Anime Enlighten me about VR gear bros

[Urthor]

VR doesn't need a killer app for the market to explode IMO, although if the next Halo/Crysis came along it definitely would. The issue is pricing. The current VR demos are already shockingly good and impressive enough to make people take notice, but it's a multi thousand dollar investment between the GPU and the headset to make everything work.

It'll take 5 years for the cost of headsets to come down and the amount of GPU processing power to go up to make VR really hit its stride, next console generation with PSVR2 minimum before anything happens.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I'd say the bottom line with VR gear right now is this: try before you buy. If I had tried Vive before I bought it, I probably wouldn't have. However, I have friends who love VR regardless, so maybe the video quality wouldn't be an issue for you.

The only problem is that I looked before I bought the Vive and couldn't find one single store in a very large metropolitan area that had Vive demos. So it can be hard to try if you don't know anyone who owns one.

 

[Dexter]

The issue is pricing. [...] It'll take 5 years for the cost of headsets to come down

The issue isn't pricing, The Oculus Rift goes for $350-400 including everything you need to play. That's about the price of a PS4. Even the (normal) Vive is $500 in the upper price range. There's some Windows MR headsets (HP) and the PS VR HMD that go for as low as $200. A new iPhone or Android phone costs anywhere from $600-$800 and people pay it willingly. There's a point to be made about GPUs being expensive, but that's not valid for the PS4 for instance and would generally also be valid for high-end gaming, yet a lot of ressource intensive games on the PC sell millions.

 

[AN4RCHID]

Hold out for the Vive Pro if you can afford it. Having a wire hanging off your head is a drag. Otherwise the Oculus Rift is pretty nice and comfortable and you'll get those Zuckerberg exclusives.

 

[Shackleton]

The issue is pricing. [...] It'll take 5 years for the cost of headsets to come down

The issue isn't pricing, The Oculus Rift goes for $350-400 including everything you need to play. That's about the price of a PS4. Even the (normal) Vive is $500 in the upper price range. There's some Windows MR headsets (HP) and the PS VR HMD that go for as low as $200. A new iPhone or Android phone costs anywhere from $600-$800 and people pay it willingly. There's a point to be made about GPUs being expensive, but that's not valid for the PS4 for instance and would generally also be valid for high-end gaming, yet a lot of ressource intensive games on the PC sell millions.

The main issue is no-one knows how to sell VR to people who haven't actually tried it. All the adverts and promo material for it feature shots like this:

Wow, how cool it must be to have a box strapped to the front of your face! I can't wait to completely exclude the outside world, place my eyeballs 1 inch from a light source and look like a total muppet doing it! VR is something you try and are blown away by, but until you try it you think it's shit, like fantadomat . Again, there's a reason Facebook spent money setting up demo zones in shopping centres and the like- they knew people needed to try it to be sold on it. The problem was by trying it in public you also made yourself a figure of fun for people around, which put people off.

The hope is smartphones and standalone VR will be affordable enough to get people hooked into the basic VR experience, then they'll seek out higher value and better quality gear, but it's by no means certain to take off. PS4VR launched in a blaze of glory and sold really well. Where is it now? What great PS4 VR games have you seen recently? It's turning into the nintendo light gun, (not quite as bad as the power glove though!)

 

[Jigawatt]

So let's talk computer specs. Is the GTX 1080 worth the extra price over the 1070? How about a fast i7 over a fast i5?

I have no idea how you can check this (maybe just avoid cheap models?) but depending on how much USB traffic your wheel / hotas is generating you need to look out for USB contention issues on the motherboard, in particular if you go for a Rift + 3 sensors setup. Some motherboards simply can't hack it, and you can't add USB via external PCIe adaptor because it still all gets clogged up at the southbridge (learned this from bitter experience).

 

[Prime Junta]

Thanks Jigawatt. I'm too lazy to build my own rig anymore (and also prices for pre-built ones have gotten pretty competitive, it wouldn't even be much cheaper) so whichever one I'll get I will be sure to find reviews that assess performance for sims and VR.

I've been looking at the HP Omen 880, and it seems pretty nice -- highly configurable, easy to expand/upgrade, pretty good cooling. It's just silly how all these gaming towers have to look like they were designed by Emo Kylo Ren but eh.

 

[Jigawatt]

HP Omen 880

Down here in the antipodes I forget there's even such a thing as a branded pre-built PC. Here 'pre-built' means you still pick the parts but instead of getting 10 boxes in the mail the store puts it together for you which by definition is a waste of cash. Btw the PCs at my lab pictured above are powered by 970GTXs and have never had any issue (and I'd like to think with my research I push them pretty hard, well beyond normal games), so you're probably safe on current games with the 6GB 1060 or above. Going for 1070/80 or even waiting to next gen is really an exercise in future proofing.

 

[Dexter]

I'm too lazy to build my own rig anymore (and also prices for pre-built ones have gotten pretty competitive, it wouldn't even be much cheaper) so whichever one I'll get I will be sure to find reviews that assess performance for sims and VR.

They usually save money on things they don't advertise like Mainboard, PSU, RAM etc. so be careful there. Keep in mind you also need at least 3 USB 3.0 plugs for the Rift.

Btw the PCs at my lab pictured above are powered by 970GTXs and have never had any issue (and I'd like to think with my research I push them pretty hard, well beyond normal games), so you're probably safe on current games with the 6GB 1060 or above. Going for 1070/80 or even waiting to next gen is really an exercise in future proofing.

That's probably some of the worst advice so far. I don't know what you're doing in the lab, but I had a 970GTX before upgrading to a 1080GTX and it absolutely didn't run VR sufficiently well. Running games @4K or running them in VR are some of the most resource intensive/demanding tasks for a gaming PC, since VR usually has to run @90Hz/FPS, renders out twice (although there've been a lot of improvements there since the days of DK1/2) and benefits from using SuperSampling a lot, so it's generally good to get the best GPU you can afford at the moment: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/rift-vive-vr-general.109448/#post-5232401

He'll run into issues exactly in the games he's already stated he wants to play like Elite: Dangerous, Project Cars, X-Plane and Assetto Corsa even with a 1070, there are many threads around the Web with people trying to compromise by turning down their resolution, turning the settings down to Medium/Low etc. or making entire charts for "perfect settings with a 1070" and discussing the best compromises to be able to play them without judder:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-users-what-settings-are-you-running-at-in-VR
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcars/comments/71xsor/project_cars_2_vr_performance_headroom_chart/
https://www.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/6wxzo4/settings_for_pcars_to_get_90fps_with_a_1070/
https://forums.x-plane.org/index.ph...-native-vr-settingstweakshardware-discussion/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6XrWW5kU44
https://steamcommunity.com/app/244210/discussions/0/361798516962291840/
https://forum.virtualracing.org/showthread.php/100775-Assetto-Corsa-Virtual-Reality/page68
etc.

Not to say that if he ever intends to get the Vive Pro or anything above that it'll just exacerbate said issues already present for the current Oculus/Vive.

 

[Prime Junta]

Turns out a colleague of mine has a Rift and mostly plays Elite Dangerous and Project Cars 2 on it. He originally ran it on a 1070 but upgraded to a 1080 and now he's very happy with it. Since that's within my budget, that's most likely what I'll be going with.

 

[mbv123]

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

wouldn't u just be better off waiting like 4-5 years for 3rd or 4th generation of this crap when actual decent games porn are out and the tech isn't in beta?

 

[Prime Junta]

wouldn't u just be better off waiting like 4-5 years for 3rd or 4th generation of this crap when actual decent games porn are out and the tech isn't in beta?

I want to fly planes and drive cars, and as far as I can tell both the games and the tech are pretty damn good for that already.

 

[fantadomat]

wouldn't u just be better off waiting like 4-5 years for 3rd or 4th generation of this crap when actual decent games porn are out and the tech isn't in beta?

I want to fly planes and drive cars, and as far as I can tell both the games and the tech are pretty damn good for that already.

Get driving license.

 

[laclongquan]

bitch, plane license require actual flying sessions which should be expensive than those rig.

 

[Prime Junta]

bitch, plane license require actual flying sessions which should be expensive than those rig.

A pilot's license costs about three times as much as the rig. I could certainly afford that.

Trouble is, that's only the start. Aviation is an expensive and time-consuming hobby, and I already have a day job.

(Same applies to racing, or even the occasional track day. I enjoy driving but IRL I prefer touring to racing.)

 

[DeepOcean]

Right now, only 0,4% of steam users have VR. The biggest challenge is movement, the prevalence of motion sickness is very high. Even people that dont ever felt motion sickness, seek the mext vomit bag after 30 min of VR.

As a result, developers have to constrain movement but the gameplay of most VR games is very unapealing for most people because of that.

Valve is promissing full VR games in the future, dunno how will they solve this.

 

[Prime Junta]

Yeah I can't see how it can work really genuinely well for anything other than a sim where you're seated. I would assume motion sickness isn't as big a problem for that either as it will be similar to driving or flying, where the inner-ear and visual sensory inputs are confused anyway.

 

[DeepOcean]

Turns out a colleague of mine has a Rift and mostly plays Elite Dangerous and Project Cars 2 on it. He originally ran it on a 1070 but upgraded to a 1080 and now he's very happy with it. Since that's within my budget, that's most likely what I'll be going with.

Did you try VR for a good amount of time already? Dont waste your money without testing first if you are a lucky one having motion sickness.

 

[c2007]

Thanks. Based on my reading I've been leaning towards Oculus as well, so this pushes me a notch further that way. If the Vive Pro comes out soonish I will look at that too.

The CH Products stuff looks good. That brand rings a very vague bell, I've definitely come across it back in the day. It's pricey but not completely outrageous, I will take a close look at what they're offering. Looks like they have a yoke as well and claim that that and their pedals also work for racing sims which would be a definite plus.

Edit: holy shit how could I forget

I used to have this one, amazed they still make it, or one just like it: http://www.chproducts.com/Flightstick-Pro-v13-d-723.html

I remember my first CH Joystick....

 

[Prime Junta]

Did you try VR for a good amount of time already? Dont waste your money without testing first if you are a lucky one having motion sickness.

I have not, but I'm willing to take my chances. The numbers I've seen state that about 25-40% of people report VR sickness, many of those get over it after acclimatisation, and it's significantly less prevalent when seated. I'll let you know how it went.

 

[Dexter]

Right now, only 0,4% of steam users have VR. The biggest challenge is movement, the prevalence of motion sickness is very high. Even people that dont ever felt motion sickness, seek the mext vomit bag after 30 min of VR.

This is a widely overstated problem imo that was mostly experienced with the DK1/2 (and early VR tech decades before) in general without 6DOF tracking or even tracking of natural movement in a room like the Vive, since the tech wasn't quite there yet. From the several dozens of people I demoed it to, only like 3-4 ever experienced "VR sickness", my brother was one of them and he can use the final Vive and Oculus without much trouble, either they're much better or he got used to it or both. What I also found is that people who used to play fast-paced shooters, driving games and the likes on the PC and were used to fast movement on the screen were much less likely to experience any discomfort than people who never played a game before. Also I don't know of anyone that had to "vomit" because of it.

As a result, developers have to constrain movement but the gameplay of most VR games is very unapealing for most people because of that.

They mostly do that because they're stupid and got the idea that they have to "ease people in", since this was talked about a lot early on. I found that stick-based movement FPS shooters are some of the best experiences in VR and never had an issue playing stuff like Doom 3, Half Life 2 and similar even in the early days and with experimental support on the DK1. Many of the early AA games like Chronos and Edge of Nowhere that Oculus/Facebook paid for were also using 3rd person cameras where you're looking at a character from above and it's much less of an issue: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/rift-vive-vr-general.109448/#post-4611488

 

[Cyberarmy]

You need to try them a lot before buying. I had minor motion sickness problems before (Half Life 1 - CS days) but I kinda get used to it in years.
It came back with a vengence when I first try new Elite. Lost nearly a day and had to visit doctor.

 

[DeepOcean]

Did you try VR for a good amount of time already? Dont waste your money without testing first if you are a lucky one having motion sickness.

I have not, but I'm willing to take my chances. The numbers I've seen state that about 25-40% of people report VR sickness, many of those get over it after acclimatisation, and it's significantly less prevalent when seated. I'll let you know how it went.

Well, its your money, there are reports of people that cant play certain kinds of VR games and free flowing movement ones are the most provoking of motion sickness.

 

[Santander02]

Unlike the last big gimmick, 3D TV/Films

People keep repeating this, but like every 2nd movie runs only in 3D in the cinema nowadays, and every single one running in IMAX cinemas is 3D. Does stuff like Pacific Rim Uprising, Tomb Raider, Black Panther, Jumanji, Blade Runner 2049 etc. even still run in 2D?

And every other Blockbuster movie I get to watch in 3D on my 4K 3D TV, latest being Thor Ragnarok and Justice League. Funny thing, 3D movies also look a lot better in VR HMDs, since they replicate natural 3D a lot easier, since there's actually a separate render for both eyes but the resolution ain't quite there yet for movie watching. A VR HMD needs 2K per eye resolution to properly display even 1080p movies at full detail.

3D only accounts for about 20% of ticket sales, the movie industry is still pushing for it, but most people no longer care.