KickStarter Double Fine's MASSIVE CHALICE - Released... but nobody cares

[Zombra]

Bored.

 

[Tigranes]

http://af.gog.com/game/massive_chalice?as=1649904300

$10.50

 

[Metro]

Wake me when this shit is in a bundle.

 

[Zombra]

So, having gotten sick of how punishing XCOM Long War is, I gave the release version of MASSIVE CHALICE a shot last night.

Some random observations:

It's interesting that you start out the war with a bunch of level 1 goofs doomed to grow old and die before they can get to level 3 ... but their kids can be born at higher levels.

All characters seem to have crippling deficiencies, which in a way is awesome. I started with a Caberjack (melee fighter) with the Slow disadvantage, meaning he stumbled behind the rest of the vanguard and had a fuck of a time closing to melee range. He was reassigned to library duty as soon as I figured this out. It seems like with every unit, you have to figure out their limitations early and learn to deal with them.

My favorite emergent story so far: in the very first tutorial combat, I randomly fielded a team of "Revelers" - characters with this trait love to drink and party. Then I did more tutorial stuff and nothing happened for a while. Eleven years later, the kingdom was attacked again and I fielded most of the same heroes - but think of it. If you were the heroes who saved the kingdom once and that was your whole job, and eleven years went by with no enemy action, and you were predisposed to drink in the first place ... you guessed it. Four out of my five heroes were horribly hung over, dragging their asses around the battlefield like dead logs through peanut butter. I still won the fight, but it was hilarious to see the little "drunk" notifications every turn as my guys suffered penalties.

Backer content is in, definitely something I didn't see in the beta. It's pretty cool to have all these family crests and names, and you can filter whether you have only Serious names, only Silly ones, or both. One annoying thing is that every family has their own backer-written battlecry - cool in theory. What bugs shit out of me is that they didn't even bother to standardize the grammar. So you have Battle Cries With Each Word Capitalized, BATTLE CRIES IN ALL CAPS !!, battle cries with improper punctuation , and battle cries with no punctuation at all

On a similar note, when choosing the ruler of a keep to found a dynasty and sire heirs, the game advises you to pick a character with traits you want to pass on. Good advice, but you also want to make sure they have a family name and battle cry you can live with, because you'll be seeing that name over and over on every character to come out of that state, and that battle cry over and over every time one of those characters kills an enemy.

The combat itself is pretty fun. Some nice variety to the enemies even in the early game, and the character classes are fresh and weird. Alchemists throw bombs and have a nice melee attack as well; Caberjacks are melee fighters who wield huge battering rams instead of swords; Hunters are more standard crossbowmen. I think there are like 9 other classes that can only be fielded by crossbreeding.

I haven't really begun to dig into the research trees and new unlocks yet. I look forward to opening up more game options, character classes, and items, including Relics (legendary weapons passed down from parent to child). I'm a bit worried about my next combat as half my roster died of old age and I only have three fighters ready to deal with the country's most recent crisis. Wish me luck.

 

[J_C]

So, having gotten sick of how punishing XCOM Long War is, I gave the release version of MASSIVE CHALICE a shot last night.

Some random observations:

It's interesting that you start out the war with a bunch of level 1 goofs doomed to grow old and die before they can get to level 3 ... but their kids can be born at higher levels.

All characters seem to have crippling deficiencies, which in a way is awesome. I started with a Caberjack (melee fighter) with the Slow disadvantage, meaning he stumbled behind the rest of the vanguard and had a fuck of a time closing to melee range. He was reassigned to library duty as soon as I figured this out. It seems like with every unit, you have to figure out their limitations early and learn to deal with them.

My favorite emergent story so far: in the very first tutorial combat, I randomly fielded a team of "Revelers" - characters with this trait love to drink and party. Then I did more tutorial stuff and nothing happened for a while. Eleven years later, the kingdom was attacked again and I fielded most of the same heroes - but think of it. If you were the heroes who saved the kingdom once and that was your whole job, and eleven years went by with no enemy action, and you were predisposed to drink in the first place ... you guessed it. Four out of my five heroes were horribly hung over, dragging their asses around the battlefield like dead logs through peanut butter. I still won the fight, but it was hilarious to see the little "drunk" notifications every turn as my guys suffered penalties.

Backer content is in, definitely something I didn't see in the beta. It's pretty cool to have all these family crests and names, and you can filter whether you have only Serious names, only Silly ones, or both. One annoying thing is that every family has their own backer-written battlecry - cool in theory. What bugs shit out of me is that they didn't even bother to standardize the grammar. So you have Battle Cries With Each Word Capitalized, BATTLE CRIES IN ALL CAPS !!, battle cries with improper punctuation , and battle cries with no punctuation at all

On a similar note, when choosing the ruler of a keep to found a dynasty and sire heirs, the game advises you to pick a character with traits you want to pass on. Good advice, but you also want to make sure they have a family name and battle cry you can live with, because you'll be seeing that name over and over on every character to come out of that state, and that battle cry over and over every time one of those characters kills an enemy.

The combat itself is pretty fun. Some nice variety to the enemies even in the early game, and the character classes are fresh and weird. Alchemists throw bombs and have a nice melee attack as well; Caberjacks are melee fighters who wield huge battering rams instead of swords; Hunters are more standard crossbowmen. I think there are like 9 other classes that can only be fielded by crossbreeding.

I haven't really begun to dig into the research trees and new unlocks yet. I look forward to opening up more game options, character classes, and items, including Relics (legendary weapons passed down from parent to child). I'm a bit worried about my next combat as half my roster died of old age and I only have three fighters ready to deal with the country's most recent crisis. Wish me luck.

Sounds pretty cool. I put the game on hold after the first hours, since I want to finish The Witchening 3 first, but I will come back to it. Some patches might iron out the backer content a bit by then.

 

[Infinitron]

RPS review: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/04/massive-chalice-review/

Massive Chalice is determined to be more of a meat grinder than even XCOM was, but it does this by repeatedly and often tiresomely swamping your squad with enemies, many of whom present complications: the one who becomes near-impregnable after one hit, the one who spawns three minions upon death, the aforementioned one who showers acid upon anyone close… All these require strategy and thought, which is great, but all too soon this strategy becomes a laborious ritual.

So much takes so long, too. I groan when a soldier wanders in range of a pack of enemies, and I have to endure a short pause and a message that they’ve been spotted for each enemy before I can do anything about it. And I too often feel like there’s little at stake – my soldiers will die soon anyway. At least in battle I get to see it happen, a moment of reflection and guilt for my decisions.

I enjoy the fights much more when a new enemy is introduced. Massive Chalice likes to seem unfair, and learning how to make it fair is a satisfying thrill. There is definite invention here, but it’s often obscured by cyclic busywork. Again, the delight wears off once you know the routine, but now and again there’s something new to master. I liked the fights even more when, due to recklessness with appointments and casualties, I could only field a team of two or three rather than five. Extreme caution and almost a stealth aspect, as I skulked around the edges of the map, striving not to enter sight range of any more enemies than I could handle.

I don’t think Massive Chalice was designed to be played like that, but when it was it had some of the tension and satisfaction of Invisible Inc – more of an organic and panicky puzzle, rather than a practiced reaction to whichever enemy shambled towards me. The dry world of stats and staff turnover faded away: I was caught in the moment, absolutely determined to keep these two people alive no matter what, no longer cognisant that they could be replaced easily and would be gone soon anyway. Something excellent and lively hides underneath Massive Chalice’s stony exterior; I only wish I could get at more easily and more often. I keep playing it because I want to like it so much, because in so many ways it seems made for me, but I can’t quite seem to. I feel bad that I don’t like it much, but I don’t like it much.

I can choose who to marry to who in order to know exactly what Class their offspring will be. I can choose who to shackle to breeding or research or novice training for the rest of their lives. I can choose whose life to gamble with. I can’t change anyone’s name or appearance. I can’t change any family’s banner. I can’t change the canned line printed on the screen when they score a kill. I can’t find anything that would make them, or Massive Chalice, feel like mine. I wonder why that is. There are many good things within Massive Chalice, but they’re frustratingly kept at arm’s length from me.

 

[J_C]

RPS review: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/06/04/massive-chalice-review/

Massive Chalice is determined to be more of a meat grinder than even XCOM was, but it does this by repeatedly and often tiresomely swamping your squad with enemies, many of whom present complications: the one who becomes near-impregnable after one hit, the one who spawns three minions upon death, the aforementioned one who showers acid upon anyone close… All these require strategy and thought, which is great, but all too soon this strategy becomes a laborious ritual.

So much takes so long, too. I groan when a soldier wanders in range of a pack of enemies, and I have to endure a short pause and a message that they’ve been spotted for each enemy before I can do anything about it. And I too often feel like there’s little at stake – my soldiers will die soon anyway. At least in battle I get to see it happen, a moment of reflection and guilt for my decisions.

I enjoy the fights much more when a new enemy is introduced. Massive Chalice likes to seem unfair, and learning how to make it fair is a satisfying thrill. There is definite invention here, but it’s often obscured by cyclic busywork. Again, the delight wears off once you know the routine, but now and again there’s something new to master. I liked the fights even more when, due to recklessness with appointments and casualties, I could only field a team of two or three rather than five. Extreme caution and almost a stealth aspect, as I skulked around the edges of the map, striving not to enter sight range of any more enemies than I could handle.

I don’t think Massive Chalice was designed to be played like that, but when it was it had some of the tension and satisfaction of Invisible Inc – more of an organic and panicky puzzle, rather than a practiced reaction to whichever enemy shambled towards me. The dry world of stats and staff turnover faded away: I was caught in the moment, absolutely determined to keep these two people alive no matter what, no longer cognisant that they could be replaced easily and would be gone soon anyway. Something excellent and lively hides underneath Massive Chalice’s stony exterior; I only wish I could get at more easily and more often. I keep playing it because I want to like it so much, because in so many ways it seems made for me, but I can’t quite seem to. I feel bad that I don’t like it much, but I don’t like it much.

I can choose who to marry to who in order to know exactly what Class their offspring will be. I can choose who to shackle to breeding or research or novice training for the rest of their lives. I can choose whose life to gamble with. I can’t change anyone’s name or appearance. I can’t change any family’s banner. I can’t change the canned line printed on the screen when they score a kill. I can’t find anything that would make them, or Massive Chalice, feel like mine. I wonder why that is. There are many good things within Massive Chalice, but they’re frustratingly kept at arm’s length from me.

Seems like a decent review. The game has some genuinly good ideas, but also some flaws which make it like busywork after a while.

I can’t change anyone’s name or appearance. I can’t change any family’s banner.

I don't think even a king had the right to change a family's name or banner in medieval ages. Sure, this is a game, but this is not how it works.

 

[Zombra]

It is remarkable how fast time passes in this game. I just played some more and had a few fun battles ... and also burned through about four generations of warriors. I just don't have time to get attached to any characters, which is a shame. All that leaves is the family names ... and I made the mistake of installing two regents of the same family early on because of good character stats ... now that family dominates about 80% of my roster. I've had to call for inbreeding just to keep my ranks replenished. And I don't even really like that family.

It also seems strange how much time research takes. I'm already 1/3 of the way into the game and still haven't been able to research a single weapon or armor set.

Luckily the gameplay and combat is still fun. I like sneaking around the map with my Shadowjacks to locate enemies and then blowing them up with alchemy bombs before they can do anything. On Normal the game is too easy, but still fun as I'm still trying to get a handle on how everything works.

Next playthrough (if any) I'm going to be way more careful about which families I pick to start with.

 

[Thane Solus]

its pretty bad, i hate the pretentious piece of shit art direction, combat is barren, no cover, just a few templates, the rest is more of gimmick, it doesnt really matter as much in the long run. Its like a proof of concept, or prototype, typical Double Shit Production. Lots of potential, only 20% achieved.

 

[Whiran]

I don't think even a king had the right to change a family's name or banner in medieval ages. Sure, this is a game, but this is not how it works.

You are correct no one had the right to change another person's coat of arms so long as it followed the rules of what was allowed or not. However, anyone could create a -new- coat of arms at any time if they so desired.

Trying to argue a lack of customization behind the rules of Heraldry is a bad choice since those rules fully allow for individuals to make their own coat of arms at any time. There is no historical reason to prevent players from creating their own dynasty by creating a family name, a coat of arms, and a motto.

From a game perspective I find it to be a weird choice since players tend to enjoy customization and renaming things.

 

[4249]

50% off in Steam midweek madness. 23 days from release. Wat.

 

[Abu Antar]

50% off in Steam midweek madness. 23 days from release. Wat.

It hasn't really sold a massive (pun not intended) a amount of copies. SteamSpy has it at around 63.000 copies. I know SS isn't always correct, but I assume it has sold no more than 100.000 copies because SS is still fairly accurate. I will probably try out the game if it hits sub €5 or gets bundled.

 

[Shevek]

So, having gotten sick of how punishing XCOM Long War is

The difficulty is highly customizable.

 

[pakoito]

50% off in Steam midweek madness. 23 days from release. Wat.

 

[Metro]

Been 50% off multiple times near/at its release. Will be $5 or bundled within half a year.

 

[Explorerbc]

I will get it for 1$ in a future humble bundle

Spoiler

if the other games are interesting

 

[almondblight]

It hasn't really sold a massive (pun not intended) a amount of copies. SteamSpy has it at around 63.000 copies. I know SS isn't always correct, but I assume it has sold no more than 100.000 copies because SS is still fairly accurate. I will probably try out the game if it hits sub €5 or gets bundled.

The Kickstarter had 31,774 backers and it was on early access as well. So the numbers sold since release are probably closer to 35,000 or 40,000 copies since release (not sure how it did on GOG, but Serpent in the Staglands has more reviews on GOG than Massive Chalice).

 

[Metro]

100,000 is probably the ballpark counting KS, Steam, GOG, and Humble Store sales. And the average price per purchase is $15 if not less.

 

[Curious_Tongue]

50% off in Steam midweek madness. 23 days from release. Wat.

It hasn't really sold a massive (pun not intended) a amount of copies. SteamSpy has it at around 63.000 copies. I know SS isn't always correct, but I assume it has sold no more than 100.000 copies because SS is still fairly accurate. I will probably try out the game if it hits sub €5 or gets bundled.

How does SteamSpy work anyway?

 

[Abu Antar]

50% off in Steam midweek madness. 23 days from release. Wat.

It hasn't really sold a massive (pun not intended) a amount of copies. SteamSpy has it at around 63.000 copies. I know SS isn't always correct, but I assume it has sold no more than 100.000 copies because SS is still fairly accurate. I will probably try out the game if it hits sub €5 or gets bundled.

How does SteamSpy work anyway?

This is the best link I can give you.
http://steamspy.com/about
It will only take a few minutes to read through. Short and basic description: It takes millions of samples on a daily basis and calculates sales.

 

[Archibald]

What was the budget for it? 1,2 mil from Kicstarter was enough or they had to add some extra?

 

[Ulminati]

Odds are they used less and the rest was funneled into broken age.

 

[Cyberarmy]

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/psychonauts-brutal-legend-developer-joining-valve/1100-6431222/

:incloosive:

 

[Metro]

$5 now during the Steam sale. It doesn't look awful but still thinking I should wait for the fifteenth Double Fine Humble where they package this with DF9 -- that's available for a mere $1 now.

 

[Trash]

They actually got around to polishing this thing since it was released? I'm hankering for some fun strategy gaming but an earlier version I played felt, well, flat.

And DF9 is a scam and they know it. Mismanagement is one thing but they really reached a low with that game. They'll probably try to put it in as many bundles as they can just to prop up the number of games included. Wonder if all the talk about 'mods will fix it' ever happened.