[Disco Elysium] Disappointing Mid-late game. [Heavy Spoilers]

[JohnSmith24601]

It had SO MUCH going for it from beginning to mid-game. It's such a shame that mid-late game was so lack-luster.

The mid game conflict (Merc Tribunal) has basically only one resolution...No peaceful path. Kim is the only one you care about. Okay, maybe Titus too if you like him, but seriously I did not feel any emotional impact when I was told that Shanky died. I was like, who the fuck was Shanky?

Ex-machina main game ending...Spoiler alert, a fucking hobo on a completely different island killed the Hanged Man. His motive? He's a stupid commie and just wants to kill a random "fascist".

You get only one ending. All the other endings are more or less variations to it. Not as bad as Mass Effect 3's multi-color explosion endings, but still...

The last part of this game is obviously "VERY" rushed.

It's really a big shame because it is actually the first RPG in years where your protagonist doesn't become a murder Hobo, which I really like. I think you only get into one real fight in the entire game, and you get to prepare for that fight (like equipping the right armor)...But then the one resolution thing kind of muddled the water there.

There's so many memorable moments like that sick dance in the church, the depression inducing long-distance phone call and meeting the "ghost" in the cursed commercial area, etc...I honestly was very, very impressed (and emotionally moved). Also, Kim is probably the most well written companion in the last two decades.

I ended up caring about the ex-fiancee plot more. The two interactions we have in the game with the ex are both very well written and EXTREMELY heartbreaking. I wish there were more ways to tie that into the main plot somehow, instead of just getting the lame random hobo killer at the end.

I'm just extremely disappointed because I thought this would be the game to stand beside Planescape: Torment on the RPG pantheon. Alas, it was not to be.

 

[Jenkem]

yeah the game is shit. watch yourself, friend, your post will bring forth many agents of decline.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I felt bad for everyone who died, especially the first time when I screwed up somewhat and there were more casualties than the minimum (the minimum I think was 3). But I'm a sorry cop, so that's to be expected.

When they eventually make a second game, and if it includes some more-than-token C&C with the first, then if you play both together it would make a really nice low-agression RPG.

 

[overly excitable young man]

Yeah the beginning was ok and i might have maybe liked the game if they solved the fucking murder in a satisfying way.

But this, the half-cooked political theme and the fake choices and consequences drag disco down to a shitty adventure game.

 

[NJClaw]

I think that the mercenary tribunal works wonderfully. For the very first time since the start of the game, Harry needs to get his shit together and face immediate danger. He constantly fucks everything up, but that's not an option this time because his life is on the line. I played that scene for the first time with high Visual Calculus and it was extremely cool and engaging.

The hobo's motives are unclear. He doesn't kill the mercenary just because he is a fascist, he kills him because he is a violent fascist AND he is getting action with a young girl he himself fell for. He can try to justify his actions with political motives, but the hanged man wasn't killed by communism: he was killed by love. In a similar way, in his dream Harry tries to explain Dora leaving with pseudo-politics: he was poor and she left him for a richer man, the bourgeoisie won once again.

I still agree with you that the second half of the game feels less polished than the first (with the exception of moments like the final dream sequence), but I'm still glad we got DE and I'm excited for what we are going to see next from them.

 

[felipepepe]

I don't like the ending much, I think it should have tied things better before and maybe just finish with a talk with Kim on the boat, after you solve the crime. The final talk with your ex-squad is kinda dull and I'm not a fan of "decide what made you lose your memory" without taking any of your actions & choices into account...

But I disagree A LOT with this:

The mid game conflict (Merc Tribunal) has basically only one resolution.

You can lose Kim, your only companion and one of the best NPCs in gaming. Not to mention that there's 8 different people who can get shot/killed in this scene. How's that "only one resolution"?

 

[JohnSmith24601]

I felt bad for everyone who died, especially the first time when I screwed up somewhat and there were more casualties than the minimum (the minimum I think was 3). But I'm a sorry cop, so that's to be expected.

When they eventually make a second game, and if it includes some more-than-token C&C with the first, then if you play both together it would make a really nice low-agression RPG.

The minimum casualty is actually 6, if you count both sides. There's a detailed post on Reddit that lists ALL the possible outcomes.

Yeah the beginning was ok and i might have maybe liked the game if they solved the fucking murder in a satisfying way.

But this, the half-cooked political theme and the fake choices and consequences drag disco down to a shitty adventure game.

Dang, I think you hit the nail on the head! It IS a fucking adventure game!!!

I think that the mercenary tribunal works wonderfully. For the very first time since the start of the game, Harry needs to get his shit together and face immediate danger. He constantly fucks everything up, but that's not an option this time because his life is on the line. I played that scene for the first time with high Visual Calculus and it was extremely cool and engaging.

Yeah, you might think that on your first playthrough. But then, if you start the game again as a corrupt drunk-junky, you'd find that you still get the same thing at the Tribunal. Your Harry does NOT have to get his shit together, and no, his life is most definitely NOT on the line. He can be as much a fuckup as he wants and still survives. Hell, you might even pass that Authority check to keep Kim with you if you only invest in that skill a tiny bit. SO, like, what's the point?

The hobo's motives are unclear. He doesn't kill the mercenary just because he is a fascist, he kills him because he is a violent fascist AND he is getting action with a young girl he himself fell for. He can try to justify his actions with political motives, but the hanged man wasn't killed by communism: he was killed by love. In a similar way, in his dream Harry tries to explain Dora leaving with pseudo-politics: he was poor and she left him for a richer man, the bourgeoisie won once again.

I still agree with you that the second half of the game feels less polished than the first (with the exception of moments like the final dream sequence), but I'm still glad we got DE and I'm excited for what we are going to see next from them.

I get what you're saying. I mean, my 5/5/1/1 character unlocked almost every check in the game with the help of a "few" very helpful thoughts, but I still could not figure out the hobo's real motive. He slept with Klaasje? I thought he said he stayed in the Islands for 43 years? Harry commented on that. He was like,"hey! That's the entirety of my life!" I get that he moves to towns sometimes, but seriously, it's a little far fetched even if there's somehow a love triangle thing going on with Klaasje.

The Phasmid actually explains that its pheromones are driving the commie hobo insane due to prolonged exposure. So the hobo really does just rage kill a fascist that he doesn't like. Maybe he also wants to incite a riot as well? Though I seriously doubt how his ass knows so much while being a fucking hermit on a far away island. The whole thing just feels so...ex machina. Like the writers just ran out of time, you know?

Yeah, I agree. I certainly don't want them to stop trying. This was a very good attempt. They just probably ran out of money at the end or something. Kind of like those RPG game developers in the doomed commerical area. (Maybe it was a sort of inside joke?)

 

[JohnSmith24601]

But I disagree A LOT with this:

The mid game conflict (Merc Tribunal) has basically only one resolution.

You can lose Kim, your only companion and one of the best NPCs in gaming. Not to mention that there's 8 different people who can get shot/killed in this scene. How's that "only one resolution"?

Okay, fair point. I meant in the big picture sort of thing you can only have one resolution. No actual negotiation. No peaceful path. Just those evil apes duking it out. Casualties on both sides. 6-9 people can die, true, but nobody you would really care about. Like I said in the OP, you can only lose Kim if you are a total fuck up. It's almost like a secret path thing with Cuno. I don't see how you can fuck up so much to have Kim get fucked in the gun fight.

 

[overly excitable young man]

I don't like the ending much, I think it should have tied things better before and maybe just finish with a talk with Kim on the boat, after you solve the crime.

This makes me think from a stylistic point of view.
If you had already solved the crime in the town (of course with some stuff explaining intentions) would the great boat ride scene make for a good ending?

 

[AwesomeButton]

I don't like the ending much, I think it should have tied things better before and maybe just finish with a talk with Kim on the boat, after you solve the crime. The final talk with your ex-squad is kinda dull and I'm not a fan of "decide what made you lose your memory" without taking any of your actions & choices into account...

But I disagree A LOT with this:

The mid game conflict (Merc Tribunal) has basically only one resolution.

You can lose Kim, your only companion and one of the best NPCs in gaming. Not to mention that there's 8 different people who can get shot/killed in this scene. How's that "only one resolution"?

I think the ending and pseudo-court the captain holds on your decisions is an obvious cut-off from what they planned as a larger game.

 

[JohnSmith24601]

I don't like the ending much, I think it should have tied things better before and maybe just finish with a talk with Kim on the boat, after you solve the crime.

This makes me think from a stylistic point of view.
If you had already solved the crime in the town (of course with some stuff explaining intentions) would the great boat ride scene make for a good ending?

I think it would make a lot more sense if the killer was actually one of the people that you interacted with and that he/she just hid in plain sight until the big reveal.

 

[Egosphere]

I enjoyed the first day of investigation, not much else. The tribunal is ok if you have any other build than high Reaction/E-H, which is what I had. That made the whole thing feel like a slap in the face.

 

[felipepepe]

I don't like the ending much, I think it should have tied things better before and maybe just finish with a talk with Kim on the boat, after you solve the crime.

This makes me think from a stylistic point of view.
If you had already solved the crime in the town (of course with some stuff explaining intentions) would the great boat ride scene make for a good ending?

It's a classic way of ending a story... main character solve a mystery and have a talk with his partner about how things are going to be from now own. Could be Kim talking about how he sees you, why you truly think you lost your memory and what are you going to do next. You invite Kim to continue to work together, he says that sounds like a fun idea and the camera pans away.

 

[alyvain]

I liked the Tribunal, the killer, the final dreams and the phasmid encounter. I didn't feel that any of it was forced.

After the Tribunal I also had a good feeling of "now the tension is finally gone, you can go wrap up some loose ends".

I didn't like the anodic club (although dancing was fun), Ruby and the final dialogue with the posse. The fact that the final CONSEQUENCE is whether you can join the forces again is kinda weird. I mean, the game has a lot of stress on you being policeman (cop personalities, "detective arriving on the scene", all that stuff), but the most meaningful turn of events which may actually feel like an ending is whether you'll blow your brains out after the departure of Dolores Dei/Ex.

 

[TemplarGR]

What, you mean the usual Codex shills sold you a game as supposed "incline", and then you played it and realized that what they promised you were lies, not only this has no combat and is an adventure game, but it doesn't even have proper choice and consequence and the story sucks? Nah, that never happens on the Codex, like, ever, man. You are just a popamoler bethestard, that must be it.

 

[NJClaw]

What, you mean the usual Codex shills sold you a game as supposed "incline", and then you played it and realized that what they promised you were lies, not only this has no combat and is an adventure game, but it doesn't even have proper choice and consequence and the story sucks? Nah, that never happens on the Codex, like, ever, man. You are just a popamoler bethestard, that must be it.

I know that reading comprehension is the hard, so, here, let me help you:

It had SO MUCH going for it from beginning to mid-game.

[...]

There's so many memorable moments

[...]

I honestly was very, very impressed (and emotionally moved).

[...]

Also, Kim is probably the most well written companion in the last two decades.

[...]

The two interactions we have in the game with the ex are both very well written and EXTREMELY heartbreaking.

[...]

 

[TemplarGR]

I know that reading comprehension is the hard, so, here, let me help you:

Who cares about shill opinions?

 

[Ol' Willy]

Who cares about shill opinions?

You are talking about yourself, innit?

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Disappointing mid-late ebook would be a better description.

 

[JohnSmith24601]

What, you mean the usual Codex shills sold you a game as supposed "incline", and then you played it and realized that what they promised you were lies, not only this has no combat and is an adventure game, but it doesn't even have proper choice and consequence and the story sucks? Nah, that never happens on the Codex, like, ever, man. You are just a popamoler bethestard, that must be it.

As a matter of fact, I actually liked that it had no combat. The actual “combat” in this game is dialogues. You can “lose” to some people and miss a lot of clues if you don’t invest in proper skills. This is actually considerably better than some open world RPG’s that send you out into the world and have you kill a random irradiated rat for no good reason. The “side quests” actually all have some links to the murder mystery. I don’t think this has been done since the 90’s or something, and it should be commended.

Nowadays in most RPG’s you are like, “Rat killed. Job done. Nice XP. Wait, I feel like there’s something important I’m forgetting...hmm...oh yeah, my son!! I gotta go look for my son! I really should get on with that tomorrow morning ...hmm...maybe after I kill those ghouls...and those bandits...and those nasty scorpions...oh god, what am I forgetting again?”

 

[AwesomeButton]

Nowadays in most RPG’s you are like, “Rat killed. Job done. Nice XP. Wait, I feel like there’s something important I’m forgetting...hmm...oh yeah, my son!! I gotta go look for my son! I really should get on with that tomorrow morning ...hmm...maybe after I kill those ghouls...and those bandits...and those nasty scorpions...oh god, what am I forgetting again?”

It's full of developers reproducing the same tropes to the point where they have forgotten what the tropes used to mean in the beginning. Disco is something fresh.

 

[GrafvonMoltke]

I agree with everything that has been so-far said and have nothing more to add.

 

[NJClaw]

I get what you're saying. I mean, my 5/5/1/1 character unlocked almost every check in the game with the help of a "few" very helpful thoughts, but I still could not figure out the hobo's real motive. He slept with Klaasje? I thought he said he stayed in the Islands for 43 years? Harry commented on that. He was like,"hey! That's the entirety of my life!" I get that he moves to towns sometimes, but seriously, it's a little far fetched even if there's somehow a love triangle thing going on with Klaasje.

The Phasmid actually explains that its pheromones are driving the commie hobo insane due to prolonged exposure. So the hobo really does just rage kill a fascist that he doesn't like. Maybe he also wants to incite a riot as well? Though I seriously doubt how his ass knows so much while being a fucking hermit on a far away island. The whole thing just feels so...ex machina. Like the writers just ran out of time, you know?

He didn't sleep with Klaasje, he was just morbidly obsessed with her. He spent his never-ending days spying on her through his rifle scope and, when the mercenary (a violent fascist, so his worst political enemy) hooked up with her, he couldn't possibly deal with it and killed him. Maybe he tried to justify his actions with a political motive, maybe he convinced himself he had to do it to incite a riot (even if he is stranded on the island, he somehow keeps in touch with the two children from the village, so he could have learned something about the situation from them), but in the end he was just obsessed with a young woman who represented everything he never had the chance to experience (he was drafted when he was very young and he spent his entire life on that island).

 

[Latro]

As a matter of fact, I actually liked that it had no combat. The actual “combat” in this game is dialogues.

In other words, it's not RPG combat at all.

 

[alyvain]

(even if he is stranded on the island, he somehow keeps in touch with the two children from the village, so he could have learned something about the situation from them

not only with the children, but with the chair-person and his unseen brother, who most probably used the old fucker to get rid of the previous union leader (I think there was a check to learn that)

anyway, yeah, he is a miserable dumbfuck with emotional intelligence of a toad.

the fact that he was used by the union leaders and the similarities between him and player character (obsession with the dutch girl, inability to let go of past, the fact that he shot a Royalist monument - the one which PC saddled, the fact that he decided to go into hiding on the day PC was born, lots of stuff) helps me accept his virtual absence from the game. after all, by the time you find him the climax of the game has already passed (with drunken turmoil of emotionally inept dumbfucks of the tribunal), so it feels more like an epilogue.

given that it's not an RPG but an e-book, I accept this structure, although I agree that the latter half of Disco Elysium is much weaker than the beginning.