D&D 5E Discussion

[Rean]

D&D is a high magic setting. There are adaptations of D&D to lower magical settings. Eg: Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea is a much lesser magical setting. Lv cap? 12. Greater daemons tends to have like 8 hit dices. Leveling once takes not only XP but gold for a mentor and weeks of training.

D&D is not a setting.

 

[Cryomancer]

D&D is not a setting.

Yep. I should have used other therm. But you got my point, some groups wanna to rush low levels or even skip it.

Contrary to video games, which are solo experiences, D&D is a group activity, hence something needs to be fun for the group and as longs the group is having fun(DM included), who cares if they are playing as lv 0 slaves, everyone as a furry in the furryland or as literal Gods? Yet some people see D&D like they see a competitive multiplayer shooter.

I don't really care one bit how other people play, except when I dictate how other people should run their games

Then why you are so butthurt by my group rushing earlier levels using RAW to have a quicker leveling process? Which everyone on the group, the DM included din't like that much? I always wanted to play a Planescape adventure but never had the opportunity. If I ever find a group to run it on 2nd edition, guess what. I will play it and Planescape is mostly played on mid levels. I don't care if you believe that I should "quit getting fun" and play in the way that you think that you like.

 

[Stella Brando]

There's no reason to have any races other than humans, no reason to have any classes other than Fighter, no reason to have any subclasses other than Champion, and no reason to have any weapons other than a steel sword and shield.

If you can't make a party of all Human Champion Fighters with swords and shields interesting, then you shouldn't be playing games in the first place.

 

[Larianshill]

I once played in a WoW guild that accurately simulated a military regiment. We all played humans, and the combat system actually allowed even less personalization than playing a champion fighter in 5E. I can still remember what every character was like, more than seven years later. So yes - if you need horns and dragon scales in order for your character to be interesting, you are a poor roleplayer, without a single hint of irony.

 

[Stella Brando]

Yeah, in recent RPG games it seems like everyone is a 'special' character or race.

 

[MajorMace]

Goddamn larpers.

 

[Reinhardt]

Starting with a lv 1 char while the rest of party is lv 4 and a Druid was lv 5 would't be fun for the party or for me. I would be dead weight.

Supra genius intellect wizzord could make them believe your character is actually useful or at least funny and they would carry you.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Starting with a lv 1 char while the rest of party is lv 4 and a Druid was lv 5 would't be fun for the party or for me. I would be dead weight.

Supra genius intellect wizzord could make them believe your character is actually useful or at least funny and they would carry you.

Fake news! True wizards start out as masters of arcane, able to crack the planes with their thoughts! There is no apprentice stage, grovelling to the unwashed peasants!

 

[Reinhardt]

Starting with a lv 1 char while the rest of party is lv 4 and a Druid was lv 5 would't be fun for the party or for me. I would be dead weight.

Supra genius intellect wizzord could make them believe your character is actually useful or at least funny and they would carry you.

Fake news! True wizards start out as masters of arcane, able to crack the planes with their thoughts! There is no apprentice stage, grovelling to the unwashed peasants!

But what if the party consists of his higher level wizard sempais?

 

[Cryomancer]

But what if the party consists of his higher level wizard sempais?

My S&W group had 3 magic users(myself included), one druid and a cleric. Was a very fun game.

There is no apprentice stage

There is apprentice stages. However, if you look to Thay, in order to take the examination to enter into the academy of red wizards, you need to be able to cast at least 4th tier spells. Glantri in Mystara too, has a lot of medium level magic users graduates after the academy, and to graduate and become a Red wizard in Thay, I believe that you must be able to cast 6th circle spells. Szass Tam, the Leader of Thay is a level 29 Necromancer in 2rd edition and CR 31 in 3rd edition. Safiya which is a "mid rank" Red Wizard is lv 18. I don't have the stats to bet, but believe that the weakest Red Wizard of Thay is probably around lv 12~14 which puts his in a similar strength to my end game S&W char.

And as I've said, in average, I've leveled once per 3,5 sessions or per 31 hours of game considering six hour as average session.

 

[Reinhardt]

Nigga, stop being so serious.

 

[Caim]

Wizard supremacy in D&D isn't as awful as it is in World of Darkness.

 

[Larianshill]

World of Darkness is not meant to be played crossover.

 

[Caim]

World of Darkness is not meant to be played crossover.

Agreed, but that doesn't stop the Mage fans from lording it over other people. Especially when they bring archmages into the conversation: those are the most powerful playable group in OWoD and the second most powerful in NWoD/CofD.

 

[Cryomancer]

played crossover.

But still, the closest vampires to mages(Tremere) are by far the strongest clan. Path of Conjuring in P&P allow 1001 utilities for a Tremere caster. GURPS also has very powerful spells. Check GURPS Magic : Artillery spells to see how powerful they are.

archmages

A single archmage can destroy a army of vampires.

 

[Caim]

archmages

A single archmage can destroy a army of vampires.

In OWoD, yes. In NWoD they can rewrite how the vampire template works.

 

[Larianshill]

Agreed, but that doesn't stop the Mage fans from lording it over other people.

That's a bit different from a wizard player lording over his actual party in the game, innit?

 

[Caim]

Agreed, but that doesn't stop the Mage fans from lording it over other people.

That's a bit different from a wizard player lording over his actual party in the game, innit?

Yes, because the wizard actually gets to play his game while Mage players have to sit there furiously jerking off to Dave Brookshaw's (former Mage developer) tweets.

 

[Cryomancer]

The problem of linear warriors, quadratic casters can be easily solved by .... Making warriors quadratic too. PF1e capstone of Slayers is a save or die daily ability. Which casters get on lv 13 and can use much more frequently.

ome of Battle gives a lot of cool powers to martials and tier based power progression too. "but is too flashy", just don't pick desert wind. Combat maneuvers could have levels and don't need to call it "maneuver level" either. For example, monks. You could call lv 1 monk martial arts powers "white belt" powers and a high level "black belt". Things like disarm, knockdown, and other stuff from 3e should not be obtained in feats. Should be something which every fighter can do. Assassins could get alchemy and be able to craft nasty poisons and nasty arrowheads. Move extremely fast each level up gaining more move speed.

On DDO, they gave a lot of cool stuff to maritals and made casters more specialized. For example, Rogues can get assassinate which is the same in power of save or die spells.

 

[WhiteShark]

The problem of linear warriors, quadratic casters can be easily solved by .... Making warriors quadratic too. PF1e capstone of Slayers is a save or die daily ability. Which casters get on lv 13 and can use much more frequently.

ome of Battle gives a lot of cool powers to martials and tier based power progression too. "but is too flashy", just don't pick desert wind. Combat maneuvers could have levels and don't need to call it "maneuver level" either. For example, monks. You could call lv 1 monk martial arts powers "white belt" powers and a high level "black belt". Things like disarm, knockdown, and other stuff from 3e should not be obtained in feats. Should be something which every fighter can do. Assassins could get alchemy and be able to craft nasty poisons and nasty arrowheads. Move extremely fast each level up gaining more move speed.

On DDO, they gave a lot of cool stuff to maritals and made casters more specialized. For example, Rogues can get assassinate which is the same in power of save or die spells.

It's not as simple as giving martials more cool abilities and bringing them up in power to what casters can do in combat. Part of the problem is how, in addition to dominating in combat with their spells, full casters also dominate all other areas of the game because spellcasting has so much utility.

Caveat: I haven't played too much 5E but that was definitely the problem in 3.PF and from what I've seen and heard continues to be a problem in 5E.

 

[Reinhardt]

It's not as simple as giving martials more cool abilities and bringing them up in power to what casters can do in combat. Part of the problem is how, in addition to dominating in combat with their spells, full casters also dominate all other areas of the game because spellcasting has so much utility.

Nigga, it's Victor. What "other areas"?

 

[Cryomancer]

full casters also dominate all other areas of the game because spellcasting has so much utility.

That depends. Bards can be amazing in a heavily social campaign.

 

[WhiteShark]

full casters also dominate all other areas of the game because spellcasting has so much utility.

That depends. Bards can be amazing in a heavily social campaign.

If we're talking 5e, Bards are full casters in that edition, so it's a moot point. If we're talking about 3.PF, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that you will be better off in a social campaign going full caster and maxing diplomacy than you would playing a Bard, unless you take prestige classes to make yourself a full caster as a Bard.

It's not as simple as giving martials more cool abilities and bringing them up in power to what casters can do in combat. Part of the problem is how, in addition to dominating in combat with their spells, full casters also dominate all other areas of the game because spellcasting has so much utility.

Nigga, it's Victor. What "other areas"?

I have no idea who or what Victor is in this context.

 

[Cryomancer]

unless you take prestige classes to make yourself a full caster as a Bard.

I've said giving cool powers. Not limiting it to combat. A Barbarian with 18+ STR should get huge bonuses on intimidate for example and should be able to terrify weaklings just by staring at then.

Shadow Wizards in Athas had some social penalties.

Book : Defilers and PReservers:The Wizards of Athas - page 62.

And every arcane caster in Athas also suffer from a huge problem. PEOPLE HATE ARCANE CASTERS. You can't just spam lightning bolts left and right. You need to masquarede your spells as psionics. Otherwise, a mob can decide to kill you and the veiled alliance which you are a part probably can decide to expel you and kill you if you are in risk of exposing the "cell". At mid levels(9), the memorization hindrance disappears however, the social becomes stronger. Due the fact that Athas lacks weave, memorization and preparation of spells is completely different and more costly and risky. Since paper is a luxury in Athas, spell scrolls are often "improvised" and are extremely rare. Same for spell components. Note that on 2nd edition, magic users has only d4 hit points and a maximum of +1 of con, so a very low level Shadow Wizard can kill himself in the memorization process. Yes, 2nd edition Dark sun is THAT brutal.

I sadly only played as a Wizard in Athas one time in a one shot(and was 3rd edition, not 5th edition). Wizards in Athas are far weaker and less versatile than in Forgotten Realms, Mystara and other settings, but the limitations makes then really interesting to play.

Sadly, 5E is removing score penalties from certain races and going in the opposite direction of "having disadvantages/flaws/problems". Instead of making using fireball indoors more risky, 5E decided to allow pyromaniacs evokers to not deal team damage. And removed the prohibited school rule.


PS : HE is referring to my previous username.

 

[Larianshill]

Group encounters a raven, decides to interrogate it. The druid casts Speak with Animals, it doesn't work. The group immediately begins theorizing as to why. It takes ten seconds for them to realize this means the raven is not an animal, and the next ten minutes are spent theorizing what he might be, and how to reveal its true identity. God, I love invested groups.