Capcom Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen

[Grunker]

I've reached a bit down into BBI (level 58), and from a pretty balanced experience I suddenly deal no damage at all (I killed the Gazer and after that a cockatrice and a minotaur, now I'm at some basic ass fire saurians that are impervious to damage). I read online this is due to how BBI damage thresholds work, but my question is: how to get around it? "Gear grinding" seems to be through tedious means like re-running single segments of the dungeons or even worse measures like chest save scumming and, well, fuck that. Do I just have to bite the bullet and grind a shitton of levels in areas I've already played through?

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

BBI was meant to be explored in tiers like that. It's like those tower dungeons from Baldur's Gate, nothing keeps you from doing it, but you have to be really tough to go through it all at once.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I've reached a bit down into BBI (level 58), and from a pretty balanced experience I suddenly deal no damage at all (I killed the Gazer and after that a cockatrice and a minotaur, now I'm at some basic ass fire saurians that are impervious to damage). I read online this is due to how BBI damage thresholds work, but my question is: how to get around it? "Gear grinding" seems to be through tedious means like re-running single segments of the dungeons or even worse measures like chest save scumming and, well, fuck that. Do I just have to bite the bullet and grind a shitton of levels in areas I've already played through?

Those burning saurians are tough. You can probably kill them if you find the higher-powered ice grimoires or use Throwblasts/Blast Arrows.

Which point of the main quest are you at so far? If you've reached the post-game content it might be worth looking for some more powerful items in there. The weapons you're given for rewards after the main questline ends are more powerful than the Bitterblack Tier 1 weapons.

There's always the option of restarting the game on Hard Mode and grabbing a couple of under-levelled support pawns (25 levels behind your main character) to speed your level grinding. Once you're around level 80 you can get through the first part of BBI fast enough that it doesn't feel much of a chore.

 

[Grunker]

I've reached a bit down into BBI (level 58), and from a pretty balanced experience I suddenly deal no damage at all (I killed the Gazer and after that a cockatrice and a minotaur, now I'm at some basic ass fire saurians that are impervious to damage). I read online this is due to how BBI damage thresholds work, but my question is: how to get around it? "Gear grinding" seems to be through tedious means like re-running single segments of the dungeons or even worse measures like chest save scumming and, well, fuck that. Do I just have to bite the bullet and grind a shitton of levels in areas I've already played through?

Those burning saurians are tough. You can probably kill them if you find the higher-powered ice grimoires or use Throwblasts/Blast Arrows.

Which point of the main quest are you at so far? If you've reached the post-game content it might be worth looking for some more powerful items in there. The weapons you're given for rewards after the main questline ends are more powerful than the Bitterblack Tier 1 weapons.

There's always the option of restarting the game on Hard Mode and grabbing a couple of under-levelled support pawns (25 levels behind your main character) to speed your level grinding. Once you're around level 80 you can get through the first part of BBI fast enough that it doesn't feel much of a chore.

I’m not interested enough to restart the game. Unfortunately I had no idea about the Grigori drop, so I finished that fight with Warrior, but I’m maining Mystic Knight (i.e. I can’t use that weapon).

BBI was meant to be explored in tiers like that. It's like those tower dungeons from Baldur's Gate, nothing keeps you from doing it, but you have to be really tough to go through it all at once.

That doesn’t really answer my question, though. It’s also not like Baldur’s Gate if I have to replay segments in the rest of the game, which it sounds like I should?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I’m not interested enough to restart the game. Unfortunately I had no idea about the Grigori drop, so I finished that fight with Warrior, but I’m maining Mystic Knight (i.e. I can’t use that weapon).

If you proceeded to Bitterblack Isle after the Dragon, rather than exploring the Everfall, then you missed the opportunity to purchase a Carnation sword or Dragon's Presence hammer from the merchants Joye and Delec, who hang out in particular levels of the Everfall (it's also possible to get lucky and find these weapons in Everfall chests). Though you really want to obtain more powerful weapons by finding and purifying the Bitterblack Weapon Level 2 (and later Level 3) treasures.

That doesn’t really answer my question, though. It’s also not like Baldur’s Gate if I have to replay segments in the rest of the game, which it sounds like I should?

You shouldn't need to "replay segments", but you might consider dragonforging gear by fighting Cursed Dragons in the area where Barroch first appears (Duskmoon Tower); they can be summoned by dropping Rancid Bait Meat, which can be purchased from Barroch after completing the quest Eyes of the Deep.

 

[Grunker]

I’ve done Everfall and collected the 20 Wakestones. Haven’t turned them in though. That gear sounds promising, I’ll go back and check if I can find it?

I’d like Bitterblack Gear but it sounds like the only way to get it is to run the same segments of BBI over and over?

All my gear is dragonforged.

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

I’ve done Everfall and collected the 20 Wakestones. Haven’t turned them in though. That gear sounds promising, I’ll go back and check if I can find it?

I’d like Bitterblack Gear but it sounds like the only way to get it is to run the same segments of BBI over and over?

All my gear is dragonforged.

Turning in the 20 Wakestones will propel you to the end of the game; which I would actually recommend experiencing earlier, rather than waiting until you've completed Bitterblack Isle, but you should copy your save game first and then restore it afterward, to save you the trouble of continuing in New Game Plus and having to redo whatever parts of Bitterblack Isle you've already finished.

Joye in the Chamber of Remorse sells the Carnation sword, while Delec in the Chamber of Estrangement sells the Dragon's Presence mace. No sense in wasting time randomly entering Everfall levels rather than falling to those specific ones.

You'll find random Bitterblack Isle treasures which can be "purified" by Olra at the entrance. There's a bit of a trick to improving the chances of obtaining useful equipment.

I don't recall ever having difficulty with the pyre saurians, and I'm not at all clear why you would experience a damage decline there. However, the boss of the second set of zones is a bit of a test of damage output, so it's preferable to have better, dragonforged weapons by the time you fight him.

 

[Grunker]

Thanks, that’s useful advice. I would really like to not do the trick you’re talking about or similar tediousness, but could definitely go to Everfall.

I’m pretty sure what I’m experiencing with the pyre saurians is the BBI damage threshold thingy.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Honestly, I think the BBI item and Purification system in this game is the most degenerate design decision in this game. Just RNG bullshit grinding to get to gear that lets you grind for more of the gear you need to complete an objective and get a piece of gear. Even if you savescum when opening chests it takes dozens of boss runs to complete the final set due to the order of purification items being set and there being a rare and non-rare version of the Tier 3 gear.

Even grinding Tier 2 armour is horrible due to there being a pool of non-vocation specific gear which is sometimes given instead of vocation only armour, even if you do the Arisen/Pawn vocation change trick.

Disgusting.

 

[Grunker]

Honestly, I think the BBI item and Purification system in this game is the most degenerate design decision in this game. Just RNG bullshit grinding to get to gear that lets you grind for more of the gear you need to complete an objective and get a piece of gear. Even if you savescum when opening chests it takes dozens of boss runs to complete the final set due to the order of purification items being set and there being a rare and non-rare version of the Tier 3 gear.

Even grinding Tier 2 armour is horrible due to there being a pool of non-vocation specific gear which is sometimes given instead of vocation only armour, even if you do the Arisen/Pawn vocation change trick.

Disgusting.

This was my fear. I might just finish the postgame and call it a game. I don't need or desire a complete set of gear, I just want to be able to complete the content once.

 

[Stoned Ape]

This was my fear. I might just finish the postgame and call it a game. I don't need or desire a complete set of gear, I just want to be able to complete the content once.

One of the other things about Dragon's Dogma 2 I prefer is that there is no grinding for gear, only for upgrade items which are (with a couple of exceptions) easily found if you just explore the map and fight creatures.

Additionally there are normally Pawn Quests you can find to get the remaining couple of difficult to locate items for the cost of a Ferrystone or two if you search online for the ID of the pawns who offer them.

 

[Grunker]

This was my fear. I might just finish the postgame and call it a game. I don't need or desire a complete set of gear, I just want to be able to complete the content once.

One of the other things about Dragon's Dogma 2 I prefer is that there is no grinding for gear, only for upgrade items which are (with a couple of exceptions) easily found if you just explore the map and fight creatures.

Additionally there are normally Pawn Quests you can find to get the remaining couple of difficult to locate items for the cost of a Ferrystone or two if you search online for the ID of the pawns who offer them.

I'm probably going to hold out for some sort of ultimate edition before I play it, but my interest in it was why I played this one.

And I gotta say, it's a bit frustrating to play at times. It's like, the game can be so much fun, but sometimes it just puts its hand out and says "nope, don't have that fun right here right now"

 

[Damned Registrations]

Getting the hybrid weapons in bbi is an extra pain because you also get chances for pure mage or warrior/strider gear cluttering the drop pool. It's a terrible design. That said, go grab the pile of throwblasts in the room before the gazer. They respawn iirc. And will hurt anything. Also, spam the conquerors periapts. They make all the difference.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I'm probably going to hold out for some sort of ultimate edition before I play it, but my interest in it was why I played this one.

And I gotta say, it's a bit frustrating to play at times. It's like, the game can be so much fun, but sometimes it just puts its hand out and says "nope, don't have that fun right here right now"

DD2 is far more forgiving with damage thresholds so if you're good enough you can beat pretty much anything without having to grind at all so there are fewer roadblocks to just enjoying the game.

That is a two-edged sword though, because if you're good at the game and have decent reflexes it's not as challenging as its predecessor and there is nowhere near as much tension as you feel exploring BBI (except for possibly during the DD2 post game to a degree, or a couple of the high level caves hidden near the starting areas).

DD2 is generally more user-friendly and 'streamlined' in it's design, but it is entirely possible that the expansion will increase the difficulty of the game considerably, along with adding more grindy mechanics. Japanese players (particularly the more hardcore fan) seem to prefer to have stuff to mindlessly grind for.

 

[Grunker]

Is the damage threshold the reason for the tension though? I felt tension when I fought the Cockatrice and that dragon on the coast. I didn't feel it when I met the damage threshold, that might as well have been a physical block. They didn't pose a threat at all, I just couldn't deal damage.

I was actually quite concerned around level 30-40 about difficulty because I started to pupstomp everything, so my initial experience with BBI was very pleasant as I had to pay attention again. That level of "you can do this but you gotta play it right" was very enjoyable. The hard block less so.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Is the damage threshold the reason for the tension though? I felt tension when I fought the Cockatrice and that dragon on the coast. I didn't feel it when I met the damage threshold, that might as well have been a physical block. They didn't pose a threat at all, I just couldn't deal damage.

I was actually quite concerned around level 30-40 about difficulty because I started to pupstomp everything, so my initial experience with BBI was very pleasant as I had to pay attention again. That level of "you can do this but you gotta play it right" was very enjoyable. The hard block less so.

I remember running from Death the first time I met it on BBI, and similarly fleeing after being ambushed by a Garm that I was virtually unable to damage it while it could kill me with one hit (Which I then used a Wakestone for and it killed me again as soon as I got up). That was the sort of tension I meant really, they just happened to be pretty much impossible to hurt but also cause instant death or overwhelming damage.

DD2 doesn't really have those 'wall' enemies, it's difficulty comes from mobs unbalancing you by hitting you in the back then piling in on you, or throwing you off a cliff, or a boss with a move set that is a bad match-up for your character, or some kind of dogplie by a group of different mobs who have abilities that synergise well with each other. I don't get the 'I have to run away from here, I'm too weak' vibe as often while playing it, and if I play carefully I can stop myself having to be in situations where I might die. The problem is getting overconfident and ending up over my head when a couple of things go wrong and problems start to escalate beyond my control. At that point it's normally too late to easily run away.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Another example of the pawn AI in this game. My party are standing in the Rotunda of Dread on the wall with 2 prisoner gorecyclopes in the arena. I killed the corrupted pawn sorcerers with long range attacks. The cyclopes can't reach us on the ledge and we can target them freely with spells/long range abilities. Everything is going fine and then my Mage and Sorcerer decide to jump off the wall and fight them in the arena, getting stomped to death in about 10 seconds and there is no way for me to revive them without dying myself. Soon after my Strider pawn follows. Both of the pawn casters are Utalitarian/Medicant. Pawns in DDDA can be as thick as mince regardless of their inclination and enemy knowledge.

I kill both the cyclopes alone while the pawns bleed out on the floor. It takes me about 20 minutes because stamina takes ages to recover and no way in hell am I wasting stamina regen items when I'm in no danger.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Your pawns were calling you a cuck for not engaging like a man and they wanted no part of it. Not even the dress wearers.

 

[Stoned Ape]

I think I'm pretty much over the difficulty curve now at Level 150 and unless I play recklessly I don't think there's much that can challenge my character left in the game. I'm on Hard Mode and have cleared the double cursed dragon and multiple siren fight (all 3 of my pawns kept dying and I had to spend half my time running between them to pick them up) but I didn't really feel like I was in danger.

Maybe I should swap away from Strider back to Ranger or Magick Archer for a bit. I prefer to play melee characters in most games but in BBI I just don't find it enjoyable without a ranged weapon, there are too many enemies that spend too much of their time off the ground and out of reach.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Magick Archer is at least as broken if not more so than Strider. If you go back to Ranger, don't use blast arrows.

 

[gabel]

Level 200 Assassin with rusted daggers and bow is fun.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Level 200 Assassin with rusted daggers and bow is fun.

In the end I decided to play Assassin mainly using sword and bow. I've played a lot of dagger/bow/spellbow classes recently so this should freshen things up for a while!

 

[Stoned Ape]

Really enjoying Assassin at the moment. I've started switching up weapons a bit, I have quite a climbing focused build generally use Rusty Bow to start Torpor, then close for climbing and Thousand Kisses with Rusty Dagger to maximise Torpor. Climb to weak spot, swap to Cursed Bite and Dire Gouge to finish. Against mobs I use Sword and Shield, and if something flies I switch to Rusty Bow to shoot it down.

I think I might try Warrior again soon to see if I hate dealing with flying bastards less now I'm running two ranger pawns. I need to get at least one decent drop first, the best Warrior sword I have is Gryphic Victory which is so far behind the curve it does chip damage to anything scarier than an Ogre and I think all the higher-tier hammers/maces I have look a bit dumb.

 

[Carceri]

Not sure if you know about this or not, but you can try Force Hatchet + Bow combo.

 

[Stoned Ape]

Beat first-run Daimon on hard-mode with a level 180 solo assassin (without using the solo boost augment, and my build was a 60/40 Strength/Magic setup which doesn't really help assassin). He was a very good challenge. Not sure if I want to try doing the second run yet, might mess about with another vocation outside of BBI first.

I've tried every vocation now, I think the ranking from least-to-most enjoyable for me is:

Mage, Sorcerer, Mystic Knight, Warrior, Strider, Magick Archer, Ranger, Fighter, Assassin.

I don't enjoy the vocations with less dynamic playstyles (Mage, Sorcerer, Mystic Knight) as much as I do the more aggressive options. I love Warrior in DD2, but not as much in DDDA. It seemed to rely too much of spamming jumping attacks for my taste. I nerfed Strider when I played by not using Skullsplitter or Fracture Dart and even without them it's climbing game is so strong you don't really have to work as much to get to weak spots and kill bosses. Magick Archer is very good at running through most of BBI and clearing rooms, but I didn't find it's boss-killing ability to match a nerfed Strider.

I didn't use many Blast Arrows with Ranger, but the 10-fold shot with a good bow is strong enough to deal with pretty much most things anyway, and if not you can always pop a periapt or four. I really enjoyed Fighter, nice mix of getting stuck in and being able to block while being less spammy than Warrior. Assassin gets top spot because it allowed me to mix up weapons and playstyles more.

Not sure what I'll do now, I might mess about with Mystic Knight for a while as I have Cursed Light fully upgraded. Previously the best enchanted weapon I had was Almace (which was behind the power curve for BBI so I kept having to pop periapts to even hurt things). I'm not overly keen on how MK played during my initial playthrough of the base game, it felt very static from what I remember and Stone Jungle seemed to have a pretty short range and took quite a long time to cast (even with WK's Ring and Articulation) while Magic Cannon seemed to shoot at something I didn't want it to if it had the option. The shield skills generally seemed more useful, I used the party-wide holy enchant and the dark weapon enhancement a lot.