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Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

hivemind

Cipher
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Pretty Princess
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Messages
2,386
>capitalist games
full of bugs
conceptually stale
the codemmonkeys that made it hate their 12 hours saturday crunch jobs
all the money goes to buy the publisher CEO a new yacht

>commie games
highest level of polish imaginable
artistic and innovative
made by a team of artists who love the product and feel no alienation from their labour
money gets reinvested into a sequel

Which way, codex comrades?
 
Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Oct 2, 2018
Messages
19,617
>capitalist games
full of bugs
conceptually stale
the codemmonkeys that made it hate their 12 hours saturday crunch jobs
all the money goes to buy the publisher CEO a new yacht

>commie games
highest level of polish imaginable
artistic and innovative
made by a team of artists who love the product and feel no alienation from their labour
money gets reinvested into a sequel

Which way, codex comrades?
National bolshevism, comrade.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
has anyone managed to

get a different outcome at the mercenary tribunal with hardies crew not dying?

is it even possible? :D

I think there’s a lot more give in the tribunal than what I’ve seen—I’ve only run through it a few times because it’s so intense—but the biggest variation I’ve found so far is
what happens to Kim: whether he’s fine or he ends up in the hospital.

When I replayed it going in with more information, I seemed to get further with the mercs, but
all my extra talking just gave me a bunch of bonuses to the shoot-him-in-the-face check and also gave one of the Hardies enough time to run away, which he didn’t do in my other playthrough (where he stuck around and survived).

I haven’t gone in with the horrific necktie equipped yet and I’m feeling like that was a mistake. Or maybe if I
arrested Miss Oranje Disco Dancer I’d be able to convince them she was the real culprit.

***

I cannot find the words for how much I love the end, especially the atmosphere created by the incredible music from the tribunal on.

The tribunal is the climax and then everything after it is like a coda. I saw a lot of PS:T here—the boat ride is like hopping in the portal to the fortress of regrets (with better music).

My first run I beelined for the boat, but in my latest one I caught up with the NPCs who stuck around and talked to them about what happened (sort of like post-game wandering around in other RPGs except it’s actually done well).

After the deliberate gut punch of an anticlimax with the shooter—I really enjoyed getting him to confess and his story was very interesting, but it’s obvious he’s supposed to make you feel like 99% of your murder investigation was a waste of time and the tribunal never needed to happen—meeting the phasmid was perfect. Possibly my favorite moment in any game ever. Kurvitz played me like a goddamned fiddle. One second I was full of despair that everything was such a waste, and then he’s got me practically weeping with joy when the most quixotic quest in the game pays off in the craziest way possible. Even knowing it’s coming on repeat playthroughs, it remains a sublime moment.

My phasmid believed in class struggle (I assume because I was a commie cop):

upload_2019-10-18_4-56-17.jpeg


Right here at the end of the interaction, the phasmid goes from somber/serious/heartfelt to funny in a snap. The timing is magnificent. Just perfectly caps off the whole interaction.

“She was middle class. It doesn’t take a three-metre stick insect to tell you that.”
 
Joined
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Regarding the Hardie boys, at my "best" playthrough so far
only 3 of them die during the shoot-out, and the leader who survived seems pretty glad about that outcome when you come round 2 days later.
But I'll definitely keep in mind to check and see if you can do better than that.
I guess to do better than that you would need to avoid the 3% shot. It's mathematically possible, or game lies.

You can't. Apparently there are a handful checks which are impossible to succeed and it is one of them.
 
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Kyl Von Kull
I absolutely agree with you regarding the coda - the whole "anticlimactic end to detective story" thing is pretty popular in the more cynical examples of the genre, but it really worked for me this time, and the phasmid conversation was a fantastic shift of tone that really capped off the experience on a good note. However, if that is all the variation that there is in the tribunal, I will be very disappointed indeed. Mostly because the lack of variation there combined with the fact that the game deliberately keeps you from figuring the mystery out early kind of makes it seem like they tried too hard to funnel you into this very specific set up. This would be easier to stomach had the game not been so good in terms of reactivity up to that point.

Hmm. Maybe if you do *all of the things* right - arrest the disco dancer, talk ruby out of killing herself, get the black blade and the elusive medicinal spirit - we can unlock the real ending...
 

Prime Junta

Guest
This thread's getting too spoilery for my blood, I'll be dropping out of it until I've finished the game. If you need me, tag me. :salute:
 

Luckmann

Arcane
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Do you lads prefer to distribute early skill points evenly among a large number of skills or do you invest in the same 1-2 ones at successive level ups?
I'm working my way to the end of Day 1 now (jesus christ, what happened, there's still so many i haven't talked to!), so my strategy might change, but I like spending points fast, just so be sure that I'll pass dialogue thresholds for having them chime in.
 

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Kyl Von Kull
I absolutely agree with you regarding the coda - the whole "anticlimactic end to detective story" thing is pretty popular in the more cynical examples of the genre, but it really worked for me this time, and the phasmid conversation was a fantastic shift of tone that really capped off the experience on a good note. However, if that is all the variation that there is in the tribunal, I will be very disappointed indeed. Mostly because the lack of variation there combined with the fact that the game deliberately keeps you from figuring the mystery out early kind of makes it seem like they tried too hard to funnel you into this very specific set up. This would be easier to stomach had the game not been so good in terms of reactivity up to that point.

I’m hopeful, but
yeah it would suck if Kim is the only major variable (not that Detective Pinball’s health isn’t important. Did you ever hear about his secret nickname?).

There are a ton of different permutations going into the tribunal. It wouldn’t surprise me if they made it very hard to get out of that situation peacefully—it should be hard. Maybe you need to equip the alcohol and a cigarette for a Molotov cocktail rather than a weapon. Maybe knowing about the third man will give you an edge—I’ll test that today now that I know failing the red check with Ruby gives you that info.

But if I’m wrong, that would be my biggest gripe with the game. Currently my biggest gripe with Disco is
the Shivers check to get into the FELD building. I think that’s the only way in, although you can do a bunch of side quests to make it much, much, much easier.

PS. If you set your electrochemistry at 1, you only get 3 hits from most drugs.
 

Luckmann

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Lsy3QPl.png


This totally seems like something someone would say in the period you're shooting for.
I think it's funny how Kim interjects with the usual SocJus fare, citing statistics that are frequently manipulated in the real world already, and - just like real SocJus Doubleplusgoods - completely misses the point. Neither Réne or You suggested that women can't perform the same RCM duties as men, but that they perhaps shouldn't.

Not having had the conversation, I can only assume that you never get a chance to point this out, even with high rhetorics?
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I think it's funny how Kim interjects with the usual SocJus fare, citing statistics that are frequently manipulated in the real world already, and - just like real SocJus Doubleplusgoods - completely misses the point. Neither Réne or You suggested that women can't perform the same RCM duties as men, but that they perhaps shouldn't.

Not having had the conversation, I can only assume that you never get a chance to point this out, even with high rhetorics?
You get a chance to share a look with Rene and grumble about Kim's stupidity I believe. At the very least, Rene calls him a retard.
I’m hopeful, but
yeah it would suck if Kim is the only major variable (not that Detective Pinball’s health isn’t important. Did you ever hear about his secret nickname?).

[There are a ton of different permutations going into the tribunal. It wouldn’t surprise me if they made it very hard to get out of that situation peacefully—it should be hard. Maybe you need to equip the alcohol and a cigarette for a Molotov cocktail rather than a weapon. Maybe knowing about the third man will give you an edge—I’ll test that today now that I know failing the red check with Ruby gives you that info.

But if I’m wrong, that would be my biggest gripe with the game. Currently my biggest gripe with Disco is
the Shivers check to get into the FELD building. I think that’s the only way in, although you can do a bunch of side quests to make it much, much, much easier.
Yep, agree with both your points. Who knows, we'll see.
 

Lady_Error

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Well, it is a great game, but a bit short at 20-30 hours - unless you want to replay with a different build and act like a crazy mofo.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Well, it is a great game, but a bit short at 20-30 hours - unless you want to replay with a different build and act like a crazy mofo.
20-30 hours are not so bad. And I thought that playing with different builds was supposed to provide completely different outcomes so replays are welcome etc
 

ItsChon

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
20-30 hours are not so bad. And I thought that playing with different builds was supposed to provide completely different outcomes so replays are welcome etc
I wouldn't go so far as to say completely different. I'd say that you can pretty much exhaust the game of all options sufficiently enough with 2 playthroughs, as one of your stats is going to be a dump stat, whichever way you slice it. Everything after that is just minor roleplay stuff which I don't really factor in when it comes to rating a game's replayability.
 

Urthor

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Ran into some unbeatable checks. As in, the total roll > target number, check still fails. Bug?

Games is great, up to Day 3. There definitely seems a lot of room for optimisation, since you can do a lot of stuff at 2:00 AM.

There's at least two checks that you cannot pass, no matter what. Not even if you go full Bulgarian
 
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Well, it is a great game, but a bit short at 20-30 hours - unless you want to replay with a different build and act like a crazy mofo.

I think about 30-40 hours is going to end up being the average, but the extremes would look more like 20-50 depending on how heavily you lean into the side content and your reading speed.
 

Lady_Error

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Came across a sort of game-breaking bug in the end:

After going for a nap on the island, the character gets up, but there is no UI and you cannot do anything.

Also, on Day 5 save game stopped working - it is just greyed out the whole time. And no autosaves after that either.

So now I'd have to replay the whole day to finish the game.
Kasparov
 

Morgoth

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https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...iew-large-scale-whodunit-with-a-lack-of-focus

Disco Elysium review - large-scale whodunit with a distinct lack of focus
Hungover.

A verbose and rich psychological roleplaying game that doesn't offer enough choice in the role you play.

When looking for an anecdote to illustrate both the fascination and frustration inherent in Disco Elysium, you need to go no further than its opening minutes. Your character wakes up with a killer headache, no memory of his past life and no clothes on. If you're feeling adventurous, you can make a grab for your tie, swinging away on the fan in your room. Failing the first of many many checks results in you dying of a heart attack and makes it clear that this game means business. Because while at that point it may all be fun and games to start over with a character slightly less inclined to instantly croak, it's actually one of many instances in which your body, brain or the outside world are out to get you.

Disco Elysium is built on a rather simple core idea, a noir detective mystery using the conventions of a CRPG. Instead of slaying monsters in fantasy combat, you spend your time sleuthing through the ruined streets of Revachol. The chief attraction then, is how downright obsessed developer ZA/UM is with the roleplaying mechanics of pen and paper games. Here you can invest in a myriad of skills that represent your body, mental state, knowledge and social graces. To keep things interesting you can't simply max all of them out, so while there are ways to find help, it's likely you're always going to struggle in situations your character isn't cut out for.

It's a bold way to make sure players never feel like they're fully in control, and for a while it's fun to watch your character fumble through an otherwise serious murder investigation. However, the inherent possibility of failure makes it possible to lock yourself out of the experience entirely. I played for seven hours when I had my own version of the heart attack anecdote: through a combination of refusing tasks, failing checks that would lead to alternative avenues and having no further skill points to spend to reattempt said checks, I had nowhere to go. All that mystery, normally so welcome, led me to a crossroads I wasn't even aware I was on. Afterwards I became an obsessive saver and skill point hoarder. Disco Elysium had shown me the mechanical heart within, and I felt like I could no longer rely on having the dice fall where they may.

jpg

I'm a cop, I swear, I'm just… undercover as a bum right now

Even if this was a likely very specific and rare occurrence, it's one of several ways in which Disco Elysium ends up destroying the illusion by making you aware of its inner workings. My political leanings get a score (to my absolute horror I have racked up a point for fascism somewhere), as well as my general demeanour (3 points under 'sad cop'). The obsession with numbers can make it feel so mechanical, although it's certainly impressive. No two player experiences will be the same, thanks to the myriad ways you can distribute your skills.

In Disco Elysium, your clothes and even your thoughts take influence on your stats. If you commit to a certain train of thought which crops up either randomly or during a conversation, you can then mull it over further in your 'thought cabinet' - basically the back of your head. After some time has passed, you have internalised the thought, which will lead you to do better or worse in certain areas. A deep-dive into the history of a famous actor, for example, causes me to lose perception, likely because I'm preoccupied with useless stuff when I should be busy with police work.

Frankly, I become preoccupied with a lot of stuff that isn't police work quite frequently, because that's what the game wants. The length of Disco Elysium isn't explained through a plot full of twists and turns, but by all the ways it's trying to distract you. Sure, side missions can be important to your overall progress, but in a genre in which you already do a lot of reading ZA/UM underestimated the usefulness of a good editor. Apparently everyone who worked on the game in any capacity contributed to the writing at some point, and that shows, because some conversations stay stubbornly devoid of any rhyme, reason or cohesive characterisation.

That is nowhere more obvious than in the protagonist himself. As an amnesiac, alcoholic and occasional drug connoisseur, the detective is the perfect character to be in-between personalities, his brain basically a drawer in dire need of tidying. Different aspects of your personality butt into conversations randomly, and you can decide whether to hear them out or listen to what they have to say. No matter how low your skill in a certain area is however, all parts of your personality are weighted equally when it comes to taking up real estate in your head, and thus on my screen. Sometimes I can tell Disco Elysium that no thank you, I do not want the encyclopaedic part of my brain to give me a complete rundown of the history of the part of town I've just entered. At other times, it will simply go ahead unasked.

jpg

A lot of these thoughts I had no use for, which is very realistic.

These different voices and personalities could either be a representation of a mind in flux, or the result of an unrestrained outpour of content. I suspect the latter, mainly because while the game locks your skill growth, it never actually allows you to commit to any kind of moral compass. If it serves the game that I behave like a fascist, I can do that, and nothing is going to stop me - if I want to, I can discard thought models that don't work for me later on. It's confusing player freedom with inciting chaos at every opportunity.

While Disco Elysium shows you a downtrodden suburb in which teenagers take drugs and senior citizens play Boules on earthquake-cracked pavement, Disco Elysium doesn't allow me to be the type of character I want to be - an even remotely kind one, and I don't necessarily mean one with a higher empathy stat.

One character and one story may contain multitudes, but Disco Elysium has pushed that idea to extremes, making me a flippant macho and above all a weirdo who stands for nothing. Once the novelty wears off, I feel like I'm playing a game that insistently wants to prove to me how smart it is, and that, above anything, is just really tiring.

A wamman reviewed the game. She doesn't like it. No shit, detective.

As for me, I'm busy getting rid of my backlog before I'll dive into DE. Probably around Christmas or so.
 
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