Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[Ninjerk]

One thing I'm positively enjoying in this new patch is the kotl's aghanim - racked up an 8-3 record with this hero, prioritizing the scepter in every game. It's pretty crazy - vision area is ridiculous and racks up quite a number of kills for your team (that is, if your team is ganky enough, that's the downside), healing is incredibly good (though getting your teammates to step into that damn wave may pose a trouble), constantly available blinding light may save your hide (or your teammates) and recall... Well, I'm playing kotl mostly when I'm without my stack of russian schoolkids (yes, I have quite the connoisseur way of enjoying dota) so team coordination usually sucks... But at least I can troll annoying teammates with it.

Of course, it's gonna get harder in a number of weeks (months?) as most people will get more or less accustomed to it (atm you often get those easy kills through vision because people just have no idea that kotl does that), but I'll enjoy it for as long as it continues.

KOTL GIEV MANA

 

[Malakal]

The sustain in pushes that Keeper offers now is insane. On the other hand Lich Aghanim upgrade is very underwhelming.

 

[Pope Amole II]

You know, when it comes to enjoying dota, one thing that is extremely good for me is my vast MTGO experience. What I mean is that, while people usually rage hard when losing in this game (especially when something retarded happens, though it depends on a person, mostly - there are guys who rage even more when they themselves fail), I tend to remain pretty calm since I've endured years of MTGO grinding and, in terms of pain, shame & suffering, dota is not even fucking close.

Yeah, sure, you have 20-40 minutes of bad time, maybe 60 if it goes extremely long, so what? You still can scrounge some amount of good time from it and, well, even if you lose, you're not actually losing anything. Heck, you're still having chance for that lucky mythical drop or whatever. Whereas in modo, if your draft goes wrong, you're out of up to $14. That's for the same 40 minutes period (though, if you're unlucky in the swiss, that can turn into 2-3 long hours of drudgery). And while in dota you can always blame your teammates (whether it's justified or not, it still gives some kind of psychological relief), in MTGO it's only you and your luck. And the fucking shuffler, of course. Fuck it sideways.

So, for example, yesterday I randomed a Spectre. I'm that kind of guy. And I've picked second - before me was a witch doctor. So what my team does, they pick sniper, faceless void and a spirit breaker (which is picked at 0:40 - fuck that gold). Ain't such thing as enough carries.

Void goes easy, obviously. I go hard, but bara follows me and, when the creep wave comes, he, of course, starts to last hit. Now, if I was an average doter, this game would've been a game of rage - I would've shouted at the void, then it's either double-easy or still hard lane, but with even more screaming at bara, etc., etc. (our lane was shit, btw - the enemy duo of phantom lancer + skywrath mage harassed us like there's no tomorrow, actually, skywrath himself harassed us like hell, and we really needed WD to have even slightest chance at winning). But I've remained totally and absolutely calm - like, dudes, you want my spectre hard? Go on, fuck yourselves. Bara wants to take all the farm to himself? His problems, I don't give a fuck. There's nothing at stake, so who cares? I've had my little moments of glory - a kill here or there, a nice team-fight (well, as nice as you can do with a spectre who has no farm and experience), a tower denied, a hook dodged, even. And actually winning - what's there to win, lol?

Another example - today I had a game with my russian schoolkids stack. And we had some really retarded ds - well, yeah, my schoolkids was kinda rude to him, asking him to go forest instead of hard, and they weren't exactly forgiving for his fails (they weren't that harsh, either), but obviously at minute 15 or so into the game that idiot began intentional feeding. Literally - go and die to feed their doom and pudge, feed our courier to them, press the glyph, denied our creeps so our lanes are pushed, told them we're doing rosh, everything. Enemies were weak so it was still a close game, but still, we've failed somewhat and lost. Now, obviously, my boys were at the extreme levels of butthurt. I didn't give a damn, though - apart from proving himself a retard and earning 4 (at the very least) reports, what did he accomplish? Wasted 40 minutes of his life? Lol.

TL;DR, in my opinion, one of the most important things to enjoy dota (and other online games) is to remember that stakes are shit here and there's no real reason to rage (that's a funny thing to say on the codex, I know). The cooler you are, the cooler it'll be.

 

[G a R M]

Lol, what a game I just had.

So I'm a doom ( my favourite hero). I'm also a jungler - I'm old and lazy and can't be bothered to drag my ass on the lane. Not until I farm up some goodies, at least.

Now, from the pick it's quite obvious that we were fucked right up from the start - they have lich, ds and zeus (some crazy pub ults) and two more or less decent carries. Kinda vulnerable to ganks, I guess, but once you look at our pick you'll see that we had pure shit here - 4 carries, 1 support. Even worse was the laning - I was hoping to jungle, but veng+alch went easy and clinkz+jugger went hard. Since no one was on mid, I was forced to go there (2nd time in my life). Versus Zeus. Now, I didn't do too badly - at 11 minutes I had 52 creeps and only died twice (the score was, like, 0-10 at that point) - the hell can I do against 3-man ganks, especially the first one, DD Luna? No missing calls, obv. Still, I had bottle, midas & boots so it wasn't that bad. What was bad was my team. Now, the 0-10 score at 11 minutes tells it all (oh, wait, I'm lying - it was 1-10 because I doomed someone), but let me elaborate:

Venge was one of the most whiniest bitch I've ever seen in my life. He went and went and went on how shitty we all were, but in the team of Alchemist, Clinkz and Jugger he haven't bothered to skill even a single level of wave of terror until, like, 30 minutes into the game. No comments.

Clinkz took his first level of ulti at level 13. No comments.

The only thing alchemist ever did was stealing my farm. He also went into greevil's greed first and, obviously, couldn't last hit for his life so he was messing around with the small neutral camp until he got his bf.

Jugger... Wasn't that bad, I guess? Of course, his battlefury is pretty stupid in this team (as everyone wants to farm), but at least he was more or less decent at fighting. Still, if only he went aghs - like, my assault cuirass, venge's wave (if that was a proper venge), alchemists' acid, maybe a desolator for clinkz...

Also, for my build - yeah, doom's aghanims is not that great, but that was a metagaming choice. I went for it after we were already in the deep shit and it helped me to collect quite a number of their streaks. Especially since they got relaxed and began feeding at one point of the game. I guess we could've turned it around, but not with a team like that. Ugh.

Should have run Juggs mid against Zeus--yeah Juggs sucks but he just needs to soak up XP for his ulti. For your safelane you should have run you and the Venge which would have forced DS to spam his orb on your creeps since you could just eat his if he did that. You then enjoy the fact that DS has a lane partner which means the lane was pushed. And then for hardlane you run Alch +Clinkz with Alch taking Acid Spray level 1 and Clinkz taking Burning Arrows--that combo alone would either straightup kill the safelane PA or it would burn all her regen. Either way one of their lanes was absolute garbage and you should have won it--DS and then a melee carry like PA? LOL.

I'd also like to point out that Doom can lane perfectly fine--especially against a lineup like that.

I'd also like to point out the complete lack of team aura items. You had no:

- Drums
- Pipe
- Mek
- VLADS (HOW THE FUCK DO YOU NOT HAVE VLADS WHEN YOU HAVE 4 MELEE?)

Also, why the fuck would you guys be investing in so much armor? The only two you need that for is the PA and the Luna. It was the magic damage that fucked you guys early, not PA's pitiful rightclick.

 

[Psquit]

Fucking invoker tornado+emp they shold nerf that shit. He spammed that shit the whole game, 2 shoots of that and you end up with no mana.

 

[Ninjerk]

It was nerfed

Spoiler

 

[Malakal]

Well it was, now most invokers will miss their EMP timing, especially if you have a mobility item like force staff.

 

[Ninjerk]

I would prefer a slower moving tornado, tbh.

 

[Konjad]

i would prefer not to play dota

 

[Ninjerk]

Necro has almost 60% winrate this patch 0.o

 

[Konjad]

With your mom I also usually have like 60% winrate.

 

[Ninjerk]

 

[Pope Amole II]

Y'know, in my last couple of games I've come to absolutely despise playing as the split-pusher. Like, the gameplay itself is fine, it's just that your team always expects some kind of magic from you - like, that no matter amount of cocks they will suck, you'll still be able to go by the side lane and push the tron solo (preferrably against the entire enemy team).

So I random the broodmother yesterday. I go solo hard. Play without spiders - in my experience, fast maxed passive is absolutely devastating against certain heroes (the opposing spectre could do nothing to me) and spiders just feed damn too much to the enemy, at any stage of the game. I have somewhat late midas, but more or less fast radiance after that (maybe not the best build, but who gives a fuck about wannabe pros). And the team is winning the small skirmishes (I also do a couple of kills), so all is fine with one exception - we play 4v5 because the legion commander got disconnected. Ok, we still win fights, push the towers, then my team is all like "dude, let's go rax!" But I look at our items and reply - no, dudes, we need to farm to go highground 4v5. I, personally, really needed that heart (or at least a reaver).

Of course, they don't give a fuck, we go mid and feed. I repeat - let's farm, but no! More all go mid, more feed. Then they all go - brood, why are you not winning us the game, go push sidelanes! I go push them, but the retards try rosh and, obviously, get wiped 3v5. That causes more whine, which lasts until the end of the game (with them, apparently, reporting me thrice, lol). They try to engage even more now hopeless battles, and they feed and feed and feed. And who's guilty at the end of the game? Broodmother, ofc, because they all played pretty well and it's me who's the "pushing machine" which "afk farmed 40 mins". Retards.

Now just now I random Furion, go jungle. I do well - 7 min midas, after that travels (I really love fast travels on furion, with the amount of tps he consumes, it's like gaining a second midas), desolator, cuirass. Splitpush and gank, we're winning the game, all goes well. Until only tier-2 at the bottom remains and once again I hear "furion, go split push, go rax, win us the game". Fine, dudes, but what about, like, placing a ward so I'm not forced to tp in blindly, without knowing where the fuck their entire team is? Or how about engaging into a fight and winning it, or at least making it last long enough (and with Storm Spirit & QoP & shadow blade Bane it's certainly a possibility) that I can do something? What about creating an opportunity for some rat doto? No, fuck you, Furion, go push! Y'know, one time I even exemplary tpd straight in and died in a short time, because that's what you do when you don't know where the enemies are, but think that stopped the split push whining?

Ofc no. So then a failed mid push happened, followed by a couple of losing teamfights occured, our team got useless (enemies got bkb + really bad item choices from our team, I mean, double orchids against TA, sniper, bloodseeker, enchantress & pudge) and while we managed to take out their mid somehow(losing 3 dudes and aegis), it still failed to help. I mean, I say to the team - we must lure them into fight, then I tp in and rat doto. Team is like "yeah, that's right, dude, finally". So what they do - they all go storm their bottom rax. Wipe, counterpush, gg, report furion. Now, I'll admit that I'm not a good furion player and I had lots of mechanical flaws in this game, but still, wtf they expect me to do if they don't understand that split push is about farming & counterattacking, not a suicide rush?

 

[curry]

Play without spiders - in my experience, fast maxed passive is absolutely devastating against certain heroes (the opposing spectre could do nothing to me) and spiders just feed damn too much to the enemy, at any stage of the game

Now just now I random Furion, go jungle. I do well - 7 min midas, after that travels

lol trench scrub

If you plan on heavy split pushing, don't go deso+cuirass, instead go necro. Also get your own fucking wards if no one else does wards and learn to predict enemy positioning.

And dont waste your gold on travels

 

[Pope Amole II]

lol trench scrub

Are you a tryhard, son? You sound like one.

It's a non-ranked game, and who ever said that I was planning on heavy split pushing? My team was howling for that, but I've built for teamfights & ganks (because that's fun) and, frankly, I'm not going to go all sweaty, bying wards & controlling necros & whatever the fuck just so those retards can write "gg ez". If they can't pull their load, fuck them.

 

[Renegen]

I was puzzled for a second what travels meant, then I realized you were talking about Boots of Travel, LOL 2k gold well spent huh? Haha, your build was so bad a mostly League player is laughing at you, haha. I think you're playing rat dota incorrectly, it's not to "bait in a fight and then tp", I mean every single hero can do that. From my games with Furion, dying on him is pretty much the worst thing ever. You always want to have enough gold for a buyback and what you're really doing by splitpushing is farming carry items (so no cuirass and travel boots) and you're just wasting the enemy's time.

You need map awareness to know when you should hide in a bush and do nothing, or when to send some ents ahead, when to shadow blade and just sulk quietly maybe looking for their carry to kill (you DID buy carry items right?), when to TP to the other side lane or when to go in super hard and get a tower etc. If it sounds like an annoying playstyle it is, that's why it's called rat dota. What happens if you die? You buyback and immediately make their life hell again, no relief. Split pushing is a sustained effort that ultimately is very lonely, if the enemy fails to make any really bad moves, you'll have to just carry traditionally being the most farmed person on your team except you're a shit hero, and when it works out sometimes it just feels too easy because the benefits are invisible.

 

[Zed]

boots of travel is fucking awesome. what are you guys on about.

 

[Malakal]

Especially if you want to splitpush, they save you a lot of money and an item slot. The problem here is playing broodmother, horrible hero.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Especially if you want to splitpush, they save you a lot of money and an item slot. The problem here is playing broodmother, horrible hero.

Actually, she seems pretty neat if you skip spiders and go for the passive maxed first. 30%/40% move slow at lvl 5/7 (coupled with the huge bonus damage of ulti) is devastating and most melee heroes won't be able to do anything about that at that point (unlike with the spiders which are just more farm for any kind of enemy lineup). This won't last forever, but if you play your cards right (getting lots of early-mid game items, I guess?), you should be able to gain enough momentum to pull it through. Needs more testing, though - I've done pretty well against Spectre+Venge duo (with no support and me going for a really greedy midas), but it's not that hard to do well against a Spectre.

 

[Malakal]

Especially if you want to splitpush, they save you a lot of money and an item slot. The problem here is playing broodmother, horrible hero.

Actually, she seems pretty neat if you skip spiders and go for the passive maxed first. 30%/40% move slow at lvl 5/7 (coupled with the huge bonus damage of ulti) is devastating and most melee heroes won't be able to do anything about that at that point (unlike with the spiders which are just more farm for any kind of enemy lineup). This won't last forever, but if you play your cards right (getting lots of early-mid game items, I guess?), you should be able to gain enough momentum to pull it through. Needs more testing, though - I've done pretty well against Spectre+Venge duo (with no support and me going for a really greedy midas), but it's not that hard to do well against a Spectre.

Yes but by skipping spiders you sacrifice all of the heroes pushing power and brood hardly fits as a carry or support. I have to agree that passive is pretty decent and so is ult, but she still is a melee hero with no gap closer and no survival skill other than webs.

And indeed spectre is very easy to lane against, especially if they didn't have detection.

 

[Pope Amole II]

but she still is a melee hero with no gap closer and no survival skill other than webs.

Mmm, web is a gap closer - it gives you 20-35% of extra speed (which is freaking huge), you can jump out of the impassable terrain and you're invisible. Yeah, sentries counter that, but you can have 8 webs and it's hard to have 8 sentries placed (and even then they don't counter movespeed). They had sentries, btw, I was just careful enough (or maybe it was the shitty placement, who knows). And ulti is a pretty decent survival skill if you're able to chomp at your enemy (or even a nearby creep).

I'm not saying that a pro-choice broodmother is the best carry in dota, but I think that, against certain lineups, she can definitely work that way and deserves testing. It's not like by going 1 game with that build you'll ruin your game stat forever.

 

[Ninjerk]

Brood's free pathing is cancelled by damage now, not vision. Also, Renegen, buybacks are more something you save $ for to save barrackses(sic?) and/or to make a teamfight uneven so you can push a lane down. They're kind of like glyph in that you reallly don't want to use them unless a map objective is immediately involved.

 

[Renegen]

Yeah people usually start pushing for shit when Furion is dead.

 

[Ninjerk]

Pope Amole II
http://dotaflame.com/wagamamatv/630156049

Fun little replay by Wagamama.

 

[curry]

By the way, speaking of rat doto and Boots of Travel, I fucking love Meepo.

 

[Malakal]

By the way, speaking of rat doto and Boots of Travel, I fucking love Meepo.

But meepo hardly needs boots of travel, its an expense he cant afford and he has poof anyway. You good with micro? What do you build on him, dagger into aghanim?

 

[Ninjerk]

If you have to play Phantom Lancer--say, he's one of your compendium heroes--how do you build him?

EDIT: To clarify, I'm mostly up to speed on illusion mechanics, but I'm not sure what exactly I should be doing differently to get myself up to the Heart, Manta, etc.