KickStarter Dead State: Reanimated

[markec]

As I said in the post only by turning humans into retards can zombies be a threat. There is no logic in zombies defeating a modern army.

Its a possibility if you account for widespread panic and total dissolution of social structures. Zombies can't defeat human race, but they can defeat human civilization.

I dont agree, while there would be a widespread panic, dissolution of social structures and the heavy casualties from initial shocking event of suddenly all dead people coming to life and trying to feast on the living. The moment army kicks in and cleans the place everything would go back to normal after some time. After all things like widespread panic and dissolution of social structures is common during any major world crisis either natural or man made, but humanity always bounces back.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I dont agree, while there would be a widespread panic, dissolution of social structures and the heavy casualties from initial shocking event of suddenly all dead people coming to life and trying to feast on the living. The moment army kicks in and cleans the place everything would go back to normal after some time.

The army kicks in and cleans what place, exactly? This isn't a video game where zombies would just blob for the ultimate battle.

After all things like widespread panic and dissolution of social structures is common during any major world crisis either natural or man made, but humanity always bounces back.

Yes, because in every major war, both sides were cordinated, wearing distinctive uniforms, could be defeated in major battle, and were willing to negotiate and surrender. The zombies don't negotiate, they never stop, and the infected can't be easily identified until its too late. Successful action by the army would require literally combing through every square feet on the continent. There isn't enough soldiers on the planet for that.

Smaller groups of humans would adapt and survive, but the civilization as we know it would collapse.

 

[markec]

The army kicks in and cleans what place, exactly? This isn't a video game where zombies would just blob for the ultimate battle.

Its not like zombies are masters of stealth, its established lore that they are drawn to sound. Is it hard to imagine army, police and militia using sound to attract zombies and then wipe them out.

Yes, because in every major war, both sides were cordinated, wearing distinctive uniforms, could be defeated in major battle, and were willing to negotiate and surrender. The zombies don't negotiate, they never stop, and the infected can't be easily identified until its too late. Successful action by the army would require literally combing through every square feet on the continent. There isn't enough soldiers on the planet for that.

Smaller groups of humans would adapt and survive, but the civilization as we know it would collapse.

Unless you never saw any zombie movie ever they are quite easy to identify even from a large distance. They are extremely stupid due being brain dead (which according to movies still makes them more intelligent then human characters) and behave on instinct, which is all easily easily exploited by anyone with more then one brain cell.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

They are extremely stupid.

Not like most people are geniuses, mind you.

 

[markec]

They are extremely stupid.

Not like most people are geniuses, mind you.

Do you really have to be a genius to outsmart a brain dead walking corpse? Well according to movies the answer is yes.

 

[Jimmious]

The book World War Z deals with such issues nicely. Worth a read. Not the typical zombie story, more like a sociological approach to such an event. Nothing like the really bad movie

 

[markec]

The book World War Z deals with such issues nicely. Worth a read. Not the typical zombie story, more like a sociological approach to such an event. Nothing like the really bad movie

Heavent read the book but did read the summary of it on wikipedia so forgive me if I missed something. Now the book might be interesting or fun but in terms of what we are talking about its just as silly as any Hollywood movie if not more.

Basically according the book (atleast the plot outline on wikipedia) the catastrophe is result of world governments complete incompetence to do anything and modern military to defeat zombies in a pitch battle because "you need to shot them in the head".

Now both things are pretty mandatory in fiction because you need total collapse of the government and the army to have the apocalypse no matter how silly its done. Especially the idea that the modern army will have trouble dealing with a massive zombie army because only head shots will kill them is simply laughable. Any modern army with its tanks, artillery and air force would welcome with open arms mass group of bodies since even high caliber machine guns would tear bodies in pieces.

Its fine to use suspension of disbelief to enjoy zombie movies or books, but thinking that real zombie outbreak would be a catastrophe which entire world would be unable to contain and would spell the end of civilization is just silly.

 

[anus_pounder]

Vaarna, I vaguely remember you (or was it someone else) doing a decent write up on WWZ's Zombies vs Army thingy, I don't suppose you have anything to say?

 

[Jimmious]

It's not exactly like that. The incompetence of governments according to the book mainly comes from the fact that even in such a situation they have also other interests in mind.
Plus there are nation like N.Korea who seems to be perfectly prepared with everyone vanishing underground and no one in the world knows how they were so efficient.
Finally there are also massive battles against enormous zombie hordes, were talking about millions of them, which initially fail due to bad Tactics and eventually succeed due to adapting to the enemy.
It's very interesting to see the ideas of the writer as to how nations dealt with the situation. Some took advantage to cause trouble to "enemy" nations, others tried to seclude their selves causing neighbours to die off etc

*I'm not the best to describe books but I really think this one is worth it. And that the movie adaptation has nothing to do with it apart from zombies.

 

[markec]

Finally there are also massive battles against enormous zombie hordes, were talking about millions of them, which initially fail due to bad Tactics and eventually succeed due to adapting to the enemy.

New tactics? Did the army remember they had strategic bombers, cruise missiles and rocket artillery?

 

[kris]

Its fine to use suspension of disbelief to enjoy zombie movies or books, but thinking that real zombie outbreak would be a catastrophe which entire world would be unable to contain and would spell the end of civilization is just silly.

It basically come down to that everyone have to have been infected by some slow-cooking disease, because the notion that most or even a big part will be infected by bites is just silly.

Military obviously wouldn't have problem unless most their personel is infected/lost. In most media about zombies though it seems you just need one infected to take out everyone, anywhere. It is of course incredibly silly.

 

[Jimmious]

Finally there are also massive battles against enormous zombie hordes, were talking about millions of them, which initially fail due to bad Tactics and eventually succeed due to adapting to the enemy.

New tactics? Did the army remember they had strategic bombers, cruise missiles and rocket artillery?

Read the book, you'll enjoy it. The concept is that the mass of the enemy is so big that you'd have to throw everything all at once to eradicate them all properly. And a lot was wasted/lost in the beginning of the chaos were armies and countries were reacting irrationally.

 

[Serus]

Its fine to use suspension of disbelief to enjoy zombie movies or books, but thinking that real zombie outbreak would be a catastrophe which entire world would be unable to contain and would spell the end of civilization is just silly.

It basically come down to that everyone have to have been infected by some slow-cooking discease, because the notion that most or even a big part will be infected by bites is just silly.
...

This. Any zombie worldwide apocalypse-like event with traditional slow/mindless zombies only can make sense if not just the dead but also the living are becoming zombies en masse (and i mean, in high % of total population), because of some viral disease or whatever... Otherwise the only scenario that makes sense is a localized thing (think "Night of the Living Dead" - a few people, one cemetary, in the morning rescue comes, not even in form of the army but some rednecks with guns on pickup trucks). Alternatively, non-traditional, "evolved" zombies but then they aren't zombies anymore but a a dfferent kind of monster.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Its not like zombies are masters of stealth, its established lore that they are drawn to sound. Is it hard to imagine army, police and militia using sound to attract zombies and then wipe them out.

They could do that, but its no guarantee they will get everybody. In case of widepsread outbreak, they'd need to check every house, every room, every basement and every shed. Say, in a city the size of New York. Good luck with that.

Unless you never saw any zombie movie ever they are quite easy to identify even from a large distance. They are extremely stupid due being brain dead (which according to movies still makes them more intelligent then human characters) and behave on instinct, which is all easily easily exploited by anyone with more then one brain cell.

Once they turn you can identify them easily, yeah. Screening for those who are infected but not turned yet, is a different story. Successfully containing a disease requires quarantine and isolation. How do you propose to contain the population of several +10 milllion cities, when said population is busy trying to get the fuck out as far away as possible? It can't be done.

 

[anus_pounder]

I have to ask, are there any (good) post-post apoc zombie games? Where human casualties, however severe, have 'settled' and large-ish sized survivor communities try to thrive rather than just survive.

 

[Zombra]

I have to ask, are there any (good) post-post apoc zombie games? Where human casualties, however severe, have 'settled' and large-ish sized survivor communities try to thrive rather than just survive.

You mean something with a few people building a settlement that gradually grows, and you build a granary to store your food, and a courthouse to oversee local justice, and a wall to keep other civilizations zombies out, and later maybe an aqueduct? Can't think of anything like that, no.

 

[sser]

Zombies don't defeat armies. It's usually implied that it is the overwhelming breakdown of society that does it. You're talking about massive exoduses from every major city on the planet. Millions and millions of people suddenly ejected from the system that can sustain them, into the system where their very population is completely unsustainable. Cue mass starvation and riots. An army can bulldoze waves of zombies no problem. Can't do that nearly as well when the lines of support are fundamentally crashing down, food is rapidly running out, medical care is way over crisis mode, and refugees are swamping in from every direction looking for protection, and in doing so bringing more problems and zombies with them.

 

[markec]

They could do that, but its no guarantee they will get everybody. In case of widepsread outbreak, they'd need to check every house, every room, every basement and every shed. Say, in a city the size of New York. Good luck with that.

You dont need luck, what you need is heavily armed police patrols, people hiding in their flats when they see someone suspicions, cell phones to call for help when you hear weird sounds from your basement and to buy a gun. Which is pretty much your average daily life in a ghetto, so many people would not even feel the difference.

Once they turn you can identify them easily, yeah. Screening for those who are infected but not turned yet, is a different story. Successfully containing a disease requires quarantine and isolation. How do you propose to contain the population of several +10 milllion cities, when said population is busy trying to get the fuck out as far away as possible? It can't be done.

If we are talking about traditional disease that transfers with saliva, make checkpoints, strip people to check for bites, anyone showing any symptoms put in a quarantine. Create protected camps/shelters/tows that are split in blocks divided by walls, if in one block has a outbreak isolate it, instruct people to lock in their rooms and wait for soldiers to make area safe.

Im not saying that you can save everyone as initial panic would make it chaotic especially in large cities but sooner or later everything would be organized.

I have to ask, are there any (good) post-post apoc zombie games? Where human casualties, however severe, have 'settled' and large-ish sized survivor communities try to thrive rather than just survive.

Well cant really remember anything like that but Land of the Dead is similar to what you are asking for.

 

[Jimmious]

I have to ask, are there any (good) post-post apoc zombie games? Where human casualties, however severe, have 'settled' and large-ish sized survivor communities try to thrive rather than just survive.

You mean something with a few people building a settlement that gradually grows, and you build a granary to store your food, and a courthouse to oversee local justice, and a wall to keep other civilizations zombies out, and later maybe an aqueduct? Can't think of anything like that, no.

State of Decay had a cool approach to the genre in my opinion. But can easily get repetitive and boring after a while. Still not a bad game for what it is

 

[Zombra]

I have to ask, are there any (good) post-post apoc zombie games? Where human casualties, however severe, have 'settled' and large-ish sized survivor communities try to thrive rather than just survive.

You mean something with a few people building a settlement that gradually grows, and you build a granary to store your food, and a courthouse to oversee local justice, and a wall to keep other civilizations zombies out, and later maybe an aqueduct? Can't think of anything like that, no.

State of Decay had a cool approach to the genre in my opinion. But can easily get repetitive and boring after a while. Still not a bad game for what it is

Survivalist is also surprisingly good (better than SOD imo), but these are apoc/post-apoc games, not post-post-apoc as a_p is looking for.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

You dont need luck

No you don't. You need a kind of manpower that doesn't exist.

If we are talking about traditional disease that transfers with saliva, make checkpoints, strip people to check for bites, anyone showing any symptoms put in a quarantine. Create protected camps/shelters/tows that are split in blocks divided by walls, if in one block has a outbreak isolate it, instruct people to lock in their rooms and wait for soldiers to make area safe.

But its not a traditional disease. If you have symptoms for traditional, familiar disease, something curable or at least something were doctors can provide some form of relief, most people would allow themselves to be quarantined without protest. What other options would they have, move to the countryside and become fruitarian?

But allowing to be quarantined with your family, in a place where the other inhabitants can eat out brains of your kids at any given moment? No chance Jose. You'd need a fucking army that is willing to shoot to kill, just to the safeguard the quarantined areas and keep everybody from scramming outta there. An army that's not available, because you know, they are supposed to be combing the whole continent for zombies.

And that doesn't even account for such small nuances as logistics for feeding and keeping healthy 250 million population that suddenly lost access to all the basic resources, because the moment first zombie appears, everybody starts hoarding food and meds.

The army could probably mow down a billion zombies if it needed to. That's not an issue. The issue is dealing with society that goes into "every man for himself" mode practically overnight.

 

[lightbane]

They are extremely stupid.

Not like most people are geniuses, mind you.

Do you really have to be a genius to outsmart a brain dead walking corpse? Well according to movies the answer is yes.

Well, I would say that "humanity went full retard" would fit for Dead State. That, or I can't understand why the human enemies insist on attacking my guys no matter what, even when there are other human characters shooting them, or when there's a zombie happily chewing on their faces. Or why 8/10 times everyone fights to the death, with a zeal that would make fanatic terrorists envious. Or how ungrateful your subleaders are, often to the point of immediately attempting to kick you out of the fort the moment they feel you are not willing to follow their advice, no matter how good you were at keeping things together.

I have to ask, are there any (good) post-post apoc zombie games? Where human casualties, however severe, have 'settled' and large-ish sized survivor communities try to thrive rather than just survive.

Rebuild 3 comes quite close to what you describe.

 

[Zombra]

I have to ask, are there any (good) post-post apoc zombie games? Where human casualties, however severe, have 'settled' and large-ish sized survivor communities try to thrive rather than just survive.

Rebuild 3 comes quite close to what you describe.

Ehhhh Rebuild is great (and I certainly recommend it for genre fans), but it's still very much a "during the apocalypse" game. Doods are being eaten every day and your guys are scrambling to put up fortifications and so on.

 

[Saduj]

It's not exactly like that. The incompetence of governments according to the book mainly comes from the fact that even in such a situation they have also other interests in mind.
Plus there are nation like N.Korea who seems to be perfectly prepared with everyone vanishing underground and no one in the world knows how they were so efficient.
Finally there are also massive battles against enormous zombie hordes, were talking about millions of them, which initially fail due to bad Tactics and eventually succeed due to adapting to the enemy.
It's very interesting to see the ideas of the writer as to how nations dealt with the situation. Some took advantage to cause trouble to "enemy" nations, others tried to seclude their selves causing neighbours to die off etc

*I'm not the best to describe books but I really think this one is worth it. And that the movie adaptation has nothing to do with it apart from zombies.

I also enjoyed the book. But in my opinion, the Battle of Yonkers was the weakest chapter.

For anyone interested in how the author had the US military lose to a zombie horde of millions (but not interested enough to read the whole book), this link gives a detailed description of what went wrong:

http://zombie.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Yonkers

On the other hand, the shit about the US government's complicity in disinformation and false cures was very realistic, IMO.

 

[Grotesque]

what a piece of crap.
I am constantly fatigued(bug) and I have a morale penalty because of rationing food although I cancelled it(bug).
Getting my money back.