Dota 2 Discussion (~Boston Majors & Road to TI7~)

[Mr. Pink]

Since I expect to get an underwhelming response (or none at all) from PlayDota: where did this Vlads/Manta/Diffu void build come from?

since the 6.86 void rework that transformed him from hard carry to hard carry that is also a support. vlads is situational on void, and manta and diffu exist to keep void alive long enough to chrono. every item void gets exists to make getting chronos easier.

edit: universe popularized the offlane void, but i don't know the origins of it.

 

[Great Deceiver]

I wouldn't say vlads is a situational item on offlane void, I'd say it's built the vast majority of the time. He's an excellent offlaner because of the high base armour and especially after the timewalk rework that enables him to selectively backtrack heavy harass. As soon as he gets level 6 he will usually (if the Void player is competent and is playing with a decent team) tp to another lane and secure a kill with his ult, pushing a tower with the advantage afterwards. Vlads helps with this teamfight mentality.

Manta/Diffusal has always been somewhat popular but recently diffusal got buffed significantly for melee heroes, so people build it on void and jug too. They're both very cost-effective items that allow you to dodge spells, get out of silences and purge ghost scepters, which are very common counters for those right clickers. The combination of manta diffusal is a very effective DPS increase, too, so you will see this when Void transitions into more of a carry role or if his team needs damage. If his team has plenty of damage already you will see the Void going for Blink/Aghs instead.

 

[Ninjerk]

Since I expect to get an underwhelming response (or none at all) from PlayDota: where did this Vlads/Manta/Diffu void build come from?

since the 6.86 void rework that transformed him from hard carry to hard carry that is also a support. vlads is situational on void, and manta and diffu exist to keep void alive long enough to chrono. every item void gets exists to make getting chronos easier.

edit: universe popularized the offlane void, but i don't know the origins of it.

Offlane void is TI4 era (very likely Universe played the first incarnation of it). I was referring specifically to the Vlads/Manta/Diffusal combination, as the prior offlane voids were, and my memory is pretty shaky here, Treads/cheap ASPD (MoM or Maelstrom)/Aghanims, I think.

 

[Mr. Pink]

 

[Ninjerk]

??

 

[Saark]

The Vlads pickup on Void has existed for some time now, ever since Void returned to the offlane after not being played for the majority of 2015 he has always built into vlads>blink>Aghs on the offlane. It was usually meant to enable Void to farm without losing HP/little Mana (similar to why AMs used to build it) while also providing useful auras to the team during teamfights (it was a str-core based meta that usually had physical-damage dealing cores only so the armor aura was the most important one). Teams soon realized that this void, while useful for teamfights, provided very little else during the game so he disappeared for a month or two. He was too reliant on his team to actually deal damaged during the chrono, and teams hadn't figured out which heroes were supposed to actually do that. That was during the time where TB was pretty much the only ranged-carry that was being played, and he already dropped off even before he got his nerf in 6.88b. Nowadays teams have heroes like ET, Morph, Mirana or Timbersaw to deal large amount of damage during chrono, none of which were figured out to be insanely strong heroes back then.

Eventually Void returned as a pick, but in the safelane instead. The chinese teams as well as a couple of NA teams started picking up void again, baiting a couple of bans before putting him in the safelane. The hero hadn't been used as a "carry" for a while now so this actually worked for a bit. Since he was now supposed to at least semi-carry again he needed a better itembuild. That's where the vlads>diffu>manta build become strong again, since it enabled Void to safely kill most heroes in a 1v1 scenario or during chrono, while also providing a decent amount of defensive utility since teams usually picked silences instead of hard disables against him. The diffusal changes in 6.87 (almost doubling the damage dealt by the mainhero) made this build a very strong damage build as well. Since then the hero has been a safelane staple for a couple of teams, while others prefer to run him in the offlane but still keeping pretty much the same itembuild while adding a blink into it at some point in the game.

 

[InspectorRumpole]

Since OG choked and got knocked out, I'm really torn between DC and MVP as the team to root for.

I'm really surprised by how scrappy DC are. They just keep winning when they're not supposed to. And MVP are just fun to watch.

 

[Cromwell]

Since OG choked and got knocked out, I'm really torn between DC and MVP as the team to root for.

I'm really surprised by how scrappy DC are. They just keep winning when they're not supposed to. And MVP are just fun to watch.

I would like to see dc fight for 1st place but then I would have to listen to the crowd squeal like they got kicked in the balls and call it howling again.

 

[you know what time it is]

Pa pickers, forever unclean.

Spoiler

I love aggressive dota though

 

[InD_ImaginE]

MVP actually one of the few team that make PA pick works on competitive level. There is a reason for "PA is hero pub low mmr scrub games" opinion people are having.

 

[Great Deceiver]

Cheering for EG because Fear is the most consistent player in the history of Dota.

 

[Malakal]

MVP actually one of the few team that make PA pick works on competitive level. There is a reason for "PA is hero pub low mmr scrub games" opinion people are having.

I always thought that pa has a very good timing early on with max blink-dagger where she can get plenty of kills. Then she falls off midgame and shines a bit late game due to massive crits. As such I think pa would work only with aggressive early play like MVP does, at least in competitive..

 

[Cromwell]

Cheering for EG because Fear is the most consistent player in the history of Dota.

it would also be cool if he was not only part of the first team to win two tournaments but also do it in a row.

 

[Saark]

MVP actually one of the few team that make PA pick works on competitive level. There is a reason for "PA is hero pub low mmr scrub games" opinion people are having.

I always thought that pa has a very good timing early on with max blink-dagger where she can get plenty of kills. Then she falls off midgame and shines a bit late game due to massive crits. As such I think pa would work only with aggressive early play like MVP does, at least in competitive..

Really only works for them because they pair it up with bountyhunter and darkseer. Tracking up everything, pulling and kiting the opposing team away from each other by surging their melee cores away/slowing with stifling dagger or vaccing them away - until they see an opening for PA to jump in and pick off a target. They do that for like 20-30seconds during larger teamfights and come out ahead in the end. Thats how they took apart OG and that was their plan against wings, wings just stuck together and protected their supports better than OG did.

They also had Spiritbreaker in both games. It's really all about outmaneuvering their opponent thanks to superior movement speed (track/surge/empowering haste to constantly move at 450+ms while PA throws daggers/sb charges through/DS vacs). Unless you have hard lockdown, you're not gonna catch your target and eventually PA crits or has enough room to blink in.

 

[Inspectah]

Whats up with the no carry lineup?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Yeah the Dark Seer last pick was odd.

 

[Ninjerk]

First thought when Kaci said they couldn't find Slacks: "Thank GOD."

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Aw yish. SEA Doto Top 4.
The second match was close though, I actually thought MVP got the 2nd game. The riki was somewhat not effective enough mid game onwards. The void was just so underfarmed rhough and they put too much on the Sven's back.

Now crush EG, Wings.

 

[Ninjerk]

Aw yish. SEA Doto Top 4.
The second match was close though, I actually thought MVP got the 2nd game. The riki was somewhat not effective enough mid game onwards. The void was just so underfarmed rhough and they put too much on the Sven's back.

Now crush EG, Wings.

Forev was more than underfarmed. There had to be near a half dozen fights he ran away from with Chrono up.

 

[Cromwell]

First thought when Kaci said they couldn't find Slacks: "Thank GOD."

They have a lot of cringeworthy shit this year including purge as the weather forecast guy (although I like him), the augmented reality stuff and they should kill the guy who came up with the idea to start every match in this 3d mode. Also, nobody should ever be forced to watch slacks "interviewing" heroes or play this stupid "know your teammates" game.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Forev was more than underfarmed. There had to be near a half dozen fights he ran away from with Chrono up.

MVP was probably thinking better let the void go so he would be able to farm and go for ultra late game or something. Buuuut it never comes into that. The void was never able to farm.


On the other news, wigs have no hard carry pick on 1st game.

 

[Ninjerk]

Forev was more than underfarmed. There had to be near a half dozen fights he ran away from with Chrono up.

MVP was probably thinking better let the void go so he would be able to farm and go for ultra late game or something. Buuuut it never comes into that. The void was never able to farm.


On the other news, wigs have no hard carry pick on 1st game.

What's to stop them from getting ratted to death?

 

[InD_ImaginE]

What's to stop them from getting ratted to death?

Snowball? But EG actually get the first blood. I think EG will win the first game.

 

[Ninjerk]

What's to stop them from getting ratted to death?

Snowball? But EG actually get the first blood. I think EG will win the first game.

I guess so. It looks like a lineup from a much older TI.

 

[you know what time it is]

Don't like Wings pick, but then again, a lot of their picks look shit on paper.