Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[InspectorRumpole]

Been playing close to 6k hours so far, so I'm not against paying a bit for some extra features.

I might try out a month and see if it's worth it.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

These tools has been available as 3rd party subscription for quite a while (Dotaplus etc).

I guess valve see how many people are subscribed to those services and say "Hey we are the that should be monetizing this"

Regarding the death analysis a friend of mine said that it is fancy but didn't actually do much. The lane and build features are game statistic based. Honestly if somebody like tortedelini or other want to make lane specific guide they could.

 

[Sentinel]

Yeah the assistant is worthless unless you're a 2k shitter. And even then I'm not sure it helps at all.
I was positively surprised by the extremely low sub price btw. When I read "dota 2 subscription" I was thinking 15/month.
4€/month is pretty ok for progression systems, cosmetic shit & battle cup if you're into it.

 

[CptMace]

Can a charitable soul fill me in with a quick tl;dr on the situation ?
I can't play dota since january, don't have my rig with me atm, so I didn't follow the news. So we pay to win now ?

 

[Sentinel]

http://www.dota2.com/plus

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Can a charitable soul fill me in with a quick tl;dr on the situation ?
I can't play dota since january, don't have my rig with me atm, so I didn't follow the news. So we pay to win now ?

I would say no. Basically Dota2 always had an API to get the game statistics. This API had been used by a lot of 3rd parties such as Opendota, Dotabuff, Dotaplus which always offered subscription services to get more detailed data such as item and skill build, laning meta, heroes matchups etc. Dotaplus even has an overlay for the ingame picking phase.

What valve did was probably using the API, or most probably a more advanced version of it seeing that they are the devs, to give those information in-game. The only p2w aspects I could think of is more detailed death breakdown (how much magical, physical, from which heroes, how time you are disabled) which I feel won't affect much for people above 2k. Other thing is now your networth is displayed along with your kda and cs which give you a better sense on your progression. The end game statistics is also more detailed, which kinda let you learn more from games I think?

Tldr, it is not really p2w as the same service has been provided by 3rd parties for the last 2 to 3 years, albeit you need to subscribe to more of these services and most of the info was not accessible in game. Valve now give the same service which is accessible in-game.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

I tried a month for the money I made off selling items, just to check it out.

I don't think I'll be using the assistant. Maybe it's mostly for inexperienced players.

It seems the sets can't be marketed. Besides that, you get hero phrases and reliqs (like the tracking gems).

I don't think I'll be extending after the month is up, unless they add something more.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Additionally it also gives quest ala battle pass for each hero which rewards you with some progression point and dotaplus point. The progression points give you medals on the hero you played and unlocks hero response chatweel. You can exchange the dotaplus point for hats (some dotaplus specific, some older sets).

Once again quest is some what retarded and encourage bad plays so like the battlepasses before I think it shouldnbe disabled in ranked. The one in Treant was landing 3 or more root for 300 sec as the 1st star or some shit

 

[you know what time it is]

Thing is, battle cup and stats should have been free and implemented a long time ago. Even SC2 had auto-tournaments (free) and that's from nu-blizzard in 2015 for fucks sake. Stats were always there to begin with, just not displayed due to someone's decision (I remember reading about this way back, may be it was Gaben himself).

Ten thousand years later they come out with the basics and are asking for money as well? Yeah, pass. If it was just a thing with hats and quests i'd throw a few shekels, no questions asked. But the assistant and battlecup should be available for everyone.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Well as I said the data has always been visible. The API is IIRC open for everybody and you could probably make it appear if you know programming and study the API. 3rd party sites I mentioned pretty much has access to them and you need to subscribe to see them. And people been paying them for a while so Valve might thinks "why not." Would it be nice if Valve went and make the statistics free? Absolutely. But currently nothing change except you could pay GabeN to see them. I personally feels this change nothing and I will not be subscribing for those data.

Battlecup should be free is also a nice QoL thing, but as I said, this new subscription changes shit compared to the time of Battle Pass. You could also buy a ticket for one dollar back then. So there is no change in this regard as well.

As I said besides Battle Pass things being pretty much permanent this time around, nothing really changes from before and after the subscription. The only things that did change is a)those detailed death explanation b)net worth display c)the info you get from 3rd party sites is now displayed in games

To be honest for most casual player you could use Dotabuff and Opendota freely and you pretty much get those data valve is selling. Skill pick is purely statistic (e.g. for every game won by Spirit Breaker what x% of each skill being leveled in each level, in this case for Level 1 its 83% Charge, 17% Bash). Using Tortedelini guide is accurate like 80% of the time regarding most common player. The same with item build.

The only thing that you probably could no get easily is meta matchups and pcik/ban suggestions. But like as I said before, you could make the data appear by paying 3rd parties before. And it was legal and a lot of streamers used it so nothing really change.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

You sound pretty entitled tbh.

You can't compare SC2 to dota, as they're games with totally different business models.

And it's not just the basics dota+ offers. It has a trend tab where you can compare your hero's performance against each rank out there, and see trends in talent picks for each tier.

I doubt a lot of dota players care about that.

 

[you know what time it is]

Asking for fair playing grounds for everyone is not entitlement, p2w is a big deal no matter how useless it is at higher levels of play. I dropped more $ on dotes than any other game in existence, besides i'd buy the damn thing if it was just quests and hats as I mentioned above, but as long as they are selling game-changing features - i'm not interested.

As far as bcups go, it's supposed to be a breeding ground for new talent (with a few tweaks). Instead it was always locked behind a moronic paywall AND time window with as little features as possible. So I can't really see how people can argue that it's fine, it's a stub forever stuck in limbo of missed opportunities and lazy design.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Asking for fair playing grounds for everyone is not entitlement, p2w is a big deal no matter how useless it is at higher levels of play. I dropped more $ on dotes than any other game in existence, besides i'd buy the damn thing if it was just quests and hats as I mentioned above, but as long as they are selling game-changing features - i'm not interested.

As far as bcups go, it's supposed to be a breeding ground for new talent (with a few tweaks). Instead it was always locked behind a moronic paywall AND time window with as little features as possible. So I can't really see how people can argue that it's fine, it's a stub forever stuck in limbo of missed opportunities and lazy design.

Well yeah if you thing the 3 things I mentioned are p2w its fine.

Btw you could get I dunno, 60 - 70% of what Dota+ offers by visiting these sites and having a guide

Want to see a hero/multiple heroes counters?

http://dotapicker.com/counterpick

Want to see the win rate/ pick rate of each hero?

https://www.dotabuff.com/

Want to see item/ability suggestions?

https://www.dotabuff.com/

Want to see your deaths summaries?

https://www.opendota.com/

Better Post game analysis?

https://www.opendota.com/ or https://www.dotabuff.com/
Want to see a hero/multiple heroes counters?

http://dotapicker.com/counterpick

Want to see the win rate/ pick rate of each hero?

https://www.dotabuff.com/

Want to see item/ability suggestions?

https://www.dotabuff.com/

Want to see your deaths summaries?

https://www.opendota.com/

Better Post game analysis?

https://www.opendota.com/ or https://www.dotabuff.com/

https://www.overwolf.com/app/Overwolf-DotaPlus is also nice, but it is a resource hog for you PC

 

[Great Deceiver]

The metrics/features are pretty primitive and I can only see them really helping if you're bad at the game (2/3k).

 

[InspectorRumpole]

I'd even argue that the user submitted guides are better if you want to learn the game.

They got desciptions of the use of a skill or item.

Picking something because it's recommended doesn't teach you anything really.

 

[Mr. Pink]

HOLY FUGGING SHIT MY BOYS ICEICEICE AND MUSHI WON A MAJOR!!!!!

also, first SEA champions of a major. Honorable mention to TNC for slaying Liquid and taking a game off VP

 

[InD_ImaginE]

As a fan of SEA and CN region, feels really good, especially because people has been saying that Mushi is washed up for a while. He played great most of the tournament. Still some classic Mushi moment but he otherwise played well. Ice3 is a beast period. Ninjaboogie is surprisingly very good as a support too. A grade warding game, A grade positioning, A grade teamfight decision.

EDIT: the best play of the tournament (and honestly the best play up to this point in 2018) tho goes for lower bracket final game 3 LGD vs VP. To all of you, watch it. If you dont have time, watch at least the last 15 - 20 minutes to at least understand what condition the game was in and what a fucking great play that happened on that game.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Congrats Mushit.

After DAC, I'm confident the next patch will nerf Firestorm damage to Roshan.

Re: LGD vs VP game 3, that was the best Dark Rift play I've ever seen. That was VP's game to lose.

 

[you know what time it is]

Underlord won me so many games in ranked grind, but boi's gotta get nerfed. WP SEA tho, been a long time coming.

 

[Mr. Pink]

I don't actually play the game anymore, but is AM really shitty now? Lots of Chinese flaming LGD.Ame right now for getting caught out of position 2-3 times in game 5 of the grand final, but looking back to games before patch 7.00, even the very best AM players like Burning would have on average 2 or 3 acceptable deaths per game and still end up carrying the team once they got their 5th slot. Now it seems like the margin of error is so thin that AM isn't worth picking at all unless the entire enemy team is squishy INT carries. Does anyone respect a 6 slotted AM anymore? Why ever pick AM when there are carries that farm faster, hit harder and have more utility, like Terrorblade or Lifestealer?

 

[Great Deceiver]

The problem with game 5 wasn't necessarily the AM pick, but Mineski had Lifestealer and Magnus. This means that Naix could keep up with AM in farm and benefit from better teamfight. It wasn't just the pick that lost them the game. It was a complete outdraft with Mineski having Death Prophet and Disruptor (with aghs), it was impossible to fight into them.

That said, AM is in a bad place right now because the pace of the game is really fast and he takes too long to come online. Terrorblade can fight whenever meta is up at all stages of the game, AM is just bitch weak without 3 items. Usually this is counteracted by AM's superior farming ability, but the pace of the game is simply too fast now. Spectre faces similar problems, which is why she's never picked.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Blink, get RP, ded. Blink, get silenced, ded. Blink, can't manfight LS, get silenced/glimpsed, ded. That was a horrible last pick, picking it into so much CC and silence.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Game's really dead, huh? My last match was a month ago and I have zero desire to play. In fact, I don't have any desire to watch any streams either - in the past, even when I didn't feel like playing I'd still watch a lot of Dota.

It lasted 7 years. RIP.

 

[RolePlayer]

i've been playing a lot of dota 2 lately .. is there an RPGCodex channel in the game or anything?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

On the opposite, while I dont play much of the game, maybe 2 or 3 a week, I ve been following tournaments very closely.

This TI is probably the closest we have the same team.winning 2nd TI back to back as Liquid is looking as strong albeit less consistent than as their run before and on TI7.