Incline D&D games really should all come with module editors like NWN

[FriendlyMerchant]

Imagine if Kingmaker and Wrath, or any other D&D game with a good combat system came with a powerful module maker like NWN. I can't think of any better idea than developing one to go with a well performing game. In spite of NWN's boring clunky gameplay, it resulted in a bunch of modules to download and quite a bit of longevity for the game as you can download new modules when you get tired of the terrible OC.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

nwn2 does, kotc2 does, solasta does, bg3 will

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

BG3 is trash. Not worth getting for free.

 

[whydoibother]

Imagine if Kingmaker and Wrath, or any other D&D game with a good combat system came with a powerful module maker like NWN. I can't think of any better idea than developing one to go with a well performing game. In spite of NWN's boring clunky gameplay, it resulted in a bunch of modules to download and quite a bit of longevity for the game as you can download new modules when you get tired of the terrible OC.

But then they can't sell bad DLC.

nwn2 does, kotc2 does, solasta does, bg3 will

Divinity Original Sin had a bad module making kit, I played with it a bit and it either hides the power tools somewhere I didn't find, or its not on par.
You need either Warcraft III's World Editor, or Neverwinter Night's DM Tools to make good custom campaigns, not just a map editor with flags.

 

[Old Hans]

Imagine if Kingmaker and Wrath, or any other D&D game with a good combat system came with a powerful module maker like NWN. I can't think of any better idea than developing one to go with a well performing game. In spite of NWN's boring clunky gameplay, it resulted in a bunch of modules to download and quite a bit of longevity for the game as you can download new modules when you get tired of the terrible OC.

I always loved messing with the NWN editor even though I also hated the engine cause the interior rooms were so big and you had like 5 props to work with

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Imagine if Kingmaker and Wrath, or any other D&D game with a good combat system came with a powerful module maker like NWN. I can't think of any better idea than developing one to go with a well performing game. In spite of NWN's boring clunky gameplay, it resulted in a bunch of modules to download and quite a bit of longevity for the game as you can download new modules when you get tired of the terrible OC.

But then they can't sell bad DLC.

You don't know it's bad until someone buys it and reviews it. Trust me.

 

[Tyranicon]

I think most people would agree with you. Personally, having a functional editor would push me from "maybe buy later at sale" to "buy at full price."

Buuuuut that would be incline and we don't do that anymore.

Maybe 70% of the reason I bought Solasta was for the editor, but I haven't even gotten around to trying custom maps. :/

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

See the thing about NWN's editor was that it was super easy to get things going and you was super friendly to work with. Stuff like where D:OS was at launch wasn't friendly at all, in fact, it kind of pushed you out instead of bringing you in with how obscure every thing was.

 

[JarlFrank]

See the thing about NWN's editor was that it was super easy to get things going and you was super friendly to work with. Stuff like where D:OS was at launch wasn't friendly at all, in fact, it kind of pushed you out instead of bringing you in with how obscure every thing was.

It's funny how they made NWN2's editor intentionally harder to use... because NWN1 had so many amateurs releasing modules even shittier than the OC.
So the bright minds at Obsidian figured, if the editor is harder to use you need to spend more time learning it, improving your module making skills in the process.

What it really led to was a lower module output in the community because people understandably don't wanna bang their heads against an intentionally clunky editor.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

See the thing about NWN's editor was that it was super easy to get things going and you was super friendly to work with. Stuff like where D:OS was at launch wasn't friendly at all, in fact, it kind of pushed you out instead of bringing you in with how obscure every thing was.

people who need an easy to use editor aren't going to make anything of value
"b-b-but that's not true!" you say
I merely have to point at the fact that Fallout/2, with no real editor whatsoever, has multiple fan modules worth playing. Probably more than NWN.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

I'm too dumb to use an editor and just wind up making stupid shit like 1000 kobolds.

 

[LibertyRansom]

Yea, would be great if ToEE, Kingmaker, and PoE had easy to use campaign makers. The less captivating parts of those games were the stories/characters.

Unlike some here, I do think ease of use in a campaign creator is key. There are many creators with good thematic story telling ability and/or great tactical minds for encounters who can't be arsed with the autistic level of dedication needed to learn a difficult editor.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

See the thing about NWN's editor was that it was super easy to get things going and you was super friendly to work with. Stuff like where D:OS was at launch wasn't friendly at all, in fact, it kind of pushed you out instead of bringing you in with how obscure every thing was.

It's funny how they made NWN2's editor intentionally harder to use... because NWN1 had so many amateurs releasing modules even shittier than the OC.
So the bright minds at Obsidian figured, if the editor is harder to use you need to spend more time learning it, improving your module making skills in the process.

What it really led to was a lower module output in the community because people understandably don't wanna bang their heads against an intentionally clunky editor.

nwn and nwn2 probably have about the same amount of good mods worth actually playing, nwn just has a lot more really, really bad mods
The Maimed God's Saga
Conan Chronicles
Misery Stone
Black Scourge of Candle Cove
Tears of Ilmarid
Path of Evil

etc

 

[Agesilaus]

Imagine if Kingmaker and Wrath, or any other D&D game with a good combat system came with a powerful module maker like NWN.

It's called Solasta

 

[Viata]

They can't sell DLCs if their games include editors. Simple as that.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

See the thing about NWN's editor was that it was super easy to get things going and you was super friendly to work with. Stuff like where D:OS was at launch wasn't friendly at all, in fact, it kind of pushed you out instead of bringing you in with how obscure every thing was.

people who need an easy to use editor aren't going to make anything of value
"b-b-but that's not true!" you say
I merely have to point at the fact that Fallout/2, with no real editor whatsoever, has multiple fan modules worth playing. Probably more than NWN.

An editor should be fairly easy to use. That way the process of designing thing is streamlined and you can focus on actually designing things instead of trying to get the thing to work. It's part of being a good product.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

See the thing about NWN's editor was that it was super easy to get things going and you was super friendly to work with. Stuff like where D:OS was at launch wasn't friendly at all, in fact, it kind of pushed you out instead of bringing you in with how obscure every thing was.

people who need an easy to use editor aren't going to make anything of value
"b-b-but that's not true!" you say
I merely have to point at the fact that Fallout/2, with no real editor whatsoever, has multiple fan modules worth playing. Probably more than NWN.

An editor should be fairly easy to use. That way the process of designing thing is streamlined and you can focus on actually designing things instead of trying to get the thing to work. It's part of being a good product.

An editor should be difficult to use so that it filters out the idiots, gatekeeping is good.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

They can't sell DLCs if their games include editors. Simple as that.

Editors never stopped people from buying the official modules for NWN, DLC for Skyrim or Fallout 4, or Frozen Throne back when it came out. This just isn't correct.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

See the thing about NWN's editor was that it was super easy to get things going and you was super friendly to work with. Stuff like where D:OS was at launch wasn't friendly at all, in fact, it kind of pushed you out instead of bringing you in with how obscure every thing was.

people who need an easy to use editor aren't going to make anything of value
"b-b-but that's not true!" you say
I merely have to point at the fact that Fallout/2, with no real editor whatsoever, has multiple fan modules worth playing. Probably more than NWN.

An editor should be fairly easy to use. That way the process of designing thing is streamlined and you can focus on actually designing things instead of trying to get the thing to work. It's part of being a good product.

An editor should be difficult to use so that it filters out the idiots, gatekeeping is good.

A screwdriver should just be solid steel bar. You should have to file down the end to get the right shape and size yourself. That way it filters out the idiots. Gatekeeping is good.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

See the thing about NWN's editor was that it was super easy to get things going and you was super friendly to work with. Stuff like where D:OS was at launch wasn't friendly at all, in fact, it kind of pushed you out instead of bringing you in with how obscure every thing was.

people who need an easy to use editor aren't going to make anything of value
"b-b-but that's not true!" you say
I merely have to point at the fact that Fallout/2, with no real editor whatsoever, has multiple fan modules worth playing. Probably more than NWN.

An editor should be fairly easy to use. That way the process of designing thing is streamlined and you can focus on actually designing things instead of trying to get the thing to work. It's part of being a good product.

An editor should be difficult to use so that it filters out the idiots, gatekeeping is good.

A screwdriver should just be solid steel bar. You should have to file down the end to get the right shape and size yourself. That way it filters out the idiots. Gatekeeping is good.

Yes.

 

[Butter]

Retards already get filtered out by graphics. They play NWN instead of FRUA or KotC2.

 

[vortex]

I just want good, great even, D&D game.

 

[Gargaune]

It's funny how they made NWN2's editor intentionally harder to use... because NWN1 had so many amateurs releasing modules even shittier than the OC.
So the bright minds at Obsidian figured, if the editor is harder to use you need to spend more time learning it, improving your module making skills in the process.

That wasn't the intent. The developers never sat down and thought "let's make our tools shittier to filter out the amateurs", rusty_shackleford never worked at Obsidian. A "difficult" toolset like Electron doesn't just set a high bar of entry, it also increases time and labour requirements for skilled users too. What you saw there was a small, unfiltered glimpse into Obsidian's software engineering standards at the time and why they were constantly releasing games held together with spit and duct tape.

The sad part is that they had some good ideas to increase fidelity and flexibility over Aurora, but they fucked up the interfaces beyond any excuse. Electron isn't just harder to learn, it stays more labour intensive even after you've learned its processes, and far more so than would be justified by its upgraded visual standards. Its concept of ergonomics is a runaway freight train filled with flaming dumpsters.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The developers never sat down and thought "let's make our tools shittier to filter out the amateurs", rusty_shackleford never worked at Obsidian

nwn2 would be a much better game if I had

 

[Gargaune]

nwn2 would be a much better game if I had

You say that, but I'm pretty sure you'd have just put a toilet chain in there to undercut my BG3 criticisms.