Dragon's Dogma II - "They’re masterworks, all – you can’t go wrong"

[DJOGamer PT]

I see Modron has taken King Crispy place as most decorated poster...

 

[Modron]

I am but one of many: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/give-out-tags-more-liberally.148317/page-4

 

[Anonona]

Quite interesting, today a just saw an Ogre doing a new move. Party low level Mage + low level Sorcerer, so my damage was low, was very hard to knockdown the enemy and fight went for long. Suddenly the Ogre stars running searching for a rock, grabs it and uses it as a weapon until it breaks, increasing its damage exponentially. Didn't expected that.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

2 weeks later and DD2 already has nearly half of DD1 mods and almost 1/3 of its downloads
I think it's safe to assume DD2 will get into the top 20 most popular games on Nexus - it simply has higher potential for modding than any other Capcom game

We got some interesting shit since my last post on Monday:

• mod that replaces the Menu Theme with "Intro Free"
• mod that marks quest related NPC's
• mod that replaces almost every enemy in the game with Cycopls
• mod that allows the user to transmogify every item
• mod that halves every XP and Gold reward
• mod that makes ferrystone use infinite
• mod that allows for instant fast travel to set locations
• mod that allow the user to set equipment loadouts
• mod that removes the Stat growth limit
• a rebalancing of the Mage and Sorcerer's Vocations
• mod that removes the Dragonaids system!!!

Finally, and this one is aimed at mod creators rather than users, a REFramework script that enables the modding of character meshes

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Does leveling up vocations become a slow grind the higher your character's level is or does the speed remain the same? I really want that last mage augment, but I don't want to play as a mage lol.

 

[Shaki]

Does leveling up vocations become a slow grind the higher your character's level is or does the speed remain the same? I really want that last mage augment, but I don't want to play as a mage lol.

I'm 99% sure speed remains the same. That mage augment tho isn't that good, it's just 10% increase to stam regen rate, if you don't enjoy mage then idk if it's worth it.

https://i.imgur.com/oRbIbUO.png

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Does leveling up vocations become a slow grind the higher your character's level is or does the speed remain the same? I really want that last mage augment, but I don't want to play as a mage lol.

I'm 99% sure speed remains the same. That mage augment tho isn't that good, it's just 10% increase to stam regen rate, if you don't enjoy mage then idk if it's worth it.

https://i.imgur.com/oRbIbUO.png

It's smol but as far as I know it's the only way to increase stamina regen. Archer needs it bad because it's best skills rape the hell out of your stamina gauge.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Does leveling up vocations become a slow grind the higher your character's level is or does the speed remain the same? I really want that last mage augment, but I don't want to play as a mage lol.

If you're referring to ranks in vocations, rather than leveling, the amount of discipline points needed to gain a rank increases with each rank from rank 2 to the maximum rank 9, so it does take longest, all else being equal, to reach that final rank in a vocation. I would never recommend playing as a vocation just to obtain augments for use with other vocations, though, as opposed to remaining with a vocation for slightly longer in order to reach an augment requiring that final rank.

Can't find exact data for DD2, but here's a table for Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen.

Rank	† Basic Vocations	Warrior	Ranger	Sorcerer	Mystic Knight	Assassin	Magick Archer
1	0	0	0	0	0	0	0
2	500	500	500	600	800	800	650
3	1,500	1,500	1,500	2,100	2,600	2,600	2,300
4	3,500	3,500	3,500	4,800	5,600	5,600	5,100
5	6,500	7,000	6,650	8,800	10,200	10,200	9,400
6	10,500	11,800	11,150	14,200	16,600	16,600	15,300
7	15,500	18,300	17,150	21,200	25,100	25,100	23,000
8	21,500	26,600	24,650	30,200	36,100	36,100	32,900
9	29,000	37,600	34,150	42,200	50,600	50,600	46,100

 

[Carceri]

2 weeks later and DD2 already has nearly half of DD1 mods and almost 1/3 of its downloads
I think it's safe to assume DD2 will get into the top 20 most popular games on Nexus - it simply has higher potential for modding than any other Capcom game

We got some interesting shit since my last post on Monday:

• mod that replaces the Menu Theme with "Intro Free"
• mod that marks quest related NPC's
• mod that replaces almost every enemy in the game with Cycopls
• mod that allows the user to transmogify every item
• mod that halves every XP and Gold reward
• mod that makes ferrystone use infinite
• mod that allows for instant fast travel to set locations
• mod that allow the user to set equipment loadouts
• mod that removes the Stat growth limit
• a rebalancing of the Mage and Sorcerer's Vocations
• mod that removes the Dragonaids system!!!

Finally, and this one is aimed at mod creators rather than users, a REFramework script that enables the modding of character meshes

To add to the list:

Increase the retarded item stack limit

No idea why they set the stack limit so low. In the original game it was 999.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I switched to thief and am already missing my archer vocation. It does seem to level up at the same speed. I only switched to thief to

Spoiler

get a Medusa head

Sounds borderline impossible unless you yourself are playing a melee class.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Not a big fan of the thief class atm. It just feels button mashy, like oldschool God of War. As an archer combat felt far more strategic and you had to aim certain shots right. Could simply be that I picked the class while drunk and am YOLOing it. I'm switching right back to archer as soon as I finish me goal.

 

[Fedora Master]

Okay the game took an unexpected turn.
So as others have asked: What the fuck was that story?

Spoiler

Why all the setup with conspiracies in Vermund and Batthal when they end up going nowhere?

 

[Stoned Ape]

Had yesterday off so I now have about 10-12 hours in the game. Started as a Fighter because I want to get the sinew equivalent ability before I change to Warrior then Thief, and finally Mystic Spearhand when I unlock it.

I've done all of the quests I could find in the starter camp/village, travelled to Vermouth (or whatever Gran Soren is called now) and did the goblin mine clearing vocation unlock quest and the ox-cart courier quest. Walked back and forth between the village and capital killing stuff and now I'm at 15th level.

Have fought off two Griffins (took off a health bar then they flew away but I knocked a pinion off each of them) killed 3 cyclopes (including the one you automatically meet), and a minotaur. Ran away from an ogre because I got dogpiled by harpies, bandits, and goblins when I tried fighting it and my main pawn (a mage) got tossed off a cliff onto the opposite bank of a deep river so I couldn't recover her.

Overall I'm really enjoying it. Combat is less spammy, but I do miss not being able to ready 6 abilities, though moving the heal into core for the mage and a few skills into core for fighter has helped. I'm glad I waited for a patch before playing because I'm having no performance issues whatsoever (running a 4060 at 1080p on fixed 60fps, Ryzen 5600, 16 GB RAM) with most of the extra options in the graphics menu switched on. Even runs without dropping frames in the middle to the town.

I'm really enjoying the combat but currently I prefer the DDDA default button setup. I'm using controller and I don't like that they've switched the main skills from LB to RB and made the B button also trigger run. I also prefer the old menu system with use item triggered by Back and menu with Start. I'll probably get used to it but my muscle memory is strong and it's hard to re-program my fingers so I keep raising my shield when I want to use a skill. I might just mess around with trying to configure the controls if I can't et used to them.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

I thought the capital story stuff was good. Seems they stopped giving a fuck about the story during development. Maybe they expand on it with the rumored expansion? I doubt it. These games were never about storytelling. I just don't understand why they bothered in the first place if they were just gonna half ass it.

 

[Artyoan]

Had yesterday off so I now have about 10-12 hours in the game. Started as a Fighter because I want to get the sinew equivalent ability before I change to Warrior then Thief, and finally Mystic Spearhand when I unlock it.

I've done all of the quests I could find in the starter camp/village, travelled to Vermouth (or whatever Gran Soren is called now) and did the goblin mine clearing vocation unlock quest and the ox-cart courier quest. Walked back and forth between the village and capital killing stuff and now I'm at 15th level.

Have fought off two Griffins (took off a health bar then they flew away but I knocked a pinion off each of them) killed 3 cyclopes (including the one you automatically meat), and a minotaur. Ran away from an ogre because I got dogpiled by harpies, bandits, and goblins when I tried fighting it and my main pawn (a mage) got tossed off a cliff onto the opposite bank of a deep river so I couldn't recover her.

Overall I'm really enjoying it. Combat is less spammy, but I do miss not being able to ready 6 abilities, though moving the heal into core for the mage and a few skills into core for fighter has helped. I'm glad I waited for a patch before playing because I'm having no performance issues whatsoever (running a 4060 at 1080p on fixed 60fps, Ryzen 5600, 16 GB RAM) with most of the extra options in the graphics menu switched on. Even runs without dropping frames in the middle to the town.

I'm really enjoying the combat but currently I prefer the DDDA default button setup. I'm using controller and I don't like that they've switched the main skills from LB to RB and made the B button also trigger run. I also prefer the old menu system with use item triggered by Back and menu with Start. I'll probably get used to it but my muscle memory is strong and it's hard to re-program my fingers so I keep raising my shield when I want to use a skill. I might just mess around with trying to configure the controls if I can't et used to them.

There is an option somewhere in there to make the B button no longer trigger a run and instead just loots/hails. I turned that off and am now much safer around cliff edges.

 

[Dyet]

I thought the capital story stuff was good. Seems they stopped giving a fuck about the story during development. Maybe they expand on it with the rumored expansion? I doubt it. These games were never about storytelling. I just don't understand why they bothered in the first place if they were just gonna half ass it.

Most likely, a chunk of the main quest/story was cut due to time constraints.

 

[d1r]

 

[Mortmal]

Okay the game took an unexpected turn.
So as others have asked: What the fuck was that story?

Spoiler

Why all the setup with conspiracies in Vermund and Batthal when they end up going nowhere?

There's nothing more to it, just a cut story. The bare minimum would have been to develop Phaesos's character and motives. I've never seen something so blatantly cut from the story in any video game ever.

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Still a better story than anything Bethesda has wrote in 15 years.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Okay the game took an unexpected turn.
So as others have asked: What the fuck was that story?

Spoiler

Why all the setup with conspiracies in Vermund and Batthal when they end up going nowhere?

There's nothing more to it, just a cut story. The bare minimum would have been to develop Phaesos's character and motives. I've never seen something so blatantly cut from the story in any video game ever.

Alternatively...

Spoiler

Who gives a shit about the machinations of mortals? You're potentially god.

It's just swept away as being utterly irrelevant and beneath you as the game transitions from your lowly beginnings as a zero - literally a slave to a minor hero to possible royalty to a deity. Compare this with something like BECMI D&D progression.

 

[Anonona]

What the fuck was that story?

I'll try to summarize the best I can. A fair warning, this is just my understanding, so I probably got certain things wrong, but I think it is fairly close to what the dev intended. Also warning for wall of text

DD1, DD:DA and DD2 Spoilers

Apologize in advance, but I'll write this as if you hadn't play the first game for the sake of any reader that hasn't and to help me explain the plot better, as the game actually relies quite a bit on DD:DA for its story. I'll also use DD1 when talking about the base game, and DD:DA when talking about the expansion

In DD1 it is stablished that the universe of Dragon's Dogma is composed of infinite worlds, all trapped in the cycle that gives the name to the games. A dragon appears, wreaks havoc and chooses an Arisen. The Arisen then challenges the Dragon. If he loses or refuses to fight, that's it. But if he wins, then the path to the godly figure that watches over the cycle, the Seneschal, is open. If the Arisen dies fighting the Seneschal, he becomes a Dragon, seeking new Arisens. But if he wins, then the Seneschal grants the divine sword, the Godsbane, to the Arisen, who uses it to end the Seneschal's life, granting him rest and taking the mantle of the Seneschal until a new Arisen reaches him. Is important to note that there are multiple Arisens and Dragons in the infinity of worlds.

Another very important fact is that Will is power, be it in the form of courage or ambition, only those of greater will are able to become Arisen and rise to Seneschals, and those that not end up in defeat, losing their wills.

In DD1, you can ask the Seneschal if he is God and about the origin of the Dragon's Dogma. He answers that he isn't a god, despite his power, and he doesn't know if there is one, and that he doesn't know when the cycle started or why. In DD:DA, if you beat BBI for a second time, you will come to face what is known as the True Daimon, a being using the demonic body of Daimon, but with a dragon's face on its chest and a completely different and ominous personality. Once you kill it, a human figure will appear before disappearing through the Rift, which implies that, whatever the True Daimon was, is alive and has power over the Rift, which means it is incredibly powerful.

This misterious figure is the main antagonist of DD2, the master of the cycle and the closest to a god the setting has: the Pathfinder.

The Arisen of DD2 is able to break the cycle thanks to three key players: The Seneschal Rothais, the new Dragon, and Lord Phaesus

In DD2, we discover that we are actually in the first world of DD1, just uncountable cycles after the first game. In this cycle, the main players of said cycle, the Seneschal and the Dragon, are both tired of the world being trapped into this eternal repetition, and both rebel against the Pathfinder. The Seneschal, Rothais, first king of Vermund, has been the Seneschal for a long time now, killing every Arisen that has come his way instead of testing them, refusing to do his duty as keeper of the cycle or let someone else take the throne. For his part, the Dragon, which was stablished in DD1 and DD:DA to be unable to control its actions, still has a mind of his own and now is playing his role half-heartly, instead trying to make the Arisen see the true of the Dragon's Dogma and break the cycle instead of perpetuating (which is what his speech when you are on his back is all about and why he says "You are too late" when you arrive at the battlefield, as he wanted to avoid the fight as it would perpetuate the cycle).

As for Lord Phaesus, is relevant to answer the next question:

Why all the setup with conspiracies in Vermund and Batthal when they end up going nowhere?

The thing about the story is that the conspiracies in Vermund aren't actually the meat of the plot. Disa's scheming is, for the most part, irrelevant, even if it is our main motivation to regain our throne for most of the story. The point of almost all main quest in Vermund's, and even some sidequest's, is to learn about Lord Phaesus, the secondary antagonist, the real mastermind behind the first half of the plot and probably both the real "hero" of the pre postgame of the story and one of the main agents that allows for the cycle to be broken. Doing quest you learn that he is in cohots with Disa, he is the man that granted her the curse that made you amnesiac, he has been experimenting on the populations of the Slums, kidnaping pawns and even sent spies to monitor your activities. This is because Phaesus main goal is to break the cycle, and the only reason he cooperated with Disa, who on her own probably wouldn't have been able to stop you, was to prevent you from assuming the role of Sovran, seek the Dragon and continue the cycle anew before he was able to devise a means to control the Dragon to stop the destruction and put an end to the Dragon's Dogma.

For most of the story, we are actually playing under the Pathfinder hands, who wants us to regain the throne and continue the cycle, unaware of this very fact. We are technically speaking the "bad guys" of the first half of the game, just another pawn of the cycle.

Phaesus would fail in his attempt to control the Dragon despite all his planning and the crimes he committed, yet his effort weren't pointless. It is due to his intervention, by derailing the cycle so badly that the Pathfinder is forced to intercede, that the cycle is finally broken even if it isn't how he envisioned it. Because the Arisen has loss his memory and a false Sovran was in its place, the Pathfinder had to guide us and try to fix the cycle as best he could. He was forced to take the risk of us meeting the Seneschal Rothais and he granting us the Godsbane, which we would require to persue Phaesus and reach the top of the Moonlight Tower, were our confrontation with the Dragon would begin. But is due to us having the Godsbane before even defeating the Dragon or becoming Seneschal that allows us to break the cycle. Also it helps that the three of them drill into our heads that the cycle must be broken, which is the reason we persue the Pathfinder even after becoming Sovran, as it means we are not happy with just playing our role either.

After doing so, the Pathfinder is going to destroy the world and start the cycle anew. If we die and fail, he would punish us by trapping us in the next cycle in the place of the old man, unable to do anything but watch as the cycle continue. We suceed in stopping the end of the world, which forces the Pathfinder to take matters into hands and shows his true form: that of the real Dragon (which has the same face as that of the True Daimon back in DD:DA). He explains that the world and the dragon were born from nothingness, and that the cycle was created for fear of the world returning to nothingness eventually, as the cycle would be the fuel of its existence and the reason for it existing. The Arisen was created as a mean to perpetuate the cycle and the counterpart of the Dragon, and the Pawns, born from nothingness too, were there to aid the Arisen. At the end of the game our pawn becomes a small Dragon as a fail safe for the cycle, as it had lost its role and now was supposed to aid the Pathfinder, but due to our greater will granting them a will of their own they still aid us. Once the Pathfinder dies, they cycle is truly broken and the world is free, even if the future is uncertain.*

Some extra stuff:

*This last part is the one I'm most unsure about. I have to rewatch the ending. There is the implication that an existential being known as the Greater Will may exist and was the one that stablished the role of the Arisen, but I don't quite remember. I may change it if I learn something new.

What's the deal with the Gigantus? Supposedly, it's role is to correct the cycle when the Dragon isn't playing its role right, which explains why it appears as the Dragon is doing its utmost to break the cycle. How it would correct the cycle, I don't fucking now. I'm pretty sure it wasn't very well thought out and they just wanted the set piece.

The Crazy old man in the coastal village is probably the only character that knows whats up and changes his dialogue through the game explaining things to come. He also is an Arisen, he has the scar on his chest.

Why does the Pathfinder send us back to the Dragon's fight if he wanted us to continue the cycle? The meta reason is that the developers wanted to grant the players a chance to unlock the True Ending their first time and also help them figure out what they are supposed to do. From a narrative standpoint, by persuing him, we are already trying to break the cycle, and in an attempt to show us the futility of such thing, he is trapping us in a loop until we give up. Sure, there is the risk of the Godsbane, but if we are persuing him them his plan is fucked anyway so he may as well try to trick us into giving up.

While the story isn't really anything amazing, and I think it probably has some plot holes, what makes it hard to understand is that is told quite badly and requires players to actually had played DD:DA to understand it, as well as certain translation issues (for example, they don't call Rothais the Seneschal, just king, due to a literal translation of his japanese title and because they neglected to use the same terms established in DD1

Also yes, it probably was rushed and cut in many places. And also I probably got certain things wrong, sorry there.

tl:dr of spoiler above

Disa's plot is irrelevant, a red herring. What is important is Lord Phaesus, who is the true mastermind of the conspiracies and the "hero" of the first half of the story. He, the Seneschal Rothais and even the Dragon wish to break the cycle, and is thanks to them that the new Arisen is able to do so. All the plot of Vermund and Batahl is really about them setting the scenery to do so. The Pathfinder is the true master of the cycle that was hinted at in DD1 and the True Daimon in DD:DA, and his form is that of the real Dragon. The cycle was created for fear of the world returning to nothingness whence it came. With the death of the Pathfinder the world is free once and for all of the cycle, even if the future is uncertain.

Also speak with the crazy old man and, yes, the story probably got fucked by being cut, rushed and mistranslated.

edit: fixed an instance of calling the "Godsbane" "Dragonsbane"

 

[H. P. Lovecraft's Cat]

Alternatively...

Spoiler

Who gives a shit about the machinations of mortals? You're potentially god.

It's just swept away as being utterly irrelevant and beneath you as the game transitions from your lowly beginnings as a zero - literally a slave to a minor hero to possible royalty to a deity. Compare this with something like BECMI D&D progression.

When you put it like that it works pretty damn good.

 

[Crayll]

spoilers

spoilers

Pretty much agree with all this, but how do you feel about the ending of DD2 being a return to the cycles established in DD1 instead of breaking them entirely? It seems like you're in a degraded cycle due to Rothais in DD2, and while the Pathfinder has tried to kill him in the past, if you get the Sovran ending it doesn't look like the Pathfinder has much interest in correcting the cycle anymore since you just sit on the throne and don't end up becoming a new Seneschal.

Interesting point with True Daimon compared to the Pathfinder's dragon form, I hadn't made that connection. I can't remember whether Daimon and True Daimon's motivations matched up, but Daimon was definitely trying to throw a wrench in the regular cycle process.

 

[Dyet]

DD1, DD:DA and DD2 Spoilers

In DD:DA, if you beat BBI for a second time, you will come to face what is known as the True Daimon, a being using the demonic body of Daimon, but with a dragon's face on its chest and a completely different and ominous personality. Once you kill it, a human figure will appear before disappearing through the Rift, which implies that, whatever the True Daimon was, is alive and has power over the Rift, which means it is incredibly powerful.

This misterious figure is the main antagonist of DD2, the master of the cycle and the closest to a god the setting has: the Pathfinder.

After doing so, the Pathfinder is going to destroy the world and start the cycle anew. If we die and fail, he would punish us by trapping us in the next cycle in the place of the old man, unable to do anything but watch as the cycle continue. We suceed in stopping the end of the world, which forces the Pathfinder to take matters into hands and shows his true form: that of the real Dragon (which has the same face as that of the True Daimon back in DD:DA).

Spoiler

I think your summary is good, but there's something I'm not sure about this part about how DD2 ties into BBI. I haven't played DDDA in a while, but wasn't Daimon trying to undermine the cycle by trapping/killing Arisen who come to BBI? If awakened Daimon was the Pathfinder puppeteering Daimon/using him as a vessel, why would he even fight the DDDA Arisen? If anything, Daimon's death would be something that serves his interests, no?

 

[Anonona]

Crayll

Pretty much agree with all this, but how do you feel about the ending of DD2 being a return to the cycles established in DD1 instead of breaking them entirely? It seems like you're in a degraded cycle due to Rothais in DD2, and while the Pathfinder has tried to kill him in the past, if you get the Sovran ending it doesn't look like the Pathfinder has much interest in correcting the cycle anymore since you just sit on the throne and don't end up becoming a new Seneschal.

Shit, I didn't think about it being a false cycle, I assumed it was just "THE" cycle, so I though we had finally break it. I like the idea of breaking a false cycle less than breaking the real one, but it may be what they were going from, as the old man does say we live in a false world. I just thought that the cycle itself is what he was refering to, not a fake cycle. I guess that either someone smarter than me or the devs may be able to confirm it. Also I didn't see the "bad ending", I assumed that either you eventually go after the Seneschal, as if you talk with the Pathfinder he ask if you are persuing him to obtain more power and rule over the world, and says that you will have to figure out that path by yourself, which seems to be referring to killing the Seneschal and taking the role. Or he just waits until you die of old age, after all you have your hearth and therefore are mortal again, before restarting the cycle from scratch.

Dyet

I think your summary is good, but there's something I'm not sure about this part about how DD2 ties into BBI. I haven't played DDDA in a while, but wasn't Daimon trying to undermine the cycle by trapping/killing Arisen who come to BBI? If awakened Daimon was the Pathfinder puppeteering Daimon/using him as a vessel, why would he even fight the DDDA Arisen? If anything, Daimon's death would be something that suits him, no?

That is a good question. If he is really the Pathfinder, I think the reason he is there is pretty much the same as Xemnas in KH1: is just teasing from the developers for the next game. Now, plotwise, I'm not quite sure, and is the one thing that doesn't quite fit. Specially because he says things like "Dare you look into the truth?", which feels like the opposite of what Pathfinder would do. I would havet to look deeper into it.

Other possibilty is that it is not the Pathfinder. In that case, then it may be the rebellious Dragon from DD2, which would kind of fit, but I don't think the Dragon should be able to do that, or another entity enterely that we don't know about, perhaps a new character for the possible DD2's expansion.