D&D Killed CRPGs

[bryce777]

I like the new stuff, but they do not balance stuff out enough when they add it, and it is becoming very munchkinny and stupid.

 

[Xi]

I like the new stuff, but they do not balance stuff out enough when they add it, and it is becoming very munchkinny and stupid.

Overly Drawn out, but what else can they do to keep making money? Wait! They could start another franchise!

I think all that Satan worship DnD gossip back in the day created a cult classic. All they need to do is get some religious zealots frantic enough and it will pay off in 20 years.

Modern DnD seems to be more about the rules then the actual game. I'm saying that having not played it in years though. Just seems to be the nature of things.

I remember being wowed by the power of dragons! In the latest editions they might as well have rainbow homosexual dragons. The wow factor is still there but it just doesn't last as long. It's been utterly rehashed and changed that it no longer represents something worthwhile in my eyes. It's time for some of that good old newness factor.

The funny thing is that the first company to get it right will make more money then the other companies. Money being all that encompasses the minds of companies these days.

Fuck it.

 

[bryce777]

"Modern DnD seems to be more about the rules then the actual game."

Another big problem is, they just aren't as creative as gygax. Greyhawk motherfucking rocks!

Now all they do is take the gayest setting possible, rob the good stuff from the old dnd and cram it down people's throats til you can't take it, even when it makes no sense. Beholders and drow, anyone?

 

[Xi]

Any franchise that loses its origional design team, Fallout ~ good example anyway, is destined to become something completely different.

Once you start swapping developers you lose the vision. So now we have these meandering idiots trying to fathom someone elses dream.

It's like taking Albert Einstein's Theory of Relativity half-finished and giving it to some school kid and saying "You make sense of this!"(Interestingly, Einstein pretty much did that - but that's beside the point!)

I believe that the industry is crammed full of pencil pushers who look great on paper and have "experience" but lack any real vision or desire to become the total geek that it takes to make a real RPG. You really have to dig deep, give up your life, and spend your days lost in alternate reality to get anywhere.

It's become another day job it seems. No offense either, there are plenty of extremely capable people out there. Mostly never given a chance. Business generally rules out talent in favor of fake credentials it seems.(Not that credentials are completely unimportant!)

It's time to search the basements of elderly couples and drag those 45 year old kids into the sun. They are the only ones that can do it! Ok.....ok maybe not.

 

[bryce777]

"It's time to search the basements of elderly couples and drag those 45 year old kids into the sun. They are the only ones that can do it!" LOL!

Timothy Perkins, the time has come. You are the Chosen One, and you will lead us into a new era of gaming. Or we will shoot you in the head.

 

[Section8]

Speaking of interesting settings (and prompted by talk of Looking Glass in another thread), what did those who played this little gem think of it?

It's a game that I've only laid hands on recently, and it seems very promising, but it also seems like the sort of game I'd have to sit down and play without too many distractions just to keep my bearings. The concept is pretty fantastic, and the engine as solid as it ever was.

I did play the first one quite a bit and really enjoyed it. My biggest memory was the great item interactions, like making gunpowder, weapons and such. I also seem to remember thinking Warren Spector was pretty cool, without having any clue he was a real person.

 

[Xi]

Our hero!

 

[Shinan]

d20 kills RPGs.

For CRPGs, I don't really know, I'm starting to feel like DnD in CRPGing has run its course and developers are experimenting with other settings and other rulesets. Unfortunately many rulesets are still based on the DnD basics but I'm sure they'll grow out of it sooner or later. Of course this is all stuff that will cater to the console market, which means more apparent simplicity (few visible stats) and more game (twitch, twitch).

What DnD and Tolkien probably did was kill off fantasy. There are hundreds of Tolkien rip-offs in fantasy literature and DnD enforces that stereotype. Of course times go on and the people that played DnD and read Tolkien side by side try to avoid that nowadays and we get instead Fantasy based on Lovecraft, Peake and Moorcock. Game developers are usually a couple of steps behind and executives that wants a selling game even more so. Which means that games are still stuck in the DnD-phase for a bit but it'll grow out of it.

It'll also grow out of the RPG-phase, because CRPGs just aren't worth it. CRPGs can never be anything but a poor substitute.

 

[Twinfalls]

Martian Dreams was a great game, and it was a breath of fresh air from the usual traditional fantasy. So was The Savage Empire, for that matter.

Martian Dreams was pretty light on combat and the role of character advancement, IIRC. Could almost be considered an "Adventure" game by some folks. My only complaints about the game are that the landscape was utterly dull and repetitive, consisting almost entirely of red sand and rock tiles. Yes, that's probably accurate as to how the surface of Mars looks, but it makes for very dull exploration. A more modern engine would probably allow for a more varied look to the landscape; I'm thinking along the lines of Geonosis in Attack of the Clones. Later in the game, you could use the canals for fast travel between set locations, but there was still a lot of backtracking through boring red flatlands. I remember it being fairly easy to get lost, as there weren't a lot of distinctive landmarks.

Still a classic game though.

It's a game that I've only laid hands on recently, and it seems very promising, but it also seems like the sort of game I'd have to sit down and play without too many distractions just to keep my bearings. The concept is pretty fantastic, and the engine as solid as it ever was.

I did play the first one quite a bit and really enjoyed it. My biggest memory was the great item interactions, like making gunpowder, weapons and such. I also seem to remember thinking Warren Spector was pretty cool, without having any clue he was a real person.

Interesting comments. The verdict out there seems pretty unanimous - it was a terrific game. So I wonder why it completely tanked...

It had the Ultima name and engine. And was made in the 'Golden Era'..... that time that VD puts so eloquently as when 'only intelligent people had computers'.

Is it possible that flights of fancy which genuinely differed from the usual fare, were met with disinterest from the rpg buying public - even back in those hallowed years?

I've just grabbed it - having Warren Spector as one of the party members is not only very amusing, it's inexplicably very cool....

 

[bryce777]

I played them both and liked them both - the martian one was better, I thought, because it was harder for me to get into all the 'tribal' stuff in the dinosaur one. Probably they come pretty close, along with serpent isle, to belonging in the perfect game thread.

I liked the main ultimas more, and they had more effort in them, but these were quite solid int heir own right and had no signifigant flaws, really.

 

[Section8]

Interesting comments. The verdict out there seems pretty unanimous - it was a terrific game. So I wonder why it completely tanked...

It had the Ultima name and engine. And was made in the 'Golden Era'..... that time that VD puts so eloquently as when 'only intelligent people had computers'.

Is it possible that flights of fancy which genuinely differed from the usual fare, were met with disinterest from the rpg buying public - even back in those hallowed years?

It's entirely possible. It was after all, a time when the Gold Box series was going strong, Ultima itself was doing likewise, the Quest for Glory series was kicking off, and also, basically any other game released within the last 5-10 years wasn't instantly dismissed for being behind the curve.

So, given that RPG fans of the Sword/Sorcery/Dungeon/Dragon persuasion were being well looked after, there wasn't much need to step out of the "comfort zone" just to get your RPG fix.

I think it's a compound problem. Between the ample supply of traditional RPGs, and the typically negative reaction to the unfamiliar, then I think that pretty much assure a less than warm reception.

I don't really think the gaming community was any less fickle in choosing games back in the day, it was just that once they had an intelligent and challenging prospect before them, they rose to it, instead of opting for some motherfucking chocolate milk.

But it's not like geeks don't have their own ideas of what's cool and what isn't. The concept of a Victorian Era Mars landing styled after classic SciFi adventures is probably more for literary geeks who want to live out something a bit Jules Verne, than it is for RPG geeks.

It's an interesting point to note though, and it's been too long since the Codex's last "was the 'Golden Age' really all that special?" discussion.

I've just grabbed it - having Warren Spector as one of the party members is not only very amusing, it's inexplicably very cool....

He also gets a more easter eggish appearance in Ultima Underworld, as a spectre called Warren.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Gygax had never read Tolkien when he created D&D. His main source was Michael Moorcock. I really liked the Lord of the Rings, but you have to read the Silmarillion to really understand the universe he created. The best writer I have ever read though is Lord Dunsany.

I was in the middle of Martian Dreams when I got Gothic 2. It seemed pretty interesting. Of course I've never actually finished any Ultima game, to my great shame. I had most of the virtues of the avatar in 4 when someone saved over my game, I got to the second of third level of Underworld before switching to Martian Dreams (figuring it would be shorter and I'd get right back to U:U) and I never even left the first town in Ultima 7 (just tested it out to see if it worked).

 

[Twinfalls]

He also gets a more easter eggish appearance in Ultima Underworld, as a spectre called Warren.

Funsters. Where was the Abbey in Thief called "Douglas" ?