchlight art style is enough to know it's going to suck and there is no hope of incline.

Have to agree with this - as much as I'm ashamed of being a graphics whore, I'm really getting tired of the stylized/cartoony look that seems to be all the rage these days. I understand why devs do it (low poly count and low-res textures = lower system requirements = more people playing), but I was hoping for something different.

Image by someone on the EQ forums:

EDIT: Fucking Jeremy Soule, really? Don't get me wrong - he's done some good work over the years, but I'd imagine that even mainstream gamers are starting to grow tired of hearing his music in every goddamn fantasy game.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

World of Warcraft happened.

 

[abnaxus]

Image by someone on the EQ forums:

EDIT: Fucking Jeremy Soule, really? Don't get me wrong - he's done some good work over the years, but I'd imagine that even mainstream gamers are starting to grow tired of hearing his music in every goddamn fantasy game.

2014 version looks like Jajuka from Escaflowne

 

[Alchemist]

Just a look at the Torchlight art style is enough to know it's going to suck and there is no hope of incline.

Have to agree with this - as much as I'm ashamed of being a graphics whore, I'm really getting tired of the stylized/cartoony look that seems to be all the rage these days. I understand why devs do it (low poly count and low-res textures = lower system requirements = more people playing), but I was hoping for something different.

According to the devs another reason for the art style is that it ages better than a realistic style. Actually they are a right about that, but there is a lot of middle ground between photo-realism and full-on cartoony they could have explored. Personally I would have loved for it to look traditional fantasy art, like the Keith Parkinson EQ covers and Larry Elmore, or even Frank Frazetta. Those styles aren't photo realistic and would still age well, in my opinion.

At this point it's a pipe dream to think they'll change anything though.