Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[The_Mask]

This is real content right here.

 

[Mr. Pink]

Damn, SexyBamboe, the semi-pro and streamer from Singsing's stack who was in TI2 died. He was only 29.

 

[The_Mask]

May he rest in peace.



Just in case you can't see the one above.

Spoiler

 

[Dr1f7]

jeez, they just deleted techies
I'm super bummed, one of my favorite heroes, really one of the few who made the game unique
dota 2 is turning into LoL
uninstalled

 

[monilloman]

good riddance

 

[Absinthe]

They've been slowly killing Techies for years and years, one patch at a time. Every single one of Techies's abilities has gotten fucked up. This is just another one.

But DotA hasn't really been the game it used to be for years now anyway. That's why they're hemorrhaging players, and all the idiots can think of is messing up DotA's unique aspects and imitating League of Legends for some strange reason.

 

[KVVRR]

 

[Nahel]

Dota began the decline at 7.0 and only got worse after. It is a parody of what it used to be.

 

[Absinthe]

Depends on who you ask. There are those who'd say DotA began the decline at 6.0 and that 5.84c is the last true version of DotA. Not everyone appreciated IceFrog's DotA. When it comes to Techies, Suicide used to be his ultimate, doing upwards of 3500 damage in a real AoE rather than 1600 or so in a point-blank "AoE" while simultaneously nerfing the shit out of Techies movespeed because Icefrog really fucking hated Techies, especially his Suicide (and even then he nerfed the cooldown by doubling it and later replaced it with that retarded Blast Off ability). 7.00 was definitely an abomination though.

The closest you'll come to pre-7.00 DotA atm is Heroes of Newerth I reckon, but they made plenty of stupid decisions of their own. Game could've been a much bigger success than it ultimately was but they had to mismanage the fuck out of it. HoN never implemented Techies though, and ultimately modified their Engineer hero to give him land mines.

 

[Nahel]

Hon used to be great but as you said awful management and decision making.
Horrible new S2 Heroes, shit monetization and they just sold it, to make another moba who failed

 

[The_Mask]

Yeah... I agree. 7.0 was the last true version of dota.

In any case, I'm kind of done with it. I may still watch tournaments and so on, but I'm seriously done with it. I see nothing that I would enjoy playing. Not even the 1 or 2h a week I was playing so far.

 

[Dr1f7]

well good news is you can still play dota on WC3
bad news is it's WC3 reforged

idk i guess I kinda understand people not liking playing with a techies who isn't strategic with mine placement and just does nothing all game
but they've just been deleting everything that made dota unique, and slowly turning the game into league
which I don't really get because the whole draw to dota was that it wasn't league

whatever I don't really care anymore

 

[LabRat]

I like they finally let jungle creeps can use their spell. But I agree Techies rework is disappointing.

 

[Absinthe]

It's cargo cult logic. If we copy LoL, we should get LoL's success. It doesn't work that way, but it doesn't stop morons from thinking that way.

But there's another side of things, which is that the designers are just bad. And when you're bad, you have a "fun" meta that you intuitively understand would be better if everyone just played that way. So you kill a lot of shit that doesn't fit your vision of the game's meta and make more changes so the game rewards playing the way you like, and start hemorrhaging playercount because it turns out that no, not everyone wants to be forced to play like your incompetent ass and lowering the decision-making potential and skill ceiling isn't fun for them. Meanwhile you're thinking to yourself "people will always complain" and "the game has gotten a lot more fun and better now, I can feel it" and "as a game designer, my insight into game design is innately superior to the gamers" while the game keeps spiraling downhill and losing players.

 

[Nahel]

It's cargo cult logic. If we copy LoL, we should get LoL's success. It doesn't work that way, but it doesn't stop morons from thinking that way.

But there's another side of things, which is that the designers are just bad. And when you're bad, you have a "fun" meta that you intuitively understand would be better if everyone just played that way. So you kill a lot of shit that doesn't fit your vision of the game's meta and make more changes so the game rewards playing the way you like, and start hemorrhaging playercount because it turns out that no, not everyone wants to be forced to play like your incompetent ass and lowering the decision-making potential and skill ceiling isn't fun for them. Meanwhile you're thinking to yourself "people will always complain" and "the game has gotten a lot more fun and better now, I can feel it" and "as a game designer, my insight into game design is innately superior to the gamers" while the game keeps spiraling downhill and losing players.

Could have not said better. And you combine that with clueless fanboys who always dismiss any criticism of the designers move. So the course is not changed until it is too late.

Or the old if you are not pro you cant tell. Why is it true that noobs can be mistaken or not understand balance many people can see the strategical aspect being nerfed without having insane micro.

There is also the lack of creativity of players who always feed forced to follow so called pro players

 

[The_Mask]

This is not meant to be political. This is just the fact that he is the face of dota, and that he is in potential danger, and that we wish he's safe. Nothing less. Nothing more.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

https://press.pglesports.com/180715...gton-2022-will-take-place-between-august-4-14

 

[luj1]

well good news is you can still play dota on WC3
bad news is it's WC3 reforged

idk i guess I kinda understand people not liking playing with a techies who isn't strategic with mine placement and just does nothing all game
but they've just been deleting everything that made dota unique, and slowly turning the game into league
which I don't really get because the whole draw to dota was that it wasn't league

whatever I don't really care anymore

Dota isnt becoming LoL, it has a bunch of unique features

if anything, with every patch its becoming more and more different from LoL

Dota 2 is the best moba ever made, LoL is more popular cause its easier and looks infantile

 

[luj1]

But I agree Techies rework is disappointing.

then you dont know much about the game

this is literally the first time in history that techies can gank and teamfight

techies now feels like a full fledged player, previously it basically meant 4v5

 

[luj1]

Yeah... I agree. 7.0 was the last true version of dota.

In any case, I'm kind of done with it.

git gud

 

[The_Mask]

git gud

I don't care anymore to. The game is dying. The whole MOBA genre as a whole is dying. I'm watching pros and casters doing their best to keep the game alive, and I'm just casually enjoying their torment.
Valve has had a decade where they could've invested into the game. Especially invest in ways to attract new players. They didn't. Now they're paying the price. I'm just here to enjoy the fall.

 

[Nathir]

But I agree Techies rework is disappointing.

then you dont know much about the game

this is literally the first time in history that techies can gank and teamfight

techies now feels like a full fledged player, previously it basically meant 4v5

But why would techies need to gank and teamfight when there are multiple heroes that do that already, and better at that? In fact all the hero changes since 7.0 focus on making the heroes faster, easier to play, and more teamfight oriented. The game itself has been pushed into a 2-1-2 lane setup, with constant teamfighting since min 15.

 

[luj1]

But why would techies need to gank and teamfight when there are multiple heroes that do that already, and better at that?

because more versatile heroes is better than useless heroes

you can go mid with techies now, why is that bad?

The game itself has been pushed into a 2-1-2 lane setup, with constant teamfighting since min 15.

2-1-2 is way more dynamic than trilane where the carry just farms and offlane is trying to survive/leech and nothing is happening

u can still trilane ofc but 2-1-2 feels more natural and intended

In fact all the hero changes since 7.0 focus on making the heroes faster, easier to play, and more teamfight oriented.

faster yes. Dota has always been the fastest moba. HoN was also pretty fast. LoL is a slow motion java game

more teamfight oriented also yes. No one wants to watch people farm for 30 minutes, people want dynamic matches with crazy shit happening and crazy teamfights and comebacks

easier to play no. Tell me which hero is easier to play now than before? you have more of everything now and every hero has effectively gotten 1-3 new skills via talents or shards

 

[Nathir]

But why would techies need to gank and teamfight when there are multiple heroes that do that already, and better at that?

because more versatile heroes is better than useless heroes

you can go mid with techies now, why is that bad?

The game itself has been pushed into a 2-1-2 lane setup, with constant teamfighting since min 15.

2-1-2 is way more dynamic than trilane where the carry just farms and offlane is trying to survive/leech and nothing is happening

u can still trilane ofc but 2-1-2 feels more natural and intended

In fact all the hero changes since 7.0 focus on making the heroes faster, easier to play, and more teamfight oriented.

faster yes. Dota has always been the fastest moba. HoN was also pretty fast. LoL is a slow motion java game

more teamfight oriented also yes. No one wants to watch people farm for 30 minutes, people want dynamic matches with crazy shit happening and crazy teamfights and comebacks

easier to play no. Tell me which hero is easier to play now than before? you have more of everything now and every hero has effectively gotten 1-3 new skills via talents or shards

Techies was not any more useless before the rework than he is now. You still don't see him in pro games, and his winrate hasn't significantly increased. According to dotabuff he has 46% wr in divine+immortal. Sniper has 47%, and this hero has been very bad for years now. You can go mid with techies now, but you can go mid with many other heroes. In return you lose a hero that offers a much more unique playstyle. Now don't get me wrong, I hated old techies. But he was a unique addition to the game and offered a playstyle you couldn't get anywhere else. Now you can go mid and spam Q to farm and harrass? Amazing. Never been done before.

Dota always was fast paced, that is true. When I said they are making the heroes faster I literally meant that. Mostly having in mind movespeed increases across the board, or giving mobility to heroes that usually did not have it, like Zeus jump or Nightstalker flight, and new heroes generally having crazy mobility. Like MK, Marci, Pango. As a result the map gets smaller, split pushing is less effective and you get constant 4v4s while the carry tries to farm.

Even in the era of "farming for 30 minutes" matches were dynamic with crazy shit happening all the time. It's just your opinion that was boring. Carry was always the most popular role besides mid. So it's not like people hate farming. And the other 4 players weren't literally sitting in fountain waiting for the carry to farm up, they were doing their own thing. Besides, Dota always had crazy teamfights. But it also had more variety and strategy in how you approach the game.

Which hero is easier to play? Well, techies for an example. You used to have a gameplan and a different set of mind to make him work. Now you can go mid and farm e-blade/dagon. Wow. Speaking of E-blade/dagon KotL is another great example of a somewhat weird hero that was changed to be more easier. Now he is a nuker that also gets an AoE CC ability. Visage gets an ability to activate stone form for his familiars, so noobs can group everything up and A-move forward. There were some wierd changes made to Chen during the years, where he got an ability that passively increases regen of teammates. And all you had to do was stay in lane and right click the enemy to win it. But he was known as one of the more micro intensive heroes. Enchantress can now get Impetus at start. Fuck microing creeps, just show up on lane and hit your enemy for 20% every few seconds. Zeus gets a jump, to remove his only weakness. Windrunner can move and attack during her ult. Razor can also move and attack during his link. Slark ult is not invisibility anymore, you become completely untargetable. The patch logs during the years are full of reduced cast points and turn rates. Drow ult got changed from bonus agility to procs of bonus damage that ignore armor and evasion. You don't even need items, you will melt anyone with your ult. Templar assassin gets stun at lvl 25, removing her only weakness (no CC).

You can't deny changes during the years are just giving heroes stuff they don't need, free damage, and making them more straightforward and easier to play. Coupled with the gold inflation and regen being a non-issue the game lost a lot of tactical/strategic depth.

 

[luj1]

yeah, no