ELEX Pre-Release Thread

[Sykar]

Is G3 with the community patch worth it? Back in the day, when I saw it was developed 'Bethesda-style', I was turned off by it. The buggy reputation didn't help.

I hate Gothic 3, even with Community patch. Boring shit open world game play, doing the same crap over and over in every city, just doing it for either Orcs or Humans. Nonsensical story, no atmosphere.

 

[Semper]

Risen 3 was revealed only a few months before release, so I think it will still be quite a while before we see any kind of announcement from PB about their next game.

here's a german article about hoge's prototype "spacetime". there're not alot of details, and obviously nothing is set in stone and subject to change. to sum it up, his ideas are about a space exploration crpg (kinda), where the focus is on the player's ship and its upgrades/crew. first person gameplay is about flying around with your ship, contacting other races and hiking in the mountains of planets far far away... when exploring on foot you can take another member with you, whom you're choosing among the experts of your hired crew. he also wants to change how dialogues work. the usual question-answer-question-answer-rythm could also work as a cutscene, and is therefore too boring. no further details on that, besides an example of a captain who won't tell you about his lost socks, or that there's not much time left to deal (sounds kinda alpha protocol?!). the player char is fixed and has a name.

right now the project has no financier, but they hope to release in the mid of 2017.

this whole thing sounds way too overambitious for such a small studio. seems they're right on track to hit the bricks.

 

[Zombra]

hoge's prototype "spacetime"

Sounds pretty cool.

 

[toro]

here's a german article about hoge's prototype "spacetime". there're not alot of details, and obviously nothing is set in stone and subject to change. to sum it up, his ideas are about a space exploration crpg (kinda), where the focus is on the player's ship and its upgrades/crew. first person gameplay is about flying around with your ship, contacting other races and hiking in the mountains of planets far far away... when exploring on foot you can take another member with you, whom you're choosing among the experts of your hired crew. he also wants to change how dialogues work. the usual question-answer-question-answer-rythm could also work as a cutscene, and is therefore too boring. no further details on that, besides an example of a captain who won't tell you about his lost socks, or that there's not much time left to deal (sounds kinda alpha protocol?!). the player char is fixed and has a name.

right now the project has no financier, but they hope to release in the mid of 2017.

this whole thing sounds way too overambitious for such a small studio. seems they're right on track to hit the bricks.

FTL-clone!? Good luck financing that shit. Maybe this time they will manage to ruin their name completely.

Anyway, Piranha Bytes's communication with the community is abysmal. They act like autistic retards and only react on positive feedback.

Edit: Maybe this is a German thing. They cannot handle criticism, they are afraid of it.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

I hate Gothic 3, even with Community patch. Boring shit open world game play, doing the same crap over and over in every city, just doing it for either Orcs or Humans. Nonsensical story, no atmosphere.

Play Forsaken Gods and you'll develop a new appreciation for G3. Hate is too strong a word for G3. Play Forsaken Gods and revel in the depths of hatred the human soul is capable of sinking to.

Edit: Maybe this is a German thing. They cannot handle criticism, they are afraid of it.

Nah. The Hunish developers were probably too busy bayoneting French and Polish babies to read the forums. Anyway, Germans are immune to criticism, or emotion, as this docudrama of a day in the life of an average German illustrates:

 

[Gnidrologist]

I hate Gothic 3, even with Community patch. Boring shit open world game play, doing the same crap over and over in every city, just doing it for either Orcs or Humans. Nonsensical story, no atmosphere.

This. I don't see how a community patch could remedy this unless it adds quests, alters the main quest and completely alters all the dialogue (and even voice acting - that was superbly uninspired) in this game. I would rather go to another run of Morrowind than replay this zombie game, honestly.

Would be glad if someone, who has played G3 with all the community content tell me that this ''new'' game is a lot different than the vanilla one, because i certainly liked the visual setting it took place in. Would roam again.

 

[Metro]

This. I don't see how a community patch could remedy this unless it complete changes the atrocious combat.

 

[cvv]

This. I don't see how a community patch could remedy this unless it adds quests, alters the main quest and completely alters all the dialogue (and even voice acting - that was superbly uninspired) in this game.

What are you comparing all this to? G2? If so then I really don't get it.

There's no universe in the multiverse where the G2 main quest is brilliant while the G3 one is atrocious, where the G2 combat is brilliant and the G3 atrocious, where the dialogue and voiceacting of G2 are good and the ones in G3 bad. There's simply not that huge difference between those two. I could accept someone saying those things in G2 are better than G3. But to try to imply G2 is a heavenly mana and G3 turd sandwich is pure nerdy autism.

 

[Metro]

The melee combat in G1, G2, and Risen 1 is significantly different (and far superior) from the horribly floaty combat of G3. Are you kidding me here, bro?

 

[Shannow]

There's no universe in the multiverse where the G2 combat is brilliant and the G3 atrocious.

Actually there is. It's this universe.

Anyway:

Is G3 with the community patch worth it? Back in the day, when I saw it was developed 'Bethesda-style', I was turned off by it. The buggy reputation didn't help.

So, after getting some negative feedback:
G3 is a different beast than G1/2, and you can certainly see a Morrowind influence where the previous games had none. And if you really liked G1/2 combat like I did, you'll probably not like G3's. You might not like it either way (I avoided this by going magic early and abusing a certain magic feat.

Spoiler

You can get mana regeneration at the King's fortress. Needs some skill to get to early but --> Unlimited fireballs

)
Atmosphere and setting is typical Gothic-good as are the dialogues. (In German. I don't know about translation.) Plot is forgettable, but that's the case with all of them. However, the plot is the prequel to R1, if that interests you.
As a hiking simulator it's actually better than the previous games. There's a lot to do and most of it "makes sense/is fun". Graphics are significantly better. It was a great-looking game for its time, and given that 3D games haven't come all too far, it should still be decent now. (Haven't loaded it up in years, so I can't really judge. But graffix aren't that important anyway.)
The game did great things with its reputation system. (Though this can be gamed and broken. It can still be fun, either if you simply "play" naturally and thus not break it, or if you enjoy breaking it )
The music is great. Perhaps the best game-music I've encountered.

The game had high hardware-requirements at its time and was never completely optimized. With today's current hardware or even a PC that's a little long in the tooth, you should have few problems. However, I sometimes hear about stuttering on machnes that should have no problems. Seems to be an issue with certain hadware compositions/configurations. But it "seems" to be rare. Personally I didn't have more problems than with the other Gothics. (Which means a crash once in a while and some light stuttering if I moved around a lot and fast.)

I enjoyed G3 when I played it. It's probably a little too large for its own good. Leads to less focussed areas and more filler. You get to the point where nothing poses a real challenge far more early than in other Gothics. Because of this you might get the "last 3rd of a Gothic/PB game" feeling even earlier. Good for hiking, though. I like it a little better than R1 and less than G1/2. If you like those type of games in general, I'd recommend playing it. Since it should be very cheap now and even more patched than when I played it, I'd even go so far as to strongly recommend it.

/2cents

 

[Gnidrologist]

I wasn't even talking about combat, which was shit in G3, cvv.
My main point is that both first Gothic games had that ''community'' feeling. That you either belong to one camp or another, when you join. Also the main quest in both games are well fleshed out and concrete. I never got what exactly was my quest in G3. I dunno. Maybe that's a good thing.

Anyhow, G3 vanilla for me was even more boring than Oblitiron (think both games came out in aprox same time) and that tells something. Gothic 2 with Night of Raven addon is still the best fucking action-rpg to date. Risen1 came close if it only had more content and not another dry and boring endgame.

 

[cvv]

Anyhow, G3 vanilla for me was even more boring than Oblitiron

Well there you go. Why compare anything to the vanilla? That was clearly a buggy and unfinished mess. Whenever I comment about G3 I always add "properly updated". As such, G3 is a fantastic game.

The melee combat in G1, G2, and Risen 1 is significantly different (and far superior) from the horribly floaty combat of G3. Are you kidding me here, bro?

Have you played with the latest mods and with Alternative AI switched on? It's very close to the feel of G2 combat. Don't get me wrong, G2 combat is still somewhat better (more precise and predictable) but there's no way the difference between those two is the difference between brilliant and atrocious.

And the R1 combat is the best PB has ever done, ofc.

 

[adddeed]

Risen 3 is one of their best releases so far. Better than Risen 2 (which was great), and on par or better than Risen/Gothic (which were excellent).

 

[Metro]

Have you played with the latest mods and with Alternative AI switched on? It's very close to the feel of G2 combat. Don't get me wrong, G2 combat is still somewhat better (more precise and predictable) but there's no way the difference between those two is the difference between brilliant and atrocious.

It's not the AI, it's the physics. I played G3 with all the bells and whistles of the community patch... and yeah combat was bad.

 

[Backstabber]

Even with the community patch, G3's controls still feel weirdly floaty, it still lacks a dodge move, and the spell targeting acts really weird at times (specially during town liberations).

 

[Gnidrologist]

Well there you go. Why compare anything to the vanilla? That was clearly a buggy and unfinished mess. Whenever I comment about G3 I always add "properly updated". As such, G3 is a fantastic game.

I don't care about superficial ''fixes''. I don't even remember any game breaking bugs in vanilla. Maybe some minor glitches that bothered me for a minute or two and that's all. The stuff that sucks about G3 can't be fixed by user made patches. It's bland NPCs, boring dialogues, non existent C&C, idle storytelling. Every NPCis just a quest drone and all locations are filled with them. First two Gothic games were good in that the world was interesting and you wanted to know more about it. G3 is a single player MMO and even Morrowind is better at that, because it at least gives you a lot of sandbox to play around (crafting, spellmaking), while G# is just run to an NPC --- have quest --- complete quest --- run back and collect coins. Even iconic NPCs like Xardas, Diego, Lares etc. were absolutely boring and uninspired compared to previous games. Like they were put in there out of necessity. How would fan-made patches/mods fix that?

 

[Morkar Left]

Even with the community patch, G3's controls still feel weirdly floaty, it still lacks a dodge move, and the spell targeting acts really weird at times (specially during town liberations).

With a decent pc there is no floaty combat (which I had before). You can dodge and combat is actually more tactical than in G1/G2.
Different weapons are different useful against different enemies, you can parry normal attacks and you have to dodge heavy attacks, enemies counter your attacks with quick strikes, sometimes you better dodge an attack, sometimes you should just parry, you have different weapon styles you can choose from (sword'n'board, 2-handed, 2 weapon fighting)...

If you want your char to actually be the original veteran hero play on normal, if you want the original Gothic experience play on hard (and die against scavengers again).

I don't care about superficial ''fixes''. I don't even remember any game breaking bugs in vanilla. Maybe some minor glitches that bothered me for a minute or two and that's all. The stuff that sucks about G3 can't be fixed by user made patches. It's bland NPCs, boring dialogues, non existent C&C, idle storytelling. Every NPCis just a quest drone and all locations are filled with them. First two Gothic games were good in that the world was interesting and you wanted to know more about it. G3 is a single player MMO and even Morrowind is better at that, because it at least gives you a lot of sandbox to play around (crafting, spellmaking), while G# is just run to an NPC --- have quest --- complete quest --- run back and collect coins. Even iconic NPCs like Xardas, Diego, Lares etc. were absolutely boring and uninspired compared to previous games. Like they were put in there out of necessity. How would fan-made patches/mods fix that?

The mod compilation (all in the content mod) brings you better dialogues (with better explainations what's happening and why things are happening), more quests and actual c&c.

I wasn't even talking about combat, which was shit in G3, cvv.
My main point is that both first Gothic games had that ''community'' feeling. That you either belong to one camp or another, when you join. Also the main quest in both games are well fleshed out and concrete. I never got what exactly was my quest in G3. I dunno. Maybe that's a good thing.

It's a good thing. It's your job to find out what exactly happened. Mostly to find out if Xardas betrayed you (and humanity) and deciding for yourself which site you want to join.

Anyhow, G3 vanilla for me was even more boring than Oblitiron (think both games came out in aprox same time) and that tells something.

Ok, I get the feeling debating with you is futile.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Look, i haven't played G3 with fan made mods/patches. If they really fix not only bugs, but also boring cliche game play i will sing a different song. Few month from here i will try G3 with latest community patch.

 

[Tigranes]

If you find G3 too MMO-y, then community patch won't change that. If you were totally fucked off with the DRM making the game freeze every 60 seconds, saves that took longer than a teenager's orgasm, some of the balancing work in the melee combat mechanics, etc., then the patch should address all of your problems.

Basically if you suffered through a few hours of G3 at release thinking this looks decent, I wish I could play this IF ONLY THE GAME WOULD LET ME, your wishes have come true. If you were thinking for whatever reason that it is basically Oblivion lite or totally betrays everything about Gothic, then probably not, right?

G3 just holds a special place in my heart because one of the things you always want to do in an open world RPG is to have huge battles involving entire cities. Other than that, I think it's Gothicy enough to be a Gothic successor, just not as good as G1/2.

 

[CreamyBlood]

This topic has been beaten to death like everything else a million times on this forum but why not repeat what has already been said over and over?

If you really liked G2 Night of the Raven the closest thing to it is Risen 1. I thought it was a great game and even enjoyed the long dungeon slog at the end. I did however have to look up how to kill the end boss and still couldn't do it. I'm not a console person so maybe it's fun for some people. I simply watched the end killing on a youtube video and satisfied myself with that.

As to G3 Vanilla, it was unplayable for a lot of people when released. I was really pissed off. It wasn't a matter of tweaking drivers or configs, it was just fucked. I played one of the earlier Community Patches and it actually worked and was fun, for awhile. Then I got bored.

A couple years later I tried Community Patch 1.74 I believe. I have no idea why I remember that but I started fresh and tried it again. I lasted quite awhile longer, probably around 30 hours or so but got bored again. The game design is not really focused like G1/2/R2. It's more open world and I simply lose interest.

My best guess is that if you like Morrowind or Oblivion then you might like G3 even more or a little less. I personally only lasted maybe 20 hrs in Morrowind and about 15 in Oblivion before losing all motivation to continue. I just find those games incredibly dull. At first you're learning, exploring, discovering then it just seems to all go flat. I don't hate that type of game, I just don't think they're fun. For me, I lasted double the time of Oblivion but maybe that isn't saying much.

As to Risen 2, I remember the very first scene and wondered why a modern game looks like a console game. It must be the way they render textures or something, ports always have this Walmart look to it. But I got past that and immersed for awhile. As usual, you're learning, exploring, talking. And talking. For me it felt like a corridor of walking to charactor exposition to more and more dialouge. It almost had the Gothic 'flair' for conversation, but too much of it. Plus other aspects were dumbed down, combat was either easy or stupid.

I made it to the third or fourth island and again, just got bored. I'd just finished a huge long ass few hours talking to a bunch of people then had to follow someone down a corridor (valley) that had monster 1 on the left of these bushes or monster 2 on the right and I just didn't care anymore. I just didn't care.

It's almost like they completely killed the openness of G3 and overkilled on the corridor dialogue chain. But the writing, plot and story and actual gameplay wasn't enough to keep me up all night just wanting to turn the next page.

I think G2 Night of the Raven is a very interesting balance of many things. It's open world, but constrained in 'story' by 'chapters'. It also lets you roam, but pressures you to certain paths by opponents far beyond your capability although you are welcome to try (and sometimes get some good loot for it). It has a combat system that seems wonky at first but makes sense after awhile. The char progression is more what I like, when you level up, or get new armour, you feel like you earned it and are truely tougher. For me it got a lot of things right and I can't think of anything that compares too much. Maybe it was an accident in a lot of design desicions and gameplay mechanics coming together to make a whole that appeals so much to some of us.

Risen 1 is a pretty good game in itself, the design is a bit different but it also works, I think it's well worth playing. I have a consoletard Skyrim friend that is still coming over (after a year long break) to play a few hours a week. I love watching him swear out loud at the monitor. He's just not used to not knowing what the fuck he is doing and getting his ass kicked, but he keeps coming back.

As to Risen 3, I'm not even going to demo it. I don't give a shit, I feel burned by both PB and Deep Silver with Risen 2. Yeah, back to roots, I'll never know.

I think Jaesun is right, too many of the original team have left. Their goal is to float. In most of the interviews and small snippets from the current devs I've read over the last several years I get the impression that they don't even understand Gothic nor want to attempt to replicate it. PB died awhile ago.

I'll probably give G3 another go one day with whatever community patch is available at the time. That's all I have left of PB.

 

[Metro]

With a decent pc there is no floaty combat.

No amount of PC power is going to change the engine physics. The combat is floaty. There is no changing that. Unless you're saying a 770 is insufficient to appreciate the majesty of G3 combat. It's ass. Just stop.

 

[cvv]

This topic has been beaten to death like everything else a million times on this forum but why not repeat what has already been said over and over?

We say, iteration is a mother of wisdom. That's why Codex is so prestigious, respected and universally loved.

 

[Gnidrologist]

I made it to the third or fourth island and again, just got bored. I'd just finished a huge long ass few hours talking to a bunch of people then had to follow someone down a corridor (valley) that had monster 1 on the left of these bushes or monster 2 on the right and I just didn't care anymore. I just didn't care.

There were no ''islands'' in Risen. You were playing Risen 2, while thinking it's Risen 1. Congrats.

 

[Tigranes]

There were no ''islands'' in Risen. You were playing Risen 2, while thinking it's Risen 1. Congrats.

You quoted a bit where he's talking about Risen 2, and then thought he was talking about Risen 1 while thinking it was Risen 2.

Arse is you.

 

[Gnidrologist]

Yeah, i fucked up. Excuse me.