Deus Ex DX Ending Discussion

[Turtle-Zone 3000]

With regard to Helios, here's an idea they had for a hypothetical sequel to Invisible War following the Helios ending.

 

[Alphons]

Tong

Helios

Everett

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Dark Age is an impossible ending, because sooner or later the technology will be restored.

Agreed. That's the only reason why I didn't go with Tracer Tong's plan. I didn't even expect a dark age or any real problems to arise from it, only that it wouldn't last. Furthermore, you can always blow things up later as a technodiety if being an overmind doesn't work out.

 

[Arbaces]

It appears that I am in the minority for favoring the Illuminati ending. I'm incredulous that it's at the same popularity as a non-existent MJ12 ending, and I feel compelled to defend it. Joining the Illuminati is the most fitting conclusion for JC's unshakable faith in peaceful reform and enlightenment ideals. Those aspects of his character may fall to the wayside after the halfway point when most the conversations are exclusively about exposition and objectives, but they still shine through as late as the conversation with Helios in the Aquinas Hub. The other endings are harder to reconcile with JC's character. The Tong ending is pure anarchist terrorism, and the Helios ending presents a technocratic legalism which is only palatable to computer nerds. DeBeers proves Everett can't be trusted, but in comparison to the alternatives the Illuminati offers the most compelling chance to put things right by a return to the status quo.

It's interesting that only Tong's ending cutscene is presented without anything that might make the player doubt that they made the right choice. The conversation between JC and Everett echoes the opening cutscene, and Helios makes an ominous remark about "many that live in darkness that must be shown the way". Tong's narration is hilarious, but it's also exactly the idealism you signed up for. There's nothing to make you think about the suffering you will cause. I believe the ending's popularity is because of how retarded and cinematic it is. The bad guy is defeated, the good guy runs away from an explosion, and the world is saved. Even the epigraph is the most upbeat of the three. The tone feels at odds with the other endings and the rest of the game.

 

[Joggerino]

I'm impressed, the endings still hold up today, at least if you just think about them without actually watching the animations, heh.

Most likely we'll either be enslaved by the "Illuminati" or some technological dystopia and maybe the best we can hope for is to crash the whole thing to prevent that.

Deus Ex only becomes more and more relevant as time goes on, it's incredible.

 

[Joggerino]

 

[RNGsus]

I liked the ending where the mass relays are destroyed.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Helios ending is way overrated.

Merging with an AI is the science-fiction equivalent of Apotheosis
Of course it's going to be the most appealing one

Do people seriously believe that if you nuke internet the whole world would suddenly turn medieval?

That isn't not what Tong wants or even implies
Tong says he wants to larger goverments break into essentially city-states, as they operate on a scale that is easily understand by anyone - therefore making them easier to run and more transparent (i.e. harder to corrupt and abuse their populations)
And that this period of "darkness", where people live in their own "villages", is what's supposed to establish that

The thing is, there's no way that period last long enough for this process to be affective outside of large federalized states like the US and China (I know isn't federalized, but I have a suspicion that Tong reason for this "vision" is his desire to free his native city of Hong Kong)

Also of all the endings, Tong's is the only one you know for sure people will die if shit its the fan

Nobody, and this means nobody, knows what the fuck is going to happen should an AI achieve General Intelligence.

I know this is often the trope of sci-fi, but AI 's don't have free will (and will never have)
Unlike humans, they can never break out of their prime program. They can show agency on how to pursuit that main objective (as long it isn't restricted by other parameters they might have), but they can never choose to ignore/oppose it

This is why I find Helios to be easily one of the best AI characters in sci-fi, as it doesn't fall into this trope (leave to programmers to actually know what an AI is)

Helios is very acting only according to its prime function - which is as he states to: "administrate the world"

ultimately humanity would be free of techno-tyranny for a few centuries at least.

No fucking way it lasts more than 50 years
Even with the destruction of the Aquinas Hub and even if the death toll is massive, there's still a world full of scientists, engineers and old infrastructure to patch things up

The Illuminati ending is regressive - it's basically a decision to not really change anything, and this despite the game letting you see firsthand the kind of horrors this regime has unleashed upon humanity. And yeah, sure, the Illuminati will shut down the grey death and not go to Page's extremes, but in the end the world will still be under the thrall of a bunch of globohomo oligarchs that have proven themselves utterly inept in its management.

I don't think so, as this would be true assuming the Illuminati are just a lite version MJ12, when they are more the opposite

For one they are decentralised and never involve themselves directly (I think this is why Page was able to defeat them, but wasn't able to destroy them) - this is even shown in the ending where Everrett tells JC to only exercise power through influence
This coupled with the fact that they have no military force of their own, suggest the Illuminati's power is mostly financial and political in nature, all operated covertly
Shit they aren't even secular like MJ12, since they seem to very much follow some sort of gnostic mysticism

And overall the impression I got is that the Illuminati operate in much more "broad" manner, instead of fucking with goverments and people live's with a specific and direct intent

So yeah the Illuminati ending changes things. Instead of the world being the complete nightmare it is by 2050 (or even), it goes back to how things were when they were in power (essencially how life was in 90's, early 2000's)

One of the things that didn't make sense to me about the Illuminati ending, is just how they were expected to insert themselves into MJ12's chain of command, to use their resources.

By the the mid game you steal the templar's gold for them (that takes care of economic power)
Political power never went way, they still have centuries of secrets and social engineering, plus Everrett has is own personal echelon system
And by the end of the game you have:

1. secured Area 51 for them - that means at least 3 universal constructors, the Aquinas Hub that essencially controls all networked systems, and 1 super AI
2. effectively dismantled MJ12 as an organization - don't forget they were organized in a pyramid structure, where only the people at the top (Page and Simons) were the only two that knew the full scale and objective of their operation

 

[Baron Dupek]

 

[Skinwalker]

Becoming an AI "god" is vile necro, and the dark age is just flat-out retarded. I've always considered the Illuminati ending to be the real ending.

 

[Spukrian]

Helios ending is terrible... At best, end of freedom, at worst, total end of free will.

Tong ending is terrible... At best, humanity is set back a century, at worst millions will die.

Illuminati ending is bad, but probably the best of the three... nothing changes, society and humanity continues to gets worse with time... but maybe there is hope.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

In my first DX playthrough I went with the dark age ending, all guns blazing, no looking back. I'd do the same today tbh.

 

[Sweeper]

 

[Ol' Willy]

Helios ending is gently telegraphed to player as the best choice of action. Helios and its predecessor AIs will always contact you and often help you, it is clear that Helios is very interested in JC in particular.

When you enter Area 51, Paul will tell you that Helios is already taking things under control around the world, so it's not like it needs you. But Helios refuses to merge with Page and calls to JC specifically.

This closes the arc of JC, gives the resolution to the story, and potentially should prevent sequels (it didn't).

Tong ending wouldn't work as intended and promises a lot of damage all around, but could be a nice contrarian option.

Everett ending just plainly underwhelming, all of this to restore the status quo?

 

[NecroLord]

Helios ending is the promise of something utterly new, perhaps even potentially benevolent, or even dangerous. How did you play as JC? A complete scumbag and ruthless person? A relatively generous (giving credits to others) and helpful man?
Helios merges with JC's personality, so it could even lead to catastrophic results. An AI tyrant performing all worldwide governmental functions...
However, it is my favorite ending for the simple reason it promises something slightly better than Tong's radical pulling the plug of the worldwide communication network, or Everett's literal return to the status quo where Illuminati and its cronies conspire and direct worldwide affairs at the expense of the struggling common people.

 

[Jaedar]

Tong ending is terrible... At best, humanity is set back a century, at worst millions will die.

Millions? Try billions. It's a bit unclear just how much of the worlds infrastructure will crumble, but I would expect most high tech to fail fairly quickly, followed by mass starvation as global logistics break down. I used to pick this ending as a kid, but I think if you don't take what tong says at face value, and actually consider the likely consequences it's going to be worst disaster in history short term, and long term there's no real reason to believe the world won't end up with a new illuminati (it happened 100% of the times so far!).

Everett ending just plainly underwhelming, all of this to restore the status quo?

Remember than in DX canon the illuminati are canonically benevolent, their guidance is what created post WW2 peace and prosperity (iirc, I don't remember the exact dates when they are said to have come in to global power dominance). The shittyness of society in DX is because they got couped by MJ12. So it's retvrn to 1990s, not status quo.


Helios is trying to help humanity as best as it is able (it created peace in hong kong already). But it knows that it does not actually understand what humans want, and so wants to merge with a human to make sure it doesn't make bad mistakes. I think it says it prefers to merge with JC, but it is not 100% opposed to merging with Page, and prefers that to illuminati/tong endings. But a single ruler with nigh unlimited powers is pretty scary, as it really is a single point of failure before it's a boot stomping on a face, forever.

So my take on the endings is: Tong (flip the table and pray), Illuminati (low risk/low reward), Helios (Immanentize the eschaton).

 

[lightbane]

Remember than in DX canon the illuminati are canonically benevolent, their guidance is what created post WW2 peace and prosperity

IIRC, the current leader had the previous one hidden and letting him rot because he doesn't want to give up power, and there's also that hidden IA experiment, so IMO the Illus aren't trustworthy. If you care about the prequels, didn't the Illuminati produce the virus that makes the augmented need a special drug to not go crazy since the common man was gaining power too quickly for their liking?
Hellios ending is the best. Humanity has shown it can't govern itself, so we might as well as have a Digi-God Emperor to lead us.

 

[Jaedar]

IIRC, the current leader had the previous one hidden and letting him rot because he doesn't want to give up power, and there's also that hidden IA experiment, so IMO the Illus aren't trustworthy.

otoh, what does the common man care about such shadow wars, if it doesn't impact how they govern?

If you care about the prequels, didn't the Illuminati produce the virus that makes the augmented need a special drug to not go crazy since the common man was gaining power too quickly for their liking?

Iirc normal bodies reject mechanical augs if their immune systems aren't suppressed with a drug. I don't remember people going crazy from augs, was that from MD?
In either case, I would not consider the neu-ex games canon for the purposes of DX endings. They're made by different people, and they retcon some stuff from the original.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Helios is trying to help humanity as best as it is able (it created peace in hong kong already). But it knows that it does not actually understand what humans want, and so wants to merge with a human to make sure it doesn't make bad mistakes. I think it says it prefers to merge with JC, but it is not 100% opposed to merging with Page, and prefers that to illuminati/tong endings. But a single ruler with nigh unlimited powers is pretty scary, as it really is a single point of failure before it's a boot stomping on a face, forever.

During breakout sequence from Liberty Island, the AI will tell you that it needs either you or Paul. So it had it in the cards since then

I would say that merging with Paul seems like a better choice for AI, as Paul is more humane and he was the first to break from the system and did it on his own - unlike JC who was nudged by his brother

 

[Ol' Willy]

Thematically, the endings are simple - Tong symbolized the retrograde, going back; Everett status quo and not moving anywhere; Helios symbolizes the change and going forward

This is likewise clearly telegraphed to the player

 

[NecroLord]

Shame they cut the MJ-12 ending and the ability to side with them.
Wonder how things would've progressed...

 

[Alex]

As I see it, the dark age ending is the only one where you aren't basically joining up with the problem. I doubt it solves anything, but at least it doesn't make things actively worse.

 

[Jaedar]

Helios is trying to help humanity as best as it is able (it created peace in hong kong already). But it knows that it does not actually understand what humans want, and so wants to merge with a human to make sure it doesn't make bad mistakes. I think it says it prefers to merge with JC, but it is not 100% opposed to merging with Page, and prefers that to illuminati/tong endings. But a single ruler with nigh unlimited powers is pretty scary, as it really is a single point of failure before it's a boot stomping on a face, forever.

During breakout sequence from Liberty Island, the AI will tell you that it needs either you or Paul. So it had it in the cards since then

I would say that merging with Paul seems like a better choice for AI, as Paul is more humane and he was the first to break from the system and did it on his own - unlike JC who was nudged by his brother

That's daedalus though, not helios, helios doesn't exist until later. I don't remember what exactly daedalus says though.

As I see it, the dark age ending is the only one where you aren't basically joining up with the problem. I doubt it solves anything, but at least it doesn't make things actively worse.

Killing billions and setting technology back at least a century doesn't make things actively worse?

 

[lightbane]

otoh, what does the common man care about such shadow wars, if it doesn't impact how they govern?

Because the Illuminati are behind everything, and the discovery of the hidden AI hints that they would absolutely use AI even though how dangerous it is.

Iirc normal bodies reject mechanical augs if their immune systems aren't suppressed with a drug. I don't remember people going crazy from augs, was that from MD?

IIRC Jensen is the only one or one of the few that doesn't have an "aug limit" before he requires the wonder drug, and the creator of the augs makes everyone go crazy, because he was butthurt that he couldn't use them to heal his crippled leg. So the Illuminati having created the rejection somehow makes sense. Either way, the prequel is something else, yep.

Killing billions and setting technology back at least a century doesn't make things actively worse?

It's a chance to rebuild and make things better, allegedly. Not sure if JD would survive though, considering his hi-tech augs likely require expensive maintenance. It would take decades at minimum though.

 

[Jaedar]

It's a chance to rebuild and make things better, allegedly. Not sure if JD would survive though, considering his hi-tech augs likely require expensive maintenance. It would take decades at minimum though.

I don't think JC requires maintenance(beyond what any human needs like food and water). What makes his augs tick are nanobots (same nanobots that cause the plague), those probably maintain themselves.
I agree that it is a chance to fix things, but it's also a chance that it stays the same or gets worse.