Dishonored by Arkane

[Multi-headed Cow]

Aren't the DLCs adding "Master Assassin" difficulty? Try play with that, because you're otherwise missing out on an excellent game.

Only the DLC has that difficulty. It's not added to the base game because Arkane cannot into videogame.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Dishonored is hard enough if you play on "very hard" and also do the ghost (i.e. no one can spot you for the entire game), clean hands (no killing anyone), and no upgrading supernatural powers achievements all in one playthrough. That's what I did my first playthrough and it had some challenging moments, especially when it came to not being noticed.

You can say, "But that's no fun!" but the game doesn't play all that differently than expert mode "thief" when played like this---the biggest difference being that Dishonored plays a bit flat without Thief's light/dark stealth system (shooting out torches and playing with light and shadow adds an extra level of gameplay to Thief that Dishonored sadly lacks).

 

[LundB]

Any game can be hard as long as you impose enough artificial limitations on yourself. That's like saying an easy FPS is hard enough because it can have challenging moments if you limit yourself to the starting pistol for the entire game.

 

[DalekFlay]

The simple fact is everything else about the game is so good that either ignoring the lack of difficulty or adding your own challenge means you get to experience a great game. My ghost playthrough was very fun and often challenging, and the game is designed for it, it's not like you're larping.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Any game can be hard as long as you impose enough artificial limitations on yourself. That's like saying an easy FPS is hard enough because it can have challenging moments if you limit yourself to the starting pistol for the entire game.

Of course. However, well-designed games can still be very fun and challenging in a good way with certain self-imposed restrictions. Limiting yourself to the starting pistol in Modern Warfare just makes it frustrating and dumb, for example. On the other hand, Dark Souls becomes quite easy for experienced players, but can still be very fun if you put a heavy restriction on yourself (like not levelling your stats, or not wearing armor), because you can utilize all your meta-knowledge without instantly becoming extremely powerful. Same reason people play EU or Crusader Kings with these small doomed nations - if the core gameplay is good enough, you just need to impose enough penalties on yourself to give the AI a fighting chance.

I don't really know if this is true of Dishonored though, where it seems like the most fun way to play would be to kill everyone and abuse powers for maximum chaos and destruction.

 

[DalekFlay]

I don't really know if this is true of Dishonored though, where it seems like the most fun way to play would be to kill everyone and abuse powers for maximum chaos and destruction.

The game, on hard difficulty, is actually much more difficult if you play it as a run and gun shooter. Ghosting is somewhat difficult, and fun for stealth fans anyway. The absolutely dumb easy way to play it is lethal sneaking, which has barely any difficulty what-so-ever in the main game. DLCs are a little tougher.

 

[Morgoth]

Blink, sneak, choke and drag away: This is the playstyle I always come back to.

 

[toro]

After finishing Dark Souls I'm in some kind of gaming withdrawal state so I decided to try the Dishonored DLCs.

I finished them on Master Assassin level. Took me around 8h which is quite a lot for some DLCs but I wanted to explore everything. Which I did.

But I also killed everything for the sole reason that Dishonored is never going to be a proper stealth game. Or a good game for that matter.

You start with Blink, all the levels are designed for this ability and most of the action happens during the day (which is retarded).

Ghosting with Blink is a non-achievement, ghosting without Blink is just blind masochism (on the last difficulty level the enemies are seeing you from miles ahead so save scumming is unavoidable).

So it doesn't matter anyway. I've maxed Blink and Shadow Kill and I've rolled through the entire game without giving a shit about the enemies. It works. You can blink and stab everything.

Bottom line: The new story is told well and the new locations are interesting (especially the Manor) but is the same old Dishonored soup.

They could do a great Thief game but for that they would have to remove those retarded powers. But we all know that will never happen. What a shame.

 

[DeepOcean]

After finishing Dark Souls I'm in some kind of gaming withdrawal state so I decided to try the Dishonored DLCs.

I finished them on Master Assassin level. Took me around 8h which is quite a lot for some DLCs but I wanted to explore everything. Which I did.

But I also killed everything for the sole reason that Dishonored is never going to be a proper stealth game. Or a good game for that matter.

You start with Blink, all the levels are designed for this ability and most of the action happens during the day (which is retarded).

Ghosting with Blink is a non-achievement, ghosting without Blink is just blind masochism (on the last difficulty level the enemies are seeing you from miles ahead so save scumming is unavoidable).

So it doesn't matter anyway. I've maxed Blink and Shadow Kill and I've rolled through the entire game without giving a shit about the enemies. It works. You can blink and stab everything.

Bottom line: The new story is told well and the new locations are interesting (especially the Manor) but is the same old Dishonored soup.

They could do a great Thief game but for that they would have to remove those retarded powers. But we all know that will never happen. What a shame.

Man, removing the powers isn't even necessary, make all the levels happening during night and add a proper shadow based stealth to avoid the: I didn't wanted to cheat use the powers so a guard saw me and I couldn't do anything about it because there is no shadow for me to hide and observe his patrol behavior.Another thing they could do is to remove the ability of automaticaly move without making a sound while crouching and add that as an optional power, so those easy executions/knockouts wouldn't be so easy without the power.

They could even cheat and give you the power of you being able to see "Outsider shadows" or whatever the name they can come with so you have shadows even during the day. They are "shadows" in the sense that the enemy doesn't automaticaly see you when you are inside of them but can see you if they are too close, they could easily explain that away as they being rifts that lead to the Outsider domain that only you can see and you become invisible while inside them. They could even give you an "Outsider light gem" to allow you to see how well hidden by the outsider shadows you are. They could even add the ability of the guards to look up because there are outsider shadows now, it is just silly how in Dishonored becuase the guards can't look up walking on the rooftops is easy time. They could even add the power to create outsider shadows wathever you want but limited to three times in a level. That way you have the popamolers having their way and the Thief fans having their way.

The possibilities are limitless.The big problem was that Dishonored wasn't made having stealth as priority. They know that most people just kill their way through out the levels, so why waste resources with the minority that likes ghosting?Why wasting time implementing a proper sound and shadow system if most people just kill everything in sight and like to play the game as a FPS that allow stealth sometimes?

 

[CrisGer]

it is a strange game..i had high hopes during the intro ..and they lasted a bit...but the rats and the dead people all over and the sad dark story... nuff of that in real life...but i may try again someday.

 

[Rahdulan]

Man, removing the powers isn't even necessary, make all the levels happening during night and add a proper shadow based stealth to avoid the: I didn't wanted to cheat use the powers so a guard saw me and I couldn't do anything about it because there is no shadow for me to hide and observe his patrol behavior.Another thing they could do is to remove the ability of automaticaly move without making a sound while crouching and add that as an optional power, so those easy executions/knockouts wouldn't be so easy without the power.

It's even worse because actual shadow/lighting based stealth was in at one point before they cut it out for whatever reason and, according to one post-release interview I can't for the life of me find right now, powers originally used health as resource before testing showed players didn't like that very much. I suppose that's where the game went from a "stealth game with players weighing risk vs reward" to "YOU'RE A GOD AND NO ONE HAS ANY COUNTER TO YOUR POWERS".

 

[Castanova]

The simple fact is everything else about the game is so good that either ignoring the lack of difficulty or adding your own challenge means you get to experience a great game. My ghost playthrough was very fun and often challenging, and the game is designed for it, it's not like you're larping.

I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. The mission design in Dishonored is atrocious. You never have to solve any puzzles or problems, you never have to even think. You just wait a minute to see people's routines, then you blink in and kill them all. In storytelling, they say that a story is only as good as the villain. In Dishonored, the "villain" is massively outclassed. You are a practically unkillable superhero (actually better than that, because unlike most superheroes you have multiple insane superpowers) and your opponents are a sprinkling of human guards with poor AI. Even in the final level, where the boss of the game is literally hiding away FROM YOU in his so-called "fortress," your only opponents are basically the same outclassed human guards who wander around solo in a sparsely populated compound with at least two completely open entrances. It's as if the place was specifically designed to be infiltrated by someone just like you! Oh wait a second, now. To get to the final boss in that level, you have to kill, what, 10 guys? At most? Nothing is locked down, nothing requires thought, you don't have to even figure out a specific sequence of exploration. Just watch, blink, kill. Achievement unlocked.

 

[DeepOcean]

Man, removing the powers isn't even necessary, make all the levels happening during night and add a proper shadow based stealth to avoid the: I didn't wanted to cheat use the powers so a guard saw me and I couldn't do anything about it because there is no shadow for me to hide and observe his patrol behavior.Another thing they could do is to remove the ability of automaticaly move without making a sound while crouching and add that as an optional power, so those easy executions/knockouts wouldn't be so easy without the power.

It's even worse because actual shadow/lighting based stealth was in at one point before they cut it out for whatever reason and, according to one post-release interview I can't for the life of me find right now, powers originally used health as resource before testing showed players didn't like that very much. I suppose that's where the game went from a "stealth game with players weighing risk vs reward" to "YOU'RE A GOD AND NO ONE HAS ANY COUNTER TO YOUR POWERS".

Even if they kept the powers using health thing, they would just put a health potion each 2 feet to guarantee that any challenge is safely kept away or worse: add regenerating health. Unfortunately, alot of morons play video games these days, the max we can do is ignore the powers. The level design supports a no power playthrough (more because they feared dumbfucks would spend half the game without even realizing they had powers than they trying to appeal to Thief fans.) but the lack of a shadow system is what really hurts the game because stealth become an exercise of saving scumming very fast without it. So, if you are a stealth game fan, using the powers will leave you unsatisfied and if you don't, prepare for saving scumming as toro mentioned. They, at least, with the DLCs added choke bombs, so you aren't forced to kill all the guards anyway because of a mistake.

 

[toro]

Man, removing the powers isn't even necessary, make all the levels happening during night and add a proper shadow based stealth to avoid the: I didn't wanted to cheat use the powers so a guard saw me and I couldn't do anything about it because there is no shadow for me to hide and observe his patrol behavior.Another thing they could do is to remove the ability of automaticaly move without making a sound while crouching and add that as an optional power, so those easy executions/knockouts wouldn't be so easy without the power.

It's even worse because actual shadow/lighting based stealth was in at one point before they cut it out for whatever reason and, according to one post-release interview I can't for the life of me find right now, powers originally used health as resource before testing showed players didn't like that very much. I suppose that's where the game went from a "stealth game with players weighing risk vs reward" to "YOU'RE A GOD AND NO ONE HAS ANY COUNTER TO YOUR POWERS".

Even if they kept the powers using health thing, they would just put a health potion each 2 feet to guarantee that any challenge is safely kept away or worse: add regenerating health. Unfortunately, alot of morons play video games these days, the max we can do is ignore the powers. The level design supports a no power playthrough (more because they feared dumbfucks would spend half the game without even realizing they had powers than they trying to appeal to Thief fans.) but the lack of a shadow system is what really hurts the game because stealth become an exercise of saving scumming very fast without it. So, if you are a stealth game fan, using the powers will leave you unsatisfied and if you don't, prepare for saving scumming as toro mentioned. They, at least, with the DLCs added choke bombs, so you aren't forced to kill all the guards anyway because of a mistake.

I mostly agree. But the level design doesn't support a clean no-power playthrough because there are places which you cannot reach without Blink. So, you either have to give up to quite a lot of stuff or you simulate amnesia for the moments when you are using powers.

Unrelated: Changing Blink with an augmented Big Jump would change completely the game.

 

[DraQ]

Unrelated: Changing Blink with an augmented Big Jump would change completely the game.

Aimed jump.

Same interface, precise, eliminates derpy platforming, yet isn't magically stealthy.

Also, spells should have been cast from HPs.

 

[DalekFlay]

The simple fact is everything else about the game is so good that either ignoring the lack of difficulty or adding your own challenge means you get to experience a great game. My ghost playthrough was very fun and often challenging, and the game is designed for it, it's not like you're larping.

I don't know how you can say that with a straight face. The mission design in Dishonored is atrocious. You never have to solve any puzzles or problems, you never have to even think. You just wait a minute to see people's routines, then you blink in and kill them all. In storytelling, they say that a story is only as good as the villain. In Dishonored, the "villain" is massively outclassed. You are a practically unkillable superhero (actually better than that, because unlike most superheroes you have multiple insane superpowers) and your opponents are a sprinkling of human guards with poor AI. Even in the final level, where the boss of the game is literally hiding away FROM YOU in his so-called "fortress," your only opponents are basically the same outclassed human guards who wander around solo in a sparsely populated compound with at least two completely open entrances. It's as if the place was specifically designed to be infiltrated by someone just like you! Oh wait a second, now. To get to the final boss in that level, you have to kill, what, 10 guys? At most? Nothing is locked down, nothing requires thought, you don't have to even figure out a specific sequence of exploration. Just watch, blink, kill. Achievement unlocked.

I said myself that lethal stealth is extremely easy in Dishonored, so I don't know what you think you're educating me on. Ghosting is a good bit harder, but blink and time freezing still makes it kind of easy. Full on Bioshock clone FPS fighting is actually the hardest way to play the game, at least on the highest difficulty. My non-lethal and no powers playthrough, which I did because achievements made it seem like they balanced for it, was pretty rough and rewarding. Lots of quick-loads were had.

At the end of the day my point was the gameplay and aesthetics make it a great experience no matter the challenge level. You can of course disagree, some people are focused on challenge and little else.

As for the ending I completely disagree. The end of the game was more of the same solid gameplay that came before, which I respect. I hate when games make the last 30 minutes feel completely different and super aggravating.

 

[Castanova]

You missed my point, it seems. It's not about easy vs. hard for the player. It's about easy vs. hard for the character you're playing. Think about what you are actually DOING in that game. Hint -- you are waiting around then blinking (either to kill people or to pass them). There is a massive disconnect with what your character is conceptually doing and what you are actually doing. There was not one second in that entire game where I felt like "OK, I am actually infiltrating this spot in a way that is cohesive with the world they've constructed." It's because completing every mission/task in the game is so straightforward. Just blink past the oblivious and helpless guards and go to the next waypoint. In reality, if you were trying to defend against a stealth operative who is capable of blinking + a host of other ridiculously overpowered abilities, you wouldn't say, "Hey, you 10 guards... pick up your machine guns and go walk around my house all night long. Yeah! That'll put a stop to him!"

 

[DalekFlay]

Yes, blink, especially when leveled up, is very overpowered. Never said otherwise. Game is still supremely enjoyable if you can look past that.

 

[Infinitron]

GOTY Edition announced: http://gamebanshee.com/news/112272-dishonored-game-of-the-year-edition-announced.html

 

[DalekFlay]

Kind of pointless on PC but it's good for console gamers to get the DLC on a disc.

 

[Roguey]

So a big reason I skipped out on this is because it gives you all these wonderful toys to play with but then punishes you for using them by giving you a bad ending. Does any of the DLC fix that? TIA

 

[FuelBlooded]

So a big reason I skipped out on this is because it gives you all these wonderful toys to play with but then punishes you for using them by giving you a bad ending. Does any of the DLC fix that? TIA

No, they're a separate campaign.

 

[DalekFlay]

So a big reason I skipped out on this is because it gives you all these wonderful toys to play with but then punishes you for using them by giving you a bad ending. Does any of the DLC fix that? TIA

It really is kind of silly that all the powers are lethal and then the ending berates you for being lethal. It's not that important in the grand scheme of things though. Also the DLC campaigns arguably don't do that.

 

[Roguey]

Ehh. Sounds like I'm probably better off waiting for a sequel then.

Not like Beth's going to have them do anything else.

 

[Infinitron]

Ehh. Sounds like I'm probably better off waiting for a sequel then.

Not like Beth's going to have them do anything else.

Do a search for "Arkane System Shock".