KickStarter Dead State: Reanimated

[TheEntitledOne]

What can you expect from a SJW?

 

[Goat Vomit]

even the nice folks like Whalenaught hang around our little cesspit

They are pretty good at courting the Codex too.
https://twitter.com/whalenought/status/547182720330526720
Making Planescape: Torment references and shit, how can you not like them?

Anthony Davis did more for Obsidian on the Codex than any hired shill could just by being a cool guy.

Coreplay won over many hearts with their lofty goals and grand ambitions and their forum presence. HobGoblin42 is still around even, he's genuinely a Codexer at heart and an pretty prestigious dev.

Heck, even Stoic got the Codex drummed up to support the Banner Saga with some sweet talk.

So why didn't Annie at least give it a go? Instead of whining on her tumblr and nazi saluting literally who she could have spent that internet time posting on forums improving their public image and visibility. Even a small giveaway and smooth dev talk on one of the chans would have boosted their sales and improved awareness of Dead State. I've seen people putting it on their most anticipated RPG list for quite some time in such places. Instead she thinks she is Bioware or sumfin, telling her customers that they are dickbags and stretching out a gigantic middle finger with the flagging of that review. Is this like the modder syndrome? Indie crazyness? Lashing out against piracy was also a bad move, they should have made a torrent themselves with a thoughtful humble message of understanding along with it to create more publicity and goodwill. Because your game is going to be pirated no matter what, might as well turn that into a positive thing.

I'm surprised she hasn't railed against youtubers leeching money of her hard work and sent out copyright claims left and right on the tubes yet. She should try to be less like Phil "choke on it" Fish and more like Swen Vincke or Daniel "Based" Vávra.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Why is she asking for a tweet from Notch?

 

[Drowed]

That is the most retarded and entitled attitude I saw this week. Yes, you are responsible for the bugs in your product and customers are free to complain and whine all they want. Its this weird attitude in games that "bugs happen" and they no ones responsibility at all.

It's worse than that. As many people noted, they *had* a list of unresolved bugs before release. How can anyone believe that it is wise to release a game without first resolving all known pending things? "Oh, this car has a shift on the steering wheel, we know that, but we will correct as soon as possible". No, it makes no sense, no one has to accept a defective product for any reason. Especially when the producer *already* knew in advance that the product was defective.

And we're not talking about one or two bugs here, but a lot, this is a game that is famous now for beign buggy. If these bugs were all discovered *after* the launch, even then, the developers could act sensibly and recognize, "really, a finished game should not be in this state, we will correct everything as soon as possible, pardon for any inconvenience". Many whiners would continue complaining, but the whole thing would go almost unnoticed. Instead, we learn that the game was released with known bugs, most likely to take advantage of the year-end sales. And she still have the nerve to play the victim when buyers complain about the situation. Reporting that review of the banned guy was the finishing touch of a disaster waiting to happen.

 

[Perkel]

Why is she asking for a tweet from Notch?

SJW wants fedora wearing neckbeard white knight to help her.

 

[Perkel]

That is the most retarded and entitled attitude I saw this week. Yes, you are responsible for the bugs in your product and customers are free to complain and whine all they want. Its this weird attitude in games that "bugs happen" and they no ones responsibility at all.

It's worse than that. As many people noted, they *had* a list of unresolved bugs before release. How can anyone believe that it is wise to release a game without first resolving all known pending things? "Oh, this car has a shift on the steering wheel, we know that, but we will correct as soon as possible". No, it makes no sense, no one has to accept a defective product for any reason. Especially when the producer *already* knew in advance that the product was defective.

And we're not talking about one or two bugs here, but a lot, this is a game that is famous now for beign buggy. If these bugs were all discovered *after* the launch, even then, the developers could act sensibly and recognize, "really, a finished game should not be in this state, we will correct everything as soon as possible, pardon for any inconvenience". Many whiners would continue complaining, but the whole thing would go almost unnoticed. Instead, we learn that the game was released with known bugs, most likely to take advantage of the year-end sales. And she still have the nerve to play the victim when buyers complain about the situation. Reporting that review of the banned guy was the finishing touch of a disaster waiting to happen.

My favorite is tooltext for character face customization.

 

[Angthoron]

That is the most retarded and entitled attitude I saw this week. Yes, you are responsible for the bugs in your product and customers are free to complain and whine all they want. Its this weird attitude in games that "bugs happen" and they no ones responsibility at all.

It's worse than that. As many people noted, they *had* a list of unresolved bugs before release. How can anyone believe that it is wise to release a game without first resolving all known pending things? "Oh, this car has a shift on the steering wheel, we know that, but we will correct as soon as possible". No, it makes no sense, no one has to accept a defective product for any reason. Especially when the producer *already* knew in advance that the product was defective.

And we're not talking about one or two bugs here, but a lot, this is a game that is famous now for beign buggy. If these bugs were all discovered *after* the launch, even then, the developers could act sensibly and recognize, "really, a finished game should not be in this state, we will correct everything as soon as possible, pardon for any inconvenience". Many whiners would continue complaining, but the whole thing would go almost unnoticed. Instead, we learn that the game was released with known bugs, most likely to take advantage of the year-end sales. And she still have the nerve to play the victim when buyers complain about the situation. Reporting that review of the banned guy was the finishing touch of a disaster waiting to happen.

And to be honest, people buying into Early Access/KS Alpha/Beta are usually prepared for bugs. Hell, that guy even openly says so. It's not a big fucking deal as long as they're acknowledged. Maybe the simplest way to address the issue would've been some kind of a "road map", where DB would go over the issues, flag critical/secondary and make an estimate on when they'd be able to resolve at least the most critical shit.

It's not so much the bugs that piss people off, really, I mean fuck, if you played games in the 80ies and 90ies, you'll know what a bugged game really is, but it's more of "We helped you make this, so where are we now in terms of getting this bug-free?". Leaving people guessing is always a bad idea.

 

[Gersen]

What's crazy is that they don't understand why the whole thing is turning into a fiasco. It's not because of that negative review (which every game ends up getting at some point anyway). It's because they're publicly throwing a tantrum over it. Way to go if you want negative attention, but not the smartest way to run a business.

 

[Drowed]

It's not so much the bugs that piss people off, really, I mean fuck, if you played games in the 80ies and 90ies, you'll know what a bugged game really is, but it's more of "We helped you make this, so where are we now in terms of getting this bug-free?". Leaving people guessing is always a bad idea.

True, yeah. But also, the point is that different situations bring different expectations.

In the case of EA/Beta, people who intend to participate in these projects normally come already knowing what kind of experience they will find. It's like the fact the game is indie or not: people can forgive certain type of defect in an indie game that they would never accept in games made by other companies. So while Dead State continued in EA, you hardly would see this level of complaint. So that's why I found kinda risky this idea of leaving Early Acess to try to get the year-end sales. They should really be needing the money, I think.

The same thing can be said about the games of the 80s and today. Then, as the internet basically didn't exist, the information we had about the games were really limited. (I think I didn't even finish Fallout the first time I played it because of some bug.) You could never be sure that the problem wasn't only with you. In addition, there were no such things as EA, so people didn't know at what stage of the game was before launch. "Maybe the developers didn't know of this bug", this is something we would/could had thought. This isn't the case now, we know that they knew. (And in the case of large companies, we know that games are today an infinitely greater industry, and therefore, they should certainly have the money to do the QA.) So bugs are less forgivable today than in the past.

 

[Drakron]

I mean fuck, if you played games in the 80ies and 90ies, you'll know what a bugged game really is

What?

I dont recall they being incredible buggy back them, heck the game I recall being very buggy was Daggerfall and SUPRISE! decades later Bethsoft games are STILL bugged as fuck, other games? I dont recall TIE Fighter being bugged, I dont recall Pacific Strike being bugged, I dont recall Star Trek: 25th Anniversary being bugged.

How and why is that? Because back then you could not just patch, Internet access wasnt widespread and people had to rely on magazines CDs for patches, of course things started to change when Internet access became common, Consoles first used the "dont worry about hardware/software configurations, just insert disk and press play" ... then they used "dont worry about bugs, just insert disk and play" when Publishers started the "release and patch later" but even that didnt lasted long since thanks to the XBox internal HDD and Internet connection they started to do the same as they did on PC.

Early Access is playing a Beta at best, sure people "get it" but its still fucking paying to be a Playtester and its certainly NOT the same as playing games in the 80's and 90's because you could NOT patch a floppy disk.

Then, as the internet basically didn't exist, the information we had about the games were really limited.

Not really, gaming magazines did and they were far more honest back them ... also the "gamers" were a smaller circle and people did know of things, either in articles or simply by social groups as people did hang around IRL.

We had less marketing for sure but gaming was very niche, mainstream was consoles and even those were niche.

 

[Gragt]

Early Access is playing a Beta at best, sure people "get it" but its still fucking paying to be a Playtester and its certainly NOT the same as playing games in the 80's and 90's because you could NOT patch a floppy disk.

Or even better: some game were released again with bug fixes and a version increment but no patch was ever issued.

 

[Saduj]

I generally don't like criticizing people who are trying to make the kind of games I like to play. But the over the top "why is he trying to destroy meee!!!" reaction to the negative Steam review is just a childish attempt to deflect away from the truth.

I've never seen a game that has zero negative reviews on Steam. One negative review by itself is meaningless. It only becomes important when many people find truth in it. And although I found the reviewer in question to be taking things too personally, I can say that my own experience is proof that the the main criticism behind the review is true.

I had been reading about Dead State for years and decided a long time ago that when the game is released, I would be purchasing it. I didn't follow the early access progress because people are actually releasing games that I want to play these days. Unlike a few years back when I first heard about Dead State, I spend more time playing games than reading about them these days. My general attitude towards Dead State was "I've heard enough. I know I want to buy it. The people making the game know what they are doing and they won't release it until its in good shape."

So when the game was released, I bought it. And then I learned that its a bit of a mess. It is entirely fair to say the release was rushed. And the logical conclusion is that the decision to rush the release is probably due to a desire to generate some income. Worked on me. They released it and I bought it. But I've barely played the game and won't be playing it again for some time. I'll wait for them to fix it and I still expect to eventually enjoy the game.

Had I done more research instead of assuming the game would be playable on release, I would have waited to buy the game. I'm not angry about it but I am disappointed. And its not wrong or unfair for people to be disappointed and to say as much. If the the developers were to acknowledge their mistake, I would be prone to believe that it won't be repeated. Their reaction to entirely fair criticism is a let down.

I and others will be more wary of Doublebear in the future because that is what happens when people make bad decisions and then act in a way that indicates they have no interest in avoiding the same mistakes in the future. And some people are going to voice their disappointment passionately. All the whining is not going to change the fact that this is a completely fair and predictable reaction to their behavior.

 

[Angthoron]

I mean fuck, if you played games in the 80ies and 90ies, you'll know what a bugged game really is

What?

I dont recall they being incredible buggy back them, heck the game I recall being very buggy was Daggerfall and SUPRISE! decades later Bethsoft games are STILL bugged as fuck, other games? I dont recall TIE Fighter being bugged, I dont recall Pacific Strike being bugged, I dont recall Star Trek: 25th Anniversary being bugged.

I remember Diablo being bugged, and I remember a lot of my Famicom games being bugged, and I remember bugs in my Lords of the Realms games, Transport Tycoon had a lovely exploitable bug that converted the cost of a tunnel from positive to negative and was a cash cheat, Sim City, Sim City 2000... They were hardly game-breaking bugs, of course, largely due to the less railroaded nature of the games back then, but there were still quite many to be found here and there. CTDs and BSoDs also count as bugs, and pretty sure I've seen my fair share of those back in 3.11 days. They hardly made me rage then, and they hardly make me rage now. It's cool. If I can get around it, I get around it, if not, well, tough shit. My point, in any case, was that it's not the presence of bugs that makes people annoyed in most cases, but rather, how they're handled. 80s, 90ies, there was usually a sense of finality connected with a bug, you found it now, you'll always find it, ha ha, what patch.

But yeah, people usually delayed launching until they fixed most of the shit that they could find, unlike EA/KS game launches. "Yeah, we'll fix it later, now gotta push it out so we can refill our budget, hurr hoo!". Different philosophy altogether, and, in a way, a display of poor budgeting skills.

 

[LeStryfe79]

Saduj wins the thread.

 

[Jaesun]

I'll wait for them to fix it and I still expect to eventually enjoy the game.

What is broken with it currently?

 

[Liston]

[URL='https://twitter.com/Murderblonde'] Annie V. Mitsoda @Murderblonde · 3m 3 minutes ago
What I said was a reaction to a harasser, and I said it angry - I respect any buyer of my game, not someone who wields threats.
[/URL]

 

[Diablo169]

The "threats" she keeps mentioning was someone threatening to keep bumping a forum thread criticizing the game until the dev's apologised for the shit state of the release version. Don't threaten to bump threads motherfucker!

 

[Chamezero]

It just keeps happening. Just admit you fucked up for god's sake.

 

[Angthoron]

I'll wait for them to fix it and I still expect to eventually enjoy the game.

What is broken with it currently?

The devs, it seems.

 

[Markman]

Threats, harassment. Words so easily used to deflect any kind of criticism.
Btw, review in question cause of them flagging it is the most "helpful" on steam and was found helpful for 1,670 out of 1,782 ppl so far. This morning it was at 700 before the flag. Thats alot of people that will not buy the game cause of their bullshit.

 

[Emily]

I just realized what the biggest issue with this game is
It is a survival game.
With no surviving involved.

 

[Volrath]

It really just should have stayed vapourware

 

[Explorerbc]

In the morning only top 3 reviews were negative, now it seems everybody upvoted the rest of them, and no positive reviews can be found on the front page

 

[tuluse]

DoubleBear better hope that any publicity is good publicity.

This really devolved into a full blown shitstorm fast.

 

[Saduj]

I'll wait for them to fix it and I still expect to eventually enjoy the game.

What is broken with it currently?

https://steamcommunity.com/app/239840/discussions/0/558747922315152775/

Edit - Just read the combat bugs alone to see why its fair to say the game shouldn't have been released.