Dungeon Rats - first impressions and general feedback

[Whisper]

Dagger+CS is strong build, but dagger builds don't need that much cs. The main problem with cs+nondagger is that Max cs-score is only about 100, in AoD I had 195 for example, which isn't enough. And if you don't have high enough critscore and can't crit then all investments in cs was useless.

Yes, even having 100 CS (10 in CS) wont let you reliably crit most enemies that you face once you get CS to 10.

Post above explained this in detail.

 

[Lurker King]

The interface is crappy, the combat system is obscure, most choices are deathtraps and enemies are poorly designed. Nerf the emperor fight, please.

 

[Whisper]

IN patch they fix CS problem, but not sure when patch arives.

 

[Emmanuel2]

IN patch they fix CS problem, but not sure when patch arives.

Where can one get patch previews? I'm really interested in how they dealt with the CS problem.

Also update on throwing triple crown solo, it's pretty much close to impossible .

 

[Lurker King]

Darth Roxor, I made the discovery of the century: Constructs can be easily killed with liquid fire! How awesome is that? In the second and third fight with the constructs in the ancient facility you can attract two of them and lock the door to avoid getting shot.

 

[Lurker King]

How do you guys used your blue and sky metal?

 

[Emmanuel2]

How do you guys used your blue and sky metal?

Assuming you have 8 or 10 in Crafting.

Blue until Emperor or, if using light weapons and have 10 Crafting, use power cell on forge near demon and make a weapon. After that, scavenge whatever sky metal there is and build armor.

 

[Lurker King]

But you can use some sky metal from the constructs in the other room, no?

 

[Fenix]

It is enough only for daggers I think?

 

[Emmanuel2]

But you can use some sky metal from the constructs in the other room, no?

Yep, the medical machine room fight has around 2-3 lb sky metal and that's what I was pertaining to since noone should skip that fight. It should be enough for the small/medium sized weapons.

 

[Lurker King]

I should be able to use poison with my crude crossbow.

 

[Elhoim]

I should be able to use poison with my crude crossbow.

Poison the ammo.

Unless you were planning to bash the enemies with it.

 

[Whisper]

I should be able to use poison with my crude crossbow.

Poison the ammo.

Unless you were planning to bash the enemies with it.

It was more convenient to poison bow/crossbow - when you could just change ammo mode and they stay poisoned.

 

[Whisper]

Also you cant poison some starter weapons for some weird reason, you cant poison Stone hammer (Marcus weapon), for example.

p.s.To be fair, now you can poison enemies and then use normal bolts, to save poison (but why would you, atm you have enough poison for all fights when you need it).

 

[Fenix]

I played another Ironman run, dodger-spearman, died in Enforcer fight.
But that's not a problem, it was my mistake, I won on next try.
What WAS a problem - I tried to fight further, and was stomped in construct fights.
Like I coudn't reliably win without reload, but that's okay - I feel I used wrong tactic.
But fight medmachine constructs is nearly impossible - I tried 10 times, and I'm not even close with recent changes to alchemy.
Like acid only melt 3 armor for steel construct, and 1 armor for sky metal construct.
So it is basically useless in last fight.
I mean I can do it but at the cost of all grenades and liquid fire.

Of cource dodge 10 spear 10 alchemy 10.

So if you have thoughts how to win that damn fight let me know.

 

[Whisper]

Maybe skip it? I did, saved my bombs for Emperor fight.

 

[Lurker King]

This poison thing is really weird, Elhoim. You can just right click on some weapons and select the option "use poison", while others, including ammo, you need to drag the poison over them and release the button. Change this, please.

 

[Emmanuel2]

I played another Ironman run, dodger-spearman, died in Enforcer fight.
But that's not a problem, it was my mistake, I won on next try.
What WAS a problem - I tried to fight further, and was stomped in construct fights.
Like I coudn't reliably win without reload, but that's okay - I feel I used wrong tactic.
But fight medmachine constructs is nearly impossible - I tried 10 times, and I'm not even close with recent changes to alchemy.
Like acid only melt 3 armor for steel construct, and 1 armor for sky metal construct.
So it is basically useless in last fight.
I mean I can do it but at the cost of all grenades and liquid fire.

Of cource dodge 10 spear 10 alchemy 10.

So if you have thoughts how to win that damn fight let me know.

The way I did it with my dagger/dodge build on ironman is that I used liquid fire to block movement so that only my front would get exposed. This would line the melee constructs up, just enough for them to get friendly fire from the ranged construct which could reliably damage them (like kill them in 3-4 shots at a seemingly good THC). I did this pre-update#2, though it worked back in both release and update#1.

This was (release version) and is still a problem for dodge builds and it's very apparent for those who can't kill fast enough. Daggers worked because they do stat damage reliably and hurt like hell without using too much AP while Hammers could knock shit down AND reduce DR. Spears were king when they had 100% interrupt and can do great damage just by sitting pretty in a corner but not anymore since the nerf.

Now that they buffed it, block looks very strong for early game and became much stronger in the late game where CS dominates against even against High CS defense (>150) according to Whisper.

 

[Whisper]

Also, block is not that reliable.

Enemies like Enforcer and Scaurus go though 150 block like its not there, 2 hits in row are not that rare and estimate chance to get hit is around 50%, i.e. every 2nd attack connects (on 150 block).
Which is dangerous since they crit often too. Enforcer crits for 25-30 dmg, for your knowledge.


In short, i want to see ironman runs after update 2. I do like changes, they make hardest difficulty really hard for solo unless you very carefully ration bombs/fires/neurostimulants/sharpen stones. You cant run out of them in Enforcer (or Emperor) fight.

 

[Emmanuel2]

Enemies like Enforcer and Scaurus go though 150 block like its not there, 2 hits in row are not that rare and estimate chance to get hit is around 50%, i.e. every 2nd attack connects (on 150 block).

I didn't mean the Defense Rating but the actual passive it gives. My first solo run non-ironman win had a pretty good time with block using minimal alchemy.

If what it is what it says on the changelog where the passive chance got buffed, then all the more reason to go for it rather than for dodge.

EDIT: For more clarification, if what you say is true that 150 has a 50% chance to hit, this means that Perfect block in pre-update#2 is 60 + 50 - 50 = 60. Which is still a whopping good amount of chance compared to nearly 50 percent for dodge without any form of reduction. So not only do you have a 50% chance to block using DR with your shield but you also have a 60% chance to not get damaged at all.

Now that update#2 buffed the perfect block chance, it seems pretty good against high CS/high THC enemies since perfect block is independent of Defense rating but their THC of which the Emperor is the only real threat.

 

[Fenix]

The problem is not in passive chance for spers, probkem is I can't hurt constructs with best spear availsble - Scaurus spear.
Sharpen stone doesn't help at all - first I need to tear through armor.
In last figtht it isn't possible.
Acid almpst useless now with its -3 to steel and -1 to sky metal constructs.

This would line the melee constructs up, just enough for them to get friendly fire from the ranged construct which could reliably damage them (like kill them in 3-4 shots at a seemingly good THC).

And how you did it?
Looks like now instead of shooting construct start to seek better position, I never saw it shoot in back his comrade and hit.

 

[Emmanuel2]

And how you did it?
Looks like now instead of shooting construct start to seek better position, I never saw it shoot in back his comrade and hit.

This was my first run in DR. It still worked in update#1 when I did the dagger-ironman, only much faster.

Spoiler

 

[agris]

The problem is not in passive chance for spers, probkem is I can't hurt constructs with best spear availsble - Scaurus spear.
Sharpen stone doesn't help at all - first I need to tear through armor.
In last figtht it isn't possible.
Acid almpst useless now with its -3 to steel and -1 to sky metal constructs.

This would line the melee constructs up, just enough for them to get friendly fire from the ranged construct which could reliably damage them (like kill them in 3-4 shots at a seemingly good THC).

And how you did it?
Looks like now instead of shooting construct start to seek better position, I never saw it shoot in back his comrade and hit.

Use a berserk potion and your interrupts will tear through them. That's how I beat it.

 

[Lurker King]

The problem is not in passive chance for spers, probkem is I can't hurt constructs with best spear availsble - Scaurus spear.

It's not the best spear in this particular context. You can use two-hand spears in this case and craft them to do more damage to the armor or bonus to CS. High CS, or high PER, can give you ridiculous bonus to aimed attacks. They work. Another option is a two-hand spear with berserk potion. Fast attacks wreck. A crafted two handed spear with four techniques can do substancial damage even without the potion with fast attacks. If you can't choose any of that, spam liquid fire and be happy.

 

[Elhoim]

What WAS a problem - I tried to fight further, and was stomped in construct fights.
...
So if you have thoughts how to win that damn fight let me know.

Constructs are now vulnerable to different status effects, so take that advantage.

Use a berserk potion and your interrupts will tear through them. That's how I beat it.

Not anymore. It was an unintended loophole, interrupt was never meant to be offensive.