Game News Dark Souls II Gets Release Date, Collector's Edition, and New Info

[Declinator]

To those of you who played DS rather successfully:
Did you play with keyboard+mouse or gamepad?

I ask because I played with keyboard + mouse (I always do on PC, even if the game tells me otherwise) and ragequit after 6 hours or so. Finally beat some boss, then couldn't find a campfire (note to game designers: ALWAYS have some kind of saving mechanism after a boss) and got killed by random mobs. Lost ~3 hours of trying to beat the boss. Couldn't be assed to march through all the cannon fodder mobs to the boss again. Too frustrating for me.

Maybe it would have been easier with a gamepad? Not that I would ever like to use one on PC (note to game designers: if you do a game for PC, make the PC controls work!), but it would be interesting to know.

You do know that the bosses won't revive even if you die "without saving"? You kill them once and they are dead no matter what. Only the mooks respawn.

I first tried it with kb + mouse but it was horrible. Gamepad is probably considerably easier though I think some mods were supposed to make the kb + mouse better?

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

yo dowg the game autosaves every fucking 5 seconds so you can stop and leave anytime and you wil not lose anything.

and dont be a retard. would u play rts on pad?

 

[St. Toxic]

Don't argue with the moron. His MO is to bullshit you more for each sentence.

Awww, so cute.



Hey Torro, how many hours do you have in DS?

 

[subotaiy]

To those of you who played DS rather successfully:
Did you play with keyboard+mouse or gamepad?

I ask because I played with keyboard + mouse (I always do on PC, even if the game tells me otherwise) and ragequit after 6 hours or so. Finally beat some boss, then couldn't find a campfire (note to game designers: ALWAYS have some kind of saving mechanism after a boss) and got killed by random mobs. Lost ~3 hours of trying to beat the boss. Couldn't be assed to march through all the cannon fodder mobs to the boss again. Too frustrating for me.

Maybe it would have been easier with a gamepad? Not that I would ever like to use one on PC (note to game designers: if you do a game for PC, make the PC controls work!), but it would be interesting to know.

Played with both multiple times; K+m with mouse fix mod is almost as good as gamepad. All the ignorants who complain don't bother to do some minimum research.

 

[toro]

To those of you who played DS rather successfully:
Did you play with keyboard+mouse or gamepad?

I ask because I played with keyboard + mouse (I always do on PC, even if the game tells me otherwise) and ragequit after 6 hours or so. Finally beat some boss, then couldn't find a campfire (note to game designers: ALWAYS have some kind of saving mechanism after a boss) and got killed by random mobs. Lost ~3 hours of trying to beat the boss. Couldn't be assed to march through all the cannon fodder mobs to the boss again. Too frustrating for me.

Maybe it would have been easier with a gamepad? Not that I would ever like to use one on PC (note to game designers: if you do a game for PC, make the PC controls work!), but it would be interesting to know.

The proper DaS thread is here: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/the-dark-souls-discussion-thread.70465/

The vanilla port doesn't have proper support for M+KB and you have to install at least one mod for this (DxFix or another one). Bosses don't respawn.

And chill out, it's ok to rage quit.

 

[Azrael the cat]

I've got no problem with easy 'beginners' sections' in an otherwise hard game. It entices new players in, gives them a taste of the fun mechanics and - ideally - hooks them enough that they'll get into that delicious rage-quit-then-rage-then-restart-then-rage-quit-then-restart-and-learn-more-about-the-game-and-painstakingly-get-better-until-you-beat-the-thing mentality.

In a game that isn't total sandbox, it's arguably poor design to have players face the game's 'true' difficulty before the game hooks them. The old arcade games managed the intro-zone-hook-and-bait magnificently - without that design technique challenging games would never have existed. Give plenty of rage-quit-inducing challenges, sure, but spend 15-20 minutes hooking the player in first. If nothing else, it encourages the 'learn a game and THEN play it' mentality that's needed for a LOT of 'incline' games, not just difficulty-based ones.

 

[praetor]

In that case you misunderstood me, there's only a couple of those in DaS. I meant trick boss in the sense that you're supposed to get discouraged and summon phantoms, but that's when the boss really starts to shine (if you get a balanced team, that is, which is rare) and crushes a lot of noobs with its refocusing on targets.

I only beat it on the second try and thought it was easy, but while I phantomed it for souls and hums I got to see it v.s teams -- that shit is brutal. So you're being tricked in that sense; unless you get op phantoms, which I'm assuming is more common today than when I last played it, you'll have a harder time against it than you would solo. Sure Solare isn't bad, you can use him to get rid of some focus, but since they still do a lot of target switching and burst dmg you'll probably end up with a less predictable win ratio

pretty much all of your retarded BS has been addressed already, but this is another gem that others somehow missed. O&S is very easy with 2-3 players. that was actually the "standard" tactic in the hundreds of coop sessions i've played: one player sticks close to the one the host wants to kill last (for the soul/armour) and keeps him occupied, while the other (2) wail away unimpeded on the other boss. shit's over in 2mins or less

 

[St. Toxic]

It's true, when you have players who know what they're doing. But the aggro switch is what takes unsuspecting players by surprise; other than that, the O&S combo isn't very difficult.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

What does SL1 have to do with skipping enemies? I killed almost everything during my SL1 playthrough

It's a waste of time because you won't be using the souls. You just want to get all the necessary gear and onto NG+. SL1 has a limited repertoire of usable weapons and it takes a while before you can get any upgrades. Skipping enemies and boss fights allows the route of upgrades first, to make the rest of the game imba in your favor.

Why would I want to rush to NG+? I did SL1 because I like the game, and wanted to feel challenged while being able to leverage my experience in playing it.

Getting them to attack you from the same direction does not do shit if they decide to use attacks which force you to disengage, like Smough's long shovel.

The pillars are 100% efficient at blocking any attack provided you're outside of swinging range, so the only way you can take damage is if you get flanked. Smough can't do it, Ornstein can; line them up and take them out -- that's it.

I didn't say you were going to get damaged, I said you won't do any damage to them if they decide to use attacks which make it difficult to engage. Not without risk anyway.

You can spend half an hour doing this and barely take off half of Ornstein's hp if their AI doesn't cooperate with you.

If you can do it continuously for half an hour, that just shows the effectiveness of the strategy.

The strategy of "turtle and wait for a perfect opportunity to attack" works against every boss in DS except for 4 Kings. So are all bosses "trick bosses" now, in line with your definition?

What it's really about is being able to identify an opportunity to do damage, and knowing how many hits you can safely get in. Most players take a lot of time before they learn not to be too greedy and are comfortable enough with O&S' movesets to be able to dodge everything effectively and not run out of flasks before it ends just from random hits here and there.

It's true, but that's why this strat is so noob friendly, as it doesn't rely on directly dodging attacks in order to get hits in. Ranged combat makes it a lot easier, but even with melee you're at liberty to simply run up and get a few hits in without taking any damage.

You can run up and get hits in if you know the movesets well enough to know when there's no chance of an immediate followup from either of them. Which takes experience, which is gained from trying and failing. This is true for most bosses, but especially important for O&S because the margin of error is relatively small. Your idea isn't much different from telling a new player to be patient and not rush it, which is very helpful, but nowhere near "solving" the bossfight for a newbie.

 

[thesheeep]

You do know that the bosses won't revive even if you die "without saving"? You kill them once and they are dead no matter what. Only the mooks respawn.

Bosses don't respawn.

I actually didn't know that. Oh, well...

 

[Gurkog]

I see a lot of "my penis is bigger than yours" debates in this thread. Who the fuck cares about level 1 playthroughs?

 

[toro]

I see a lot of "my penis is bigger than yours" debates in this thread. Who the fuck cares about level 1 playthroughs?

I know is a rhetorical question but the obvious answer is: St. Toxic. The guy cannot handle being called on his bullshit.

 

[Gurkog]

If you can't complete something without summoning help you are doing it wrong!

 

[nihil]

Obfuscation of mechanics

Personally, I loved that part of Dark Souls. It gives it a feeling of not knowing what to expect, or even what is possible. It's a sense of mystery I miss in modern games, where you figure out the game as you go along. I had many "oh, I get it!" moments, and I hope Dark Souls 2 has enough new things to give me a similar experience, now that I know how shops, upgrades and everything else works.

It's not much of an obstacle, either, since you don't need to know much about the mechanics to get into the game. The early enemies are weaker than to require stamina management, and you only have your starting weapon, so not much choice there. You just need to be curious and observant throughout.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

I couldnt figure out poise and weapon scaling stat till I was at the chaos bonfire. Everything else was pretty obvious to me.

But I am at O&S now with 2H zweihander. I dunno why but i am finding this a lot easier than I remember. Had forgotten to use estus flak and died after getting giant ornstien to 1/2 without sunbro summ.

When I was a little bitch using pyro... this used to be a lot tougher.

 

[St. Toxic]

Why would I want to rush to NG+?

I don't know why you would want to, but I did it to get all the pvp areas. Finish the game, then spec into some build or other. I mean, we were talking about skipping enemies here and why anyone would want to not kill everything in the game, like if you want to do pinwheel first for instance. It makes no sense to argue that because you personally see no reason to play a game in a particular way, that there aren't valid reasons for doing so.

I didn't say you were going to get damaged, I said you won't do any damage to them if they decide to use attacks which make it difficult to engage. Not without risk anyway.

But that risk is negligible if they're attacking from behind a pillar.

The strategy of "turtle and wait for a perfect opportunity to attack" works against every boss in DS except for 4 Kings. So are all bosses "trick bosses" now, in line with your definition?

I already explained what I meant by "trick boss". That isn't it.

You can run up and get hits in if you know the movesets well enough to know when there's no chance of an immediate followup from either of them. Which takes experience, which is gained from trying and failing.

If you can circle them around pillars for half an hour without taking any damage, you don't need to fail to study their movesets. What is this I don't even

This is true for most bosses, but especially important for O&S because the margin of error is relatively small. Your idea isn't much different from telling a new player to be patient and not rush it, which is very helpful, but nowhere near "solving" the bossfight for a newbie.

I've guided friends through the fight before. If you can play DS for the first time and beat a supposedly difficult mid-game boss without any particular effort, I'd say it constitutes as "solving" the bossfight for a newbie.

I see a lot of "my penis is bigger than yours" debates in this thread. Who the fuck cares about level 1 playthroughs?

Sounds like small penis complex. SL1 runs aren't particularly difficult, so there isn't anything special about them.

I know is a rhetorical question but the obvious answer is: St. Toxic. The guy cannot handle being called on his bullshit.

Keep it up. Every time you "call me" on my "bullshit" it merely solidifies how clueless you are.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Why would I want to rush to NG+?

I don't know why you would want to, but I did it to get all the pvp areas. Finish the game, then spec into some build or other. I mean, we were talking about skipping enemies here and why anyone would want to not kill everything in the game, like if you want to do pinwheel first for instance. It makes no sense to argue that because you personally see no reason to play a game in a particular way, that there aren't valid reasons for doing so..

No. What I said, was that being SL1 and skipping most enemies aren't necessarily related. It sounds like you agree with me though, which is great!

stuff

To put it simply, I don't think that being able to safely run around a pillar for an hour while occasionally hitting a boss once or twice, qualifies that boss as a "trick boss". In fact, I find this opinion to be fucking retarded, and against all reasonable use of the word "trick". If you want to stand by it though, that's fine as well. This is the Codex after all.

You've piqued my interest somewhat though. Are there any videos of people doing this on youtube or twitch? Surely such a foolproof method must have a huge following amongst terrible players.

 

[St. Toxic]

No. What I said, was that being SL1 and skipping most enemies aren't necessarily related. It sounds like you agree with me though, which is great!

Well no, skipping isn't strictly necessary; sl has nothing to do with whether you can beat an enemy or not. But there are plenty of reasons for doing so. For instance, if you want to get invaded in the sewers or at the starting keep, but want gear advantage, you can take alt. paths to get past the areas without beating any of the bosses.

To put it simply, I don't think that being able to safely run around a pillar for an hour while occasionally hitting a boss once or twice, qualifies that boss as a "trick boss".

What I meant by trick here, again, is that summoning additional phantoms presents another hazard that often ends up being just what crushes unsuspecting players, which is unpredictable target switching. It's not a "trick boss" in the sense ceaseless is, for instance.

In fact, I find this opinion to be fucking retarded, and against all reasonable use of the word "trick". If you want to stand by it though, that's fine as well. This is the Codex after all.

I think there are several acceptable uses of the word "trick" in connection to a boss. You can have a trick-boss which looks legit but in essence poses 0 threat -- that's a trick. You can have a boss that tricks players into killing themselves -- that's a trick. And what about a boss that easily falls to a simple trick on the part of the player? I think these all qualify as valid uses.

You've piqued my interest somewhat though. Are there any videos of people doing this on youtube or twitch? Surely such a foolproof method must have a huge following amongst terrible players.

Don't know. I remember seeing some guy doing a bow-only run without using auto-targetting; if he's smart about it, his S&O fight should show off what I've been talking about, because it gives you a lot of free shots. Other than that, no idea.

 

[Declinator]

I think there are several acceptable uses of the word "trick" in connection to a boss. You can have a trick-boss which looks legit but in essence poses 0 threat -- that's a trick. You can have a boss that tricks players into killing themselves -- that's a trick. And what about a boss that easily falls to a simple trick on the part of the player? I think these all qualify as valid uses.

0 threat bosses being trick bosses seems far-fetched even if they "look legit". True King Allant a trick boss? I don't think so even though there was considerable anticipation build on it.
There may technically speaking be a trick involved but that does not make it a trick boss as far as the usual definition of trick bosses go (or rather the definition as far as I've understood it.)

Psycho Mantis (or whatever his name was) was a trick boss with the things he does to your controller. Also, I would call bosses like the Dragon God or the Bed of Chaos trick bosses.

To me it has to do with a gimmick or a technique that has to be used that is pretty much completely different from the rest of the game.

So while O&S may "trick" you into trying to get help which you say makes it harder (difficult to believe) it doesn't actually make it a trick boss in my opinion.

 

[toro]

You've piqued my interest somewhat though. Are there any videos of people doing this on youtube or twitch? Surely such a foolproof method must have a huge following amongst terrible players.

Don't know. I remember seeing some guy doing a bow-only run without using auto-targetting; if he's smart about it, his S&O fight should show off what I've been talking about, because it gives you a lot of free shots. Other than that, no idea.

Unfortunately for you this doesn't look like a foolproof method but then you don't show any intelligence either.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Psycho Mantis (or whatever his name was) was a trick boss with the things he does to your controller.

Mantis was more of a puzzle boss. There is no trick to it, he's legitimately threatening from the beginning to the end, you just have to survive long enough until you find out how to bypass his invulnerability (or wait until the Colonel tells you, which is what I imagine most people had to do if they didn't read spoilers)

 

[dunno lah]

Psycho Mantis (or whatever his name was) was a trick boss with the things he does to your controller.

Mantis was more of a puzzle boss. There is no trick to it, he's legitimately threatening from the beginning to the end, you just have to survive long enough until you find out how to bypass his invulnerability (or wait until the Colonel tells you, which is what I imagine most people had to do if they didn't read spoilers)

...or if they played it on PC.

 

[St. Toxic]

Psycho Mantis (or whatever his name was) was a trick boss with the things he does to your controller. Also, I would call bosses like the Dragon God or the Bed of Chaos trick bosses.

I'd agree with that.

To me it has to do with a gimmick or a technique that has to be used that is pretty much completely different from the rest of the game.

So while O&S may "trick" you into trying to get help which you say makes it harder (difficult to believe) it doesn't actually make it a trick boss in my opinion.

Fair enough. What would you call it?

Unfortunately for you this doesn't look like a foolproof method but then you don't show any intelligence either.

Oooh burrrn. He's not doing it right though. You can see him doing a bit of blocking at 1:25:30ish, with S hitting air 2-3 times which is the right idea, but he isn't keeping the distance like he should and he's letting O flank him. At 1:27 he gets the pillar to tank while he heals, but everything else is close range sniping and dodging. He still wins the fight, even though he's pretty sloppy about it; shouldn't take any intelligence to understand what my strat entails from watching his vid.

 

[Servo]

This series really exemplifies the power of hand placed, planned content, and open world mechanics. Bethesda would do well to follow suit.

I lol'd at this

Bethesda made infinite money with Skyrim. They won't be changing a thing.

I found Dark Souls way easier than Demon's Souls because of this:

playing similar game for the second time is easier because you already have an good idea how shit works. DS seems easier if already played DeS, and vice versa.

Also because of estus flasks and NPC white phantoms. Bonfires aren't as frequent as some people say, and you're likely to run out of spells on a mage build until you get enough souls to stock up.

The intended purpose of the health decrease is obviously to make being in Human form, as opposed to the Hollow form, more important in the game. In the first Dark Souls, being in Human form was irrelevant aside of the online aspect, which was clearly in conflict with the fiction of the game and was rightly considered a step down from Demon's Souls both narratively and mechanically.

I thought you couldn't be invaded in soul form in Demon's Souls either, no?

 

[Jasede]

Correct, you can not be invaded with halved health in Demon's Souls.