From Software Dark Souls 3

[Lyric Suite]

It gets worse:



I'll never be able to play Dark Souls again.

 

[Lyric Suite]

I can't even.

 

[Lyric Suite]

meme'ing should always be in english :/

Hey, somebody heard you:

 

[aweigh]

based, english is the best language in the world.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's not as funny in English.

 

[Curratum]

Just finished a halfway NG+ run of DS3, right after doing a full playthrough of 1 and 2.

The chief reason why 3 is the weakest of the 3 games, by a long shot, is that it's actually Bloodborne in a very transparent disguise. Enemies have infinite combos and stamina, which stun-locks you for upwards of 2-3 seconds, dealing hilarious damage and often killing you because you mis-timed one roll or because of the seemingly infinite run-up many attacks have. It's a dramatically different game, one that might have its own niche, audience and merits, but also one that should not have been sold under that name.

That's without even mentioning the fact that upwards of 50% of all armor sets are imports from the previous two games and the game is tripping over itself to show you how cool DS1 was and how much you loved it, to the point where it's nauseating.

 

[Curratum]

Just killed the Twin Princes finally. I think this might be my most hated fight in all of Dark Souls franchise so far. There is nothing super difficult about any particular aspect of it, I can dodge any single attack, but the fact that it comes with 2 phases, and drags out forever, and has all these bullshit things that eventually "catch" you, and can easily one-shot you (teleport, losing targetting, alternating between delayed and super fast attacks, multiple spells/attacks at the same time, etc), just makes it so retarded.

People are unwilling to admit it because this would mean DS2 is somehow superior, but a big part of DS3, including a fair number of its bosses, are, for the lack of a better word, retarded.

 

[Somberlain]

Classic Porky Dark Souls experience with the "it took me a month to beat Pinwheel but it wasn't difficult, it was just boring".

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Yeah, without a doubt, Dark Souls 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dark Soul 2 >>>>>>>>>Dark Souls 3

Speaking of which, trying to get through Soul of Cinder now to get this over with, and this is another head-scratching fight. I think it won't be as bad for me as Twin Princes (already got him down to half health in second phase once), but so annoying... He has like 400 different attacks, and many are so OBVIOUSLY meant to confuse you (super fast flaming slash vs suuuperrrrr delayed flaming slash, etc), they are just trying too hard. You can't really block him with a shield with most builds, his never ending attacks will just eat through your stamina, so you have to roll, and unless you have great reflexes, it's all RNG. I basically just started to panic roll every time, and then if he delays, I roll again (and sometimes again), seems to produce the best results, but still fairly RNG.

 

[Curratum]

Yeah, without a doubt, Dark Souls 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Dark Soul 2 >>>>>>>>>Dark Souls 3

Speaking of which, trying to get through Soul of Cinder now to get this over with, and this is another head-scratching fight. I think it won't be as bad for me as Twin Princes (already got him down to half health in second phase once), but so annoying... He has like 400 different attacks, and many are so OBVIOUSLY meant to confuse you (super fast flaming slash vs suuuperrrrr delayed flaming slash, etc), they are just trying too hard. You can't really block him with a shield with most builds, his never ending attacks will just eat through your stamina, so you have to roll, and unless you have great reflexes, it's all RNG. I basically just started to panic roll every time, and then if he delays, I roll again (and sometimes again), seems to produce the best results, but still fairly RNG.

The issue is not that it has 1000 attacks, the issue is that you can dodge everything, forever, only it will take you literally 30 minutes to kill it. And it's not a game of skill, it's a game of nerves for the most part, and endurance. Very Japanese, I suppose.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The issue is not that it has 1000 attacks, the issue is that you can dodge everything, forever, only it will take you literally 30 minutes to kill it. And it's not a game of skill, it's a game of nerves for the most part, and endurance. Very Japanese, I suppose.

Wait until you get a little older. Maybe in my 20s I could, but now, I cannot dodge/parry stuff that has different attack speeds. For instance, if something attacks very fast, I can kinda adjust and time it, but if I have to determine in the middle of that attack if it's slow or fast, it's impossible, I will always go too fast or too slow. That's why I cannot into DS3 combat or Risen 2/3 combat, and prefer instead more technique driven combat systems, such as KCD or M&B.

 

[Lyric Suite]

DS2 already had some of that, especially on the DLC bosses. I guess it's the new thing now. You either roll too fast or too slow and it's hard to guess sometimes whether you are supposed to wait or not. On Sir Alonne i defaulted to using a shield as a safety net in case i didn't roll fast enough because i was expecting a delayed attack. It's annoying because then you gotta miss opportunities to hit him while you wait for your stamina to recoup but it's better than the alternative.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

It's a shitty gameplay design targetted at younger people with great reflexes. Those always suck because you are literally cutting off large swathes of population from enjoying your game, and it's completely unnecessary. You can create a great combat system in real time with some timing required but nothing crazy, where the emphasis is more on knowing what to do and how, and not on split second timing.

 

[Lutte]

I'm past my thirties and I'm doing just fine. You just don't have the motivation to learn. (incidentally, kids are more willing to retry again and again when they fail at a game, I believe)

Some of the late DS3 bosses and DLC content can be difficult, but it's not arcade hard.
Soul of cinder is one of the easier bosses of DS3, so I don't know wtf you're doing. Yes, he has many more attacks than other bosses. But that doesn't make him hard. They're not terribly difficult to avoid, some of his attack forms make him easier rather than harder, like his spellcaster form, as they're based on player archetypes and spellcasters have always been free kills in DS3 invasions. He's a bit of a mix between fighting an unparriable gwyn, and fighting player invaders.

Of the main game bosses, you're already past the trickier ones : Pontiff, Dancer, Oceiros and Nameless King. Although the latter two are optional and you might not have done them, while Dancer can be somewhat cheesed by just having a high damage build by the time you reach her.

I've many things to criticize about DS3 but the bosses weren't one of them. They're easily the best the series had to offer. Unfortunately everything else about the game was trivial garbage. Maps designed with very open spaces and enemy placement that overall didn't offer much of a roadblock and few potential combos against you with environmental hazards (two standouts though. Irithyll and the dungeon were well designed and trying to skip past the enemies there without knowing the level well can end you killed fast). First playthrough felt like I was speedrunning a game I already knew. Uninspired color palette of brown and grey for the whole game, I got tired of this shit really fast too. Then all the rehashing of previous games, the dick sucking of DS1, the nexus firelink shrine and its maiden in black firekeeper winkwink DeS and so on. The shitty weapon balance that made using anything other than straight and curved swords feel weak. The crappy spellcasting.

DS3, like Sekiro, is a game I would fancy a lot more if it was honest with itself and played like a pure boss rush game and you removed every other element of the game, including the maps themselves. Clearly most of the effort was put into making those fights great and it does show as replaying older souls games I feel like sleeping through most boss fights.

DS2 will remain my favorite souls game for being the one with the most average lows (although it doesn't reach the peak of others too). Doesn't have the utterly shit midgame that was DS1 post anal londo, has actually interesting levels to traverse unlike DS3, and while it has one too many trivial boss fights, it somewhat makes up for it with the cooler ones (smelter, NG+ lost sinner, looking glass, Darklurker and DLC bosses). And highest variety of viable, fun builds to experience the game anew in multiple playthroughs.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Soul of cinder is one of the easier bosses of DS3, so I don't know wtf you're doing.

Let's do a random google search, "DS3 boss difficulty rankings":

First result: https://goombastomp.com/dark-souls-iii-bosses-ranked-order-difficulty/
Soul of Cinder is 2nd most difficult boss (The most difficult among required).

Second result: https://gamevoyagers.com/dark-souls-3-bosses-ranked-difficulty/
Soul of Cinder is 5th most difficult boss (The most difficult among required, non-DLC)

Conclusion: Lutte is an idiot that once again tries too hard.

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's a shitty gameplay design targetted at younger people with great reflexes. Those always suck because you are literally cutting off large swathes of population from enjoying your game, and it's completely unnecessary. You can create a great combat system in real time with some timing required but nothing crazy, where the emphasis is more on knowing what to do and how, and not on split second timing.

I think it's more that they are looking for ways to challenge people from various aspects in order not to make the formula stale, and in a system as complete as that of Dark Souls the only way to go is fill up all the nook and crannies of the system with tricks.

Not sure how far they went with it in DS3, but at least on DS2, it still falls onto the "git gud" aspect of the series, in the sense that at first you just rage and think it's all bullshit but then once your fingers start memorizing the patterns and you start finding the best ways to avoid the attacks it becomes doable. Like the Fume Knight, which made me foam at the mouth at first as i could barely get past the first stage and then the second state he pulls out some bullshit that made me quit the game for a few hours. Then, suddenly, as i worked to understand how the second stage worked, the first stage seemed easy and routine.

Thus, so far, i have no issues with it. I'll report when i get into DS3 if they pushed this to the point it becomes about RNG (where you absolutely cannot predict the kind of attack you gonna get which means it's all about luck), which i agree is complete bullshit. The only RNG i experienced so far was in Elana, since out of her three summons Veldstat was definitely the worst and i had one where she summoned him five times in a row, where at that point i just gave up. Then on the next fight she just summoned skellies and finally pigs (?!?) which is when i killed her. That was indeed kinda of random.

 

[Curratum]

Let's do a random google search, "DS3 boss difficulty rankings":

The first ranking is a joke. How is Abyss Watchers higher than Pontiff? I do Watchers on my first try on most my playthroughs, but I don't even think I ever killed Pontiff without summons.

By the way, just got to Pontiff. Man, what a shitty game. The boss can do an eleventy hit combo and you have to roll through all of those. How is rolling like a fuckwad through an endless enemy combo good gameplay?

How is wakeup roll mashing a good mechanic? Because you sure need to do it because a bunch of enemies, even regular ones, have strings that hit you on like the third frame of your wakeup and if you don't roll-mash on wakeup, you get killed / stunlocked.

Fuck this game in general and fuck the bullshit cult to Miyazaki people have constructed.

 

[Lutte]

Soul of cinder is one of the easier bosses of DS3, so I don't know wtf you're doing.

Let's do a random google search, "DS3 boss difficulty rankings":

First result: https://goombastomp.com/dark-souls-iii-bosses-ranked-order-difficulty/
Soul of Cinder is 2nd most difficult boss (The most difficult among required).

Second result: https://gamevoyagers.com/dark-souls-3-bosses-ranked-difficulty/
Soul of Cinder is 5th most difficult boss (The most difficult among required, non-DLC)

Conclusion: Lutte is an idiot that once again tries too hard.

>random lists pulled from the gaming equivalent of female magazines

ok retard

Meanwhile I've died so, so many times to nameless king, when I did vanquish him, it was only a few hours before I'd reach the end of the game :

I even took a few breaks between NK attempts. As in not playing the game for a few days. Soul of Cinder didn't even register.

 

[cvv]

Yep, never beat Princes solo, never beat Pontiff solo.

How fucking infuriating is it when you have 20 tries at Pontiff with your Knight build, then you respec and have another 10 tries with your mage build and you're ready to throw your monitor through your closed window.....and then you watch someone doing a blind first run and he beats him second try, while absent mindedly commenting about the ball game he saw last night.

 

[Silverfish]

The issue is not that it has 1000 attacks, the issue is that you can dodge everything, forever, only it will take you literally 30 minutes to kill it. And it's not a game of skill, it's a game of nerves for the most part, and endurance. Very Japanese, I suppose.

Or, alternatively, you could nab a weapon with the perseverance skill and bully him into submission.

By the way, just got to Pontiff. Man, what a shitty game. The boss can do an eleventy hit combo and you have to roll through all of those. How is rolling like a fuckwad through an endless enemy combo good gameplay?

You don't have to roll through every hit of his big boy combo. Sulyvahn's tracking can be a pain, but some of the hits in his string have pretty poor range to balance it out. He's a lot like Capra Demon or Artorias and falls victim to the same circle-strafing strat that they do.

 

[praetor]

just to illustrate how people perceive difficulty different in Souls: i think the Twins are one of the easiest fights in the game and i honestly cannot comprehend how can anyone find it difficult (wait there with your retadred ratings. i honestly do not mean this as a "lol, i'm so gud u all noobs" or that kind of shit), i seriously think they're almost as easy as Pinwheel (again, not trolling or anything. stay with me). i also think NK is awesome (past the annoying dragon fight) and not terribly difficult, and Champion is my 2nd favourite fight in the game (after NK)

but i spent more time on that final transformer cunt than i'd care to admit, the ugly blob of infinite ICBM arrows made me almost brake my gamepad a couple of times, and that pontiff cocksucker can go fuck himself and the first time i got to him i literally spent 2 days at that infinite combo piece of shit and it was the first time ever the thought of ragequitting crossed my mind in all of Soulsborne.

but, to reinforce the point that DS3 is a bit too much like Bloodborne... you know what's the most difficult encounter in the game? the 2 beasts in the water near the Deacon (and i mean that as a "fair" fight without cheesing them with arrows and shit)

 

[Strange Fellow]

Everybody has different bosses that they found particularly hard or easy. I beat Champion Gundyr on the second try. The hardest boss in the game is that witch in the woods with the big hat.

 

[toro]

It's a shitty gameplay design targetted at younger people with great reflexes. Those always suck because you are literally cutting off large swathes of population from enjoying your game, and it's completely unnecessary. You can create a great combat system in real time with some timing required but nothing crazy, where the emphasis is more on knowing what to do and how, and not on split second timing.

It's shitty gameplay design period.

Yep, never beat Princes solo, never beat Pontiff solo.

How fucking infuriating is it when you have 20 tries at Pontiff with your Knight build, then you respec and have another 10 tries with your mage build and you're ready to throw your monitor through your closed window.....and then you watch someone doing a blind first run and he beats him second try, while absent mindedly commenting about the ball game he saw last night.

Spoiler

there is a shield with 100% physical and 85% fire resistance ... just use it once

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I actually think the most difficult encounter in DS3 are those Cathedral Knights with Greatswords outside of Ocelot's room. I don't think anyone ever beats them, people just run past them into the room. Their combination of speed, range, power and stamina is insane.

 

[Lutte]

You don't have to roll through every hit of his big boy combo. Sulyvahn's tracking can be a pain, but some of the hits in his string have pretty poor range to balance it out. He's a lot like Capra Demon or Artorias and falls victim to the same circle-strafing strat that they do.

To illustrate.
Pontiff, like many of the spammer, has lesser tracking ability. Not only that but he's one of those bosses that don't require a heavy shield to be able to effectively block them if you're really suffering that much.

He can also be tanked through with pyromancy :

but, to reinforce the point that DS3 is a bit too much like Bloodborne... you know what's the most difficult encounter in the game? the 2 beasts in the water near the Deacon (and i mean that as a "fair" fight without cheesing them with arrows and shit)

Those guys are really mean little shits. I just go for bumrush one of the two after pulling with arrows without aggroing both because it's just too unmanageable.
You forgot another infuriating mob that is on par with harder bosses and could have been the worst bosses of the game if they were given enough hitpoints :

If they had been legitimate bosses with the hp values that comes with the area difficulty (and thus general weapon upgrade) I might have uninstalled the game.
These guys are what I really think of when I hear about DS3 attack spam, along with the spear+shield lothric knights.