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Dragon Age - official Codex verdict

KreideBein

Scholar
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
957
I actually bought DA due to the overwhelmingly positive reaction. Turns out that it was a fantastic investment; DA does indeed live up to the post-release buzz. (To be honest, I was rather expecting the skyway apologists to be right about this one. The marketing campaign for DA truly made me cringe.) Having just completed it as a human mage, here are my general impressions:

The writing and VA are far better than I expected. As others have mentioned, neither category reaches the heights established by, say, VTMB, but they work quite well and are rarely obtrusive, with the occasional exception where the writing veers into a Whedon-esque style of putting "funny" comments in serious situations (e.g. Alistair's "sneaky witch-thief" comment). The only other problem was a very minor version of Oblivion syndrome where voice actors are used for multiple characters. To be fair, though, I only noticed that a handful of times throughout the entire game.

Combat is great, probably the best RTwP system I've played. I played most of the game on normal (had to switch to easy during the encounter with Loghain's female flunky, whatever her name was; that fight was absolutely insane), and the challege level stayed consistently high, even for relatively minor encounters. The proper use of tactics and talents is essential in most of the fights, particularly in any battle with an orange enemy. I had to reload on multiple occasions due to approaching the fights with an IE mentality. The AI is pretty good for the most part, except for some annoyances like my ranged characters constantly swapping to melee weapons and my main healer (Wynne) mysteriously running out of mana mid-fight. Auto-regen isn't nearly as bad as I had initially thought, and is basically a replacement for spamming the Z key after a fight in other RPGs.

I can't comment too much on the usefulness of the warrior or rogue classes since I didn't delve into them as much, but mages are quite well-done. They're certainly not as godlike as in BG2 and whatnot, especially since the top-tier damage spells didn't do massive instant damage, resulting in you having to think more about how to use them without being wasteful. I was also rather pleased that the almighty Paralysis Explosion spell combo, which tends to ease the difficulty of many fights, is almost useless against "boss" enemies. It forced me to massively re-evaluate my tactics for such encounters.

The story also ended up being a lot better than I would have expected. I was expecting a typical Bioware story about ancient evil or whatever and... well, that's what I got, but Bioware managed to make the whole thing interesting. The various races and factions were well fleshed-out through both in-game dialogue and the Codex (which, by the way, is awesome), and though I often saw bits of other stories in the game, they didn't strike me as being offensively derivitive. The choices within the story are surprisingly good, though I can't be sure how many different outcomes there are to be had, seeing as how I've only been through the game once. The situation with Jarvia and the Landsmeet struck me as particularly intriguing, though there were quite a few others that were well-done in the choices department.

The companions were generally enjoyable, though the only ones with whom I interacted much were Alistair, Leliana, Morrigan, and Wynne. The "twist" with Alistair was welcome due to how much it affected the story, as was Morrigan's offer near the end. Leliana and Wynne seemed perhaps a bit shallow, though. One thing which delighted me was that Zevran tried to kill me a second time when his friend showed up. My expectations from scenarios like this in other games led me to think that it was all a farce, that he was fine, and so on. Turns out that not giving him any attention results in him not being too loyal (or at least I assume so; it follows that he'd stick with the PC if his approval were higher).

Overall it's excellent. Some areas of the game are merely "good" rather than great, but I couldn't find much of anything that stuck out as being genuinely bad about it. Definitely worth an actual purchase, and I'm inclined to agree with VD that this is the best (overall) RPG since Arcanum. I'd go so far as to say that it's even better, but as Silellak pointed out, there's the ephemeral "click" factor. DA clicked with me, I admit it.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,891
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Tails said:
Vault Dweller said:
the best RPG since Arcanum.
Hm I wonder if you keep up this statement with time, VD. After all, Dragon Age is rather new game and mostly the goods & flaws can be seen after few next different or similar replays.

I wouldn't really think so. It is really a bioware game and the flaws and benefits are pretty well known. The few choices with consequences is pretty known and the ones without is annoying, but expected.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
9,927
Location
bosphorus
After reading the comparisons to Bloodlines, I realized that I have a mental block on everything I hate about the game and only remember the good parts, especially the early game in Santa Monica and Hollywood.

Still the question for me is whether I'd rather have 10 more games with Bloodlines' quality of writing, VOs, atmosphere and general awesomeness with a tsunami of flaws and bugs, or solid games that are just good but no real brilliance. I've yet to play DA but looking at past BW games, I can say I wish the former were the case.

As for combat alone: since it's almost always there as just a filler content or temporary distraction so you don't get bored with too much of whatever else there is to the game, without becoming an actual plot device or a major source of challenge, I couldn't care less which games had better combat. I find the combat in BG, KOTOR and NWN series to be better and more enjoyable than in most games, including my favourites such as Arcanum or VTMB, of those mentioned thus far, but if your game isn't on par with JA2 or TOEE in combat, that's trivial.

Except for Fallout. The ultra-violent lethality with the comic book feel and the relative ridiculousness almost make it a magical experience there, and a strong motivation for consideration, despite the lack of better tactical depth of other games.
 

1eyedking

Erudite
Joined
Dec 10, 2007
Messages
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Location
Argentina
I mostly agree with you, denizsi.

What I do believe, however, is that it's not as good as some people in the Codex put it out to be. In ultimate instance it's a BioWare game, give or take. You play not without cringing and facepalming at some serious design issues and dialogue events, but overall it makes for an at times entertaining disaffected experience.
 
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KreideBein said:
Combat is great, probably the best RTwP system I've played. I played most of the game on normal (had to switch to easy during the encounter with Loghain's female flunky, whatever her name was; that fight was absolutely insane),

Ser Cauthrien. I was wondering what the fuck is going on when this bitch did about 50+ damage per hit each and was almost immune to every stunning effect I had. I reloaded a couple of times until I noticed
that this is a Deus Ex Gunter Hermann-like situation where you get thrown in prison when you die during the fight, so I decided to just surrender rather than cheesing out with AI exploits or such to kill her.
 

KreideBein

Scholar
Joined
Sep 19, 2006
Messages
957
Freelance Henchman said:
KreideBein said:
Combat is great, probably the best RTwP system I've played. I played most of the game on normal (had to switch to easy during the encounter with Loghain's female flunky, whatever her name was; that fight was absolutely insane),

Ser Cauthrien. I was wondering what the fuck is going on when this bitch did about 50+ damage per hit each and was almost immune to every stunning effect I had. I reloaded a couple of times until I noticed
that this is a Deus Ex Gunter Hermann-like situation where you get thrown in prison when you die during the fight, so I decided to just surrender rather than cheesing out with AI exploits or such to kill her.

Hah, I suppose I should've stuck around long enough after dying to see that. I usually reload the game before my whole party is even dead if it's pretty certain that everyone will be meaty chunks within a few seconds no matter what I do. What happens when you get tossed in jail?
 

made

Arcane
Joined
Dec 18, 2006
Messages
5,131
Location
Germany
Annonchinil said:
So are there any moments in DA that will go down as anyone’s favourites?

I can't recall a single scene or line of dialogue that would have made a lasting impression and the game is still quite fresh in my mind. Witcher is now years old but I still remember some of Geralt's comments, like when he explains that contrary to popular belief, both his swords are for slaying monsters. Or when he sarcastically comments on the depraved nature of humans. Or take the scene at the end of the tuturial, when the "last few remaining members of a small circle of monster-fighting magic-enhanced humans face the shattered remains of their existence and set out to take vengeance" which is very similiar to DA's betrayal at Ostagar. Either gets very little exposition as both serve as an intruduction for the story only a few hours into the game - why did I care more about the Witchers than I cared about the Wardens? Why was I touched by Leo's death but not by Duncan's? Mind you, Duncan was still one of DA's better support NPCs in a sea of blandness.
 

Grifthin

Educated
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
268
Location
South-Africa
I wil always remember the Morrigan/Dark ritual/Romance option - that was fucked up.

The dog - He cool, especially when he leaves a half eaten hare in Morrigan's unmentionables and your character can comment:" no more smelly then some things that go in there."

Sten and Morrigan banter.

Morri: You keep staring at me, Sten. Are you ready?
Sten: Yes. (bluntly)
Morri: HaHa I thoug....what??
Sten: You'll need armor. And something to bite down on. How strong are human teeth?
Morri: ....How strong?
Sten: Qanari teeth can bite through wood, steel. Also, I may want to nuzzle.
Morri: NUZZLE??
Sten: Try to keep a poker nearby. You might want to have it in a fire to make sure it can get my attention...
 

Data4

Arcane
Joined
Sep 11, 2005
Messages
5,559
Location
Over there.
Silellak said:
Obviously some people will feel this "click", and others won't - that's just the way entertainment works. Most people who've played DA for a decent amount of time will at least admit that all of the pieces are there and, it is, at the very least, a good game. Some people feel that personal click with it that promotes a good game into a truly great game, others don't, and there's no amount of arguing from either side that will change the other side's mind. Which is really how it should be.

You pretty much described how I feel about the game. Every day since I got it til I finished it Sunday night, I put in multiple hours. There hasn't been a game that's done that to me since... hell, I can't even remember. Sure, I could have been the cynical cunt, starting the game convinced I'd hate it, ready to jump on whatever flaw I found, and declare it BANAL, SHIT, BORING, but I don't feel the need to. Is the game flawless? No, but that didn't take away from my enjoyment of it. Stupid shit like common street thugs in Daedric Armor is what kills a game for me, and there was nothing remotely resembling that in DA. I've even become a bit of a fanboy now, eagerly looking forward to expansion packs and the next edition in the franchise. Once again, it's been a long, long time since any game has had that effect on me.

Anyway, this post is way too touchy-feely for the Codex, so: fag homonigger douchecunt.

Ah yes. BURN TEH JOOOOOOOOOOOOOOS!!! and all that rot.
 
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KreideBein said:
Hah, I suppose I should've stuck around long enough after dying to see that. I usually reload the game before my whole party is even dead if it's pretty certain that everyone will be meaty chunks within a few seconds no matter what I do. What happens when you get tossed in jail?

You get thrown in jail in Fort Drakon, and can either escape yourself or choose 2 party members other than Alistair and yourself to break you out. I broke out myself, but I hear the party members breaking you out is a well done mission.
 

Inziladun

Magister
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Messages
2,047
Location
Somewhere damp and cold.
Now I regret killing the Lackey. Especially since you don't really get anything (other than a sword which is replace by the Starmetal one from Warden's Keep)

Gives me a reason to play through again, I guess.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
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That scene is actually one of the very few examples of giving the Fallout-codexers exactly what they want. Your "meant" to be defeated, sure, but it is entirely possible to overcome the fight. In which case you can continue the game, but will miss a good portion of it.

I'd honestly have to say that I wish they just made her unkillable.
 
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I would have prefered a really really overwhelmingly large force, or simply a purely dialog based resolution rather than you getting attacked by Lackey-zilla the magically most powerful fighter ever. One of the more stupid moments of DA in my opinion.
 

denizsi

Arcane
Joined
Nov 24, 2005
Messages
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Location
bosphorus
And now I've seen everything, Codexers literally wishing the game was dumbed down in a certain event.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
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denizsi said:
And now I've seen everything, Codexers literally wishing the game was dumbed down in a certain event.

Yes. 'Cause it qualifies as "dumbing down" to not allow you a move that makes you miss a large portion of the game's content for no apparent fucking reason.

This fucking zeal for freedom makes me gag. PS:T and Bloodlines are shining examples of good roleplaying games with next to no freedom. Stop using non-linearity as a fucking mantra.

You might prefer it, but it's not a fucking quality-stamp.
 
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It broke suspension of disbelief big time for me. That woman was ridiculously more powerful than anything else I encountered before. I can see how they want this fight to be hard, but the level of difficulty just seemed far beyond the point of believability to me.
 

Dnny

Educated
Joined
Oct 12, 2009
Messages
470
Grunker said:
denizsi said:
And now I've seen everything, Codexers literally wishing the game was dumbed down in a certain event.

Yes. 'Cause it qualifies as "dumbing down" to not allow you a move that makes you miss a large portion of the game's content for no apparent fucking reason.

This fucking zeal for freedom makes me gag. PS:T and Bloodlines are shining examples of good roleplaying games with next to no freedom. Stop using non-linearity as a fucking mantra.

You might prefer it, but it's not a fucking quality-stamp.

Bloodlines is crap and PS:T is just good because of its original setting otherwise it's just a "Western Japanese RPG". PS:T is the only cRPG I know of that features huge spell animations that litteraly stop the game time while it plays, something that it took from Final Fantasy. Chris Avellone is overrated crap, I take Fallout and Arcanum anyday over PS:T.
 

denizsi

Arcane
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Nov 24, 2005
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9,927
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bosphorus
Grunker said:
denizsi said:
And now I've seen everything, Codexers literally wishing the game was dumbed down in a certain event.

Yes. 'Cause it qualifies as "dumbing down" to not allow you a move that makes you miss a large portion of the game's content for no apparent fucking reason.

This fucking zeal for freedom makes me gag. PS:T and Bloodlines are shining examples of good roleplaying games with next to no freedom. Stop using non-linearity as a fucking mantra.

You might prefer it, but it's not a fucking quality-stamp.

I just recalled surrendering in a conflict in JA2. It worked pretty good both ways. So...

Herp derp
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
i happen to agree with VD and Andyman ( i really just don't even want to head'splode and read Volourn's posts) about this game. it's been a very long time since i've been patiently plotting my way through an RPG like this.

the rest of you i'm sort of mentally lining up like dead Jews in a nazi ditch and pissing on your rotting, starved corpses.
 

Korgan

Arbiter
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Sten and Morrigan banter.

Morri: You keep staring at me, Sten. Are you ready?
Sten: Yes. (bluntly)
Morri: HaHa I thoug....what??
Sten: You'll need armor. And something to bite down on. How strong are human teeth?
Morri: ....How strong?
Sten: Qanari teeth can bite through wood, steel. Also, I may want to nuzzle.
Morri: NUZZLE??
Sten: Try to keep a poker nearby. You might want to have it in a fire to make sure it can get my attention...
X-treme.
 

made

Arcane
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Location
Germany
Grifthin said:
I wil always remember the Morrigan/Dark ritual/Romance option - that was fucked up.
Fucked up indeed. Probably one of the most contrived and unbelievable points in the whole story. Since my char was female, the conversation went like this:

Morrigan: PC, you don't have to die a tragic death, there is another way!
PC: Do tell!
Morrigan: Alistair and I will make babies, and when you slay the Archdemon who is also a dragon and an Old God its essence will be absorbed by the unborn child, creating an ABOMINATION INFUSED WITH THE POWER OF THE OLD GODS THAT WILL COME BACK AND HAUNT YOU IN THE SEQUEL.
PC: Wow, sounds pretty far fetched. You sure this will work?
Morrigan: Why yes, in fact, that has been my plan all along you see and the reason my mom sent me with you in the first place.
PC: Right, sounds good to me. Lemme just convince Alistair who hates you and would rather die than go through with that plan.
Alistair: WHAT! No way in hell!
PC: [persuasion] Cmon, we're friends, aren't we? Trust me.
Alistair: Oh well, ok.

*pathetic sex scene ensues at which point I reload an old save and tell her to gtfo*
 

Volourn

Pretty Princess
Pretty Princess Glory to Ukraine
Joined
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Messages
24,986
LOts of memorable momments in DA, and I'm not even finished. Top 4 game so far. Only FO2, BG2, and NWN:TP are ahead of it at the moment.
 

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